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Old March 8, 2019, 07:11 PM   #1
Mike38
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Hawaii wants to abolish Second Amendment.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/07...endment-repeal

I'm missing something here. How do individual states have the right to abolish an amendment to the Federal Constitution? I guess they have the right to change the Hawaii Constitution, but how can they ignore / change / abolish Federal rights?
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Old March 8, 2019, 07:18 PM   #2
Glenn E. Meyer
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The story says they want the consideration of abolishing or changing the interpretation. It doesn’t say they are abolishing it in Hawaii. As far as their tough laws, that is a failure of Federal courts, Congress and the President to act against state laws.
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Old March 8, 2019, 07:39 PM   #3
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It simply says that they wish for Congress to take up legislation to repeal or revise the Second Amendment, which Congress certainly has the power to do, although the bar is very high — 2/3 of both houses of Congress and 3/4 of state legislatures.

Hawaii does not have the power to do any such thing unilaterally, and the link doesn’t suggest that they do. There’s nothing complicated or underhanded about any of this; it’s how our system of government is supposed to function.
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Old March 8, 2019, 10:31 PM   #4
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About every congressional session for the last few decades, a bill has been submitted to abolish the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it's ever made it to a floor vote.

Politicians in Hawaii (or anywhere else) can say anything they want. They can ask for anything they want. What they get is another matter.
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Old March 8, 2019, 11:26 PM   #5
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They are persistent.
(Maybe gunners should avoid Hawaii)
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Old March 9, 2019, 12:33 AM   #6
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I think we should start shipping all these asylum seekers out to Hawaii where the weather is nice and they can live on the beaches until their cases are heard and they are granted their asylum. Got to be safer for them than leaving them in Mexico where there is no 2nd Amendment protections.
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Old March 9, 2019, 08:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Chang’s measure, which has four co-sponsors, would request Washington discuss either scrapping the Second Amendment altogether or clarifying that it only applies to organizations such as state militias.
Chang won election against the only Republican in the state senate. Chang and his co-sponsors are pandering to their anti-gun political base.
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Old March 9, 2019, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
About every congressional session for the last few decades, a bill has been submitted to abolish the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it's ever made it to a floor vote.

Politicians in Hawaii (or anywhere else) can say anything they want. They can ask for anything they want. What they get is another matter.
'About'...is right.
Quote:
Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens called Tuesday for a repeal of the Second Amendment(March 2018). It's an extreme position that no federal lawmaker has supported in the wake of the Parkland shooting, a tragedy that has galvanized a new generation of gun-control proponents.
The last time a member of Congress advocated this approach was in the early '90s when Rep. Major Owens, a six-term congressman from New York, introduced a resolution to repeal the Second Amendment. It's an effort that has gone largely unnoticed, and yet, as we’ve come to realize in the Trump era, history can rhyme and build on itself in fascinating and telling ways.
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Old March 9, 2019, 09:26 AM   #9
Brownstone322
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Hawaii wants to abolish Second Amendment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub View Post
Chang won election against the only Republican in the state senate. Chang and his co-sponsors are pandering to their anti-gun political base.
Yes, it’s a purely political gesture. That should be obvious enough to everyone.

Stunts to actually restrict Constitutional rights — rather than expand them — are relatively rare, but not unheard of. In the ‘90s and 2000s, Republicans in Congress relentlessly pursued the "Flag Desecration Amendment," which was specifically drafted to restrict the First Amendment. The slope is indeed slippery.

Last edited by Brownstone322; March 9, 2019 at 11:42 AM.
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Old March 9, 2019, 11:12 AM   #10
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Not only is it a stunt to pander to voters; but it is a stunt that actually hurts those voters chances of getting any kind of gun control by creating backlash amongst voters who disagree and reinforcing their not-unfounded belief that the goal of gun control is elimination of civilian ownership in its entirety.

It is like politicians on both sides are adopting clickbait culture without any concern for the real world consequences. Of course, he may really believe. I watched a Washington state politician segue from “nobody wants to take your guns” to “of course, no civilian should be able to own guns” in about 60 seconds and without any apparent self-realization that he was saying two contradictory things.
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Old March 9, 2019, 11:52 AM   #11
Glenn E. Meyer
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If forced to say you can keep your guns - it is a sportsmen's O/U skeet killer.
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Old March 9, 2019, 12:46 PM   #12
mehavey
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Quote:
Hawaii wants to abolish Second Amendment
No. . . . They just want to effectively change what the definition
of "is" is. They thereby leave the words -- with changed definition
in place -- to effectively pike those who cite its protections.

Look up the practice of "piking" some time.
Bottom right page 68 here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ya...cution&f=false


.

Last edited by mehavey; March 9, 2019 at 12:55 PM.
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Old March 11, 2019, 04:21 PM   #13
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I live in Hawaii... for now. Just like in most states, the one or two large metropolitan areas dominate the politics. The state is entirely blue and Honolulu politics are just as inbred and ugly as Chicago.

There is a strong gun-owning and absurdly strong hunting culture in Hawaii. Hunting and fishing are a way of life here like nowhere else I've ever been. In Honolulu, it's not political suicide to be anti-gun... but just about everywhere else in the state, and especially so when you leave Oahu, it is. Shootz, you can still own "assault rifles" here. Granted, there's no carry, no Class-3 and the licensing/registration scheme is everything on the anti wish-list short of an actual psych exam, but you can still own some fun stuff and I don't see that changing anytime soon. You've got a few politicians who are going to say the things they need to say to move up in the party, but I doubt that you're going to see anybody push harder than simple rhetoric... the locals just won't stand for it.

Stanley Chang is a Harvard Lawyer who has moved his way up in Hawaii politics... first as a City Councilman, now as a State Senator. If he follows any kind of playbook, he'll might be the State Attorney General next. This gesture is nothing more than to show the DNC that he can be a player.
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Old March 11, 2019, 10:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
I live in Hawaii... for now. Just like in most states, the one or two large metropolitan areas dominate the politics. The state is entirely blue and Honolulu politics are just as inbred and ugly as Chicago.

There is a strong gun-owning and absurdly strong hunting culture in Hawaii. Hunting and fishing are a way of life here like nowhere else I've ever been. In Honolulu, it's not political suicide to be anti-gun... but just about everywhere else in the state, and especially so when you leave Oahu, it is. Shootz, you can still own "assault rifles" here. Granted, there's no carry, no Class-3 and the licensing/registration scheme is everything on the anti wish-list short of an actual psych exam, but you can still own some fun stuff and I don't see that changing anytime soon. You've got a few politicians who are going to say the things they need to say to move up in the party, but I doubt that you're going to see anybody push harder than simple rhetoric... the locals just won't stand for it.

Stanley Chang is a Harvard Lawyer who has moved his way up in Hawaii politics... first as a City Councilman, now as a State Senator. If he follows any kind of playbook, he'll might be the State Attorney General next. This gesture is nothing more than to show the DNC that he can be a player.
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Living in Hawaii... damned if I don't feel like a criminal just to get permission from the gov't to buy a gun.
So where are you in Hawaii? Are you in Maui? My grandparents lived in Oahu so I've been there many times. The last time I was in Honolulu I did see some nice gun ranges. I was once in Maui, its beautiful there.
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Old March 12, 2019, 06:03 AM   #15
mehavey
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I believe recent posters may have mixed up what The People
believe to be in their rightful interests, and what the evolved
Political Class have in store for them.

Check-6 . . . .
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Old March 12, 2019, 11:52 AM   #16
kmw1954
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Check-6. . . .

Not confused at all. Disgusted maybe, confused, NO.

Hawaii is completely isolated from the influx of people to our southern border yet they feel free to comment and judge. Those poor misguided people trying to come here are victimized on both sides of the border.

I think I have a better chance of Open Carry in downtown Chicago than Hawaii does of abolishing the 2nd.
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Old March 12, 2019, 03:28 PM   #17
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A tourism boycott seems to be in order here.
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Old March 13, 2019, 03:59 PM   #18
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"A tourism boycott seems to be in order here."

This is happening everywhere, or has no one noticed? The Leftists are pushing their anti-gun agenda in every state legislature. For them, it's a good strategy - eventually, I fear it will work. The truth is that we as American gun owners, are not pushing back enough.

The Left can put together things like marches, occupy wallstreet, gay pride parades, etc.
We NRA members, GOA members, and gun owners can't seem to muster up the numbers for these kinds of protest rallies that might make a difference.
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Old March 13, 2019, 06:11 PM   #19
mehavey
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As I said earlier . . . Check-6

What you think is 2A support 2Big2Fail, is just an 18th Amendment
away from waking up to blearingly mumble . . "what happened?"
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Old March 14, 2019, 09:29 AM   #20
Glenn E. Meyer
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Can we not go down the 'leftists' are coming trail again. One failure of the RKBA advocates is noninclusive stereotyping like that.

Or else we have the point of this thread and it can be over.
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Old March 14, 2019, 12:55 PM   #21
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A tourism boycott seems to be in order here.
Really?? And just where would you send your tourism dollars?? Europe??? California?? NY?

Point #1
In order for a boycott to have any effect, at all, the people being boycotted have to know they are being boycotted, and WHY!

Point #2
The people being boycotted have to CARE.

Point#3
The people affected by the boycott must be the ones responsible for the reason you are boycotting, or have leverage on those who are.

I don't see any of those applying to the rhetoric (or even the actions) of a few wackjobs in the Hawaiian government.

But, don't let that stop you, just be sure to call the Hawaii tourism bureau and let them know WHY you won't be going to Hawaii and spending thousands of dollars. And get all your friends to call, too. And call EVERY travel agency in the book, too, and explain their loss of business, due to circumstances beyond their control, too.

Make sure they all understand that they lost their commission because of Hawaii's gun politics. (and not for any other reason). AND all the hotels, airlines, and etc., all the way down to the airport taxi service. Make them aware they're losing money, and WHY. Let them call the Hawaii govt and complain, too.

Oh, and better not order that Hawaiian Pizza, and consider a pineapple free diet, and let Pizza Hut, and Dole, know WHY!

I don't hold any great hopes for your success, but good luck, anyway!
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Old March 15, 2019, 08:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
Can we not go down the 'leftists' are coming trail again. One failure of the RKBA advocates is noninclusive stereotyping like that.

Or else we have the point of this thread and it can be over.
Quote:
I don't see any of those applying to the rhetoric (or even the actions) of a few wackjobs in the Hawaiian government.
Just sayin'....
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Old March 31, 2019, 08:16 AM   #23
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Not only is it a stunt to pander to voters; but it is a stunt that actually hurts those voters chances of getting any kind of gun control by creating backlash amongst voters who disagree and reinforcing their not-unfounded belief that the goal of gun control is elimination of civilian ownership in its entirety.
I agree, but the press is not going to give this much coverage. And while polling on specific gun control goes up and down, eg support for "assault rifle" ban going up, and then going down, and now going up; in the last twenty years there has been an under reported broad ground shift on whether the public sees firearm ownership as an individual right. A frontal attack on the second amendment is actually counter to long, medium and short term trends.
but keep in mind this effort can be used for messaging by the gun control lobby: "we just want to be reasonable and ban the 'bad guns' but we can't even get that."

Quote:
The Left can put together things like marches, occupy wallstreet, gay pride parades, etc.
We NRA members, GOA members, and gun owners can't seem to muster up the numbers for these kinds of protest rallies that might make a difference.
1) I like gay pride parades. I also am not in agreement with any number of GOP positions. I am certainly more libertarian than conservative left/right

2) Stop wringing your hands about rallies. Gun ownership is inherently confidential and private. I would say 90% of gun owners I know are not going to go to a rally. The other side also has a lot more money to organize rallies. Competing rallies goes to our adversaries' organic strengths.

Quote:
Can we not go down the 'leftists' are coming trail again. One failure of the RKBA advocates is noninclusive stereotyping like that.
We absolutely need to be inclusive. But it would be as erroneous to ignore the increasing partisan divide demonstrated by actual voting on this subject. Rather than left we should say "Democratic party." Since the objective cold facts on legislation related to gun control -- and surveys on attitudes of voters by party show this issue is more partisan then ever. Republicans are more pro-2A than ever. We certainly have the most pro 2A president.
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