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Old October 20, 2014, 11:58 AM   #26
psyfly
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Single example only and offered as such, but maybe helpful.

I once developed a flinch. I tried an experiment similar to that mentioned by a couple of members above in this thread.

I took my S&W Model 66 and had my 9 year-old son stand behind me and load it, his choice, with a minimum of two and a maximum of four live rounds of either .38 spl or .357 magnum in any order of his choice.

I no longer remember how many times this was repeated, but it was all done in one maybe 1/2 to 1 hour session.

I have never had a recurrence of the flinch and the aforementioned son just turned 41 last August.

YMMV, but it's an easy fix if it works for you.

Will
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Old October 20, 2014, 03:21 PM   #27
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Dry practice, dry practice, and dry practice
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Old October 20, 2014, 03:57 PM   #28
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Watch for muzzle flash.
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Old October 20, 2014, 04:09 PM   #29
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Most of my shooting is long range Sniper rifles and some combat Hang Gun . What I have noticed is when a flinch starts to creep into my shooting its when a lot of thoughts rush in like will I make a embarassingly bad shot or in the case of my heavier hitting calibers expectant recoil and I flinch . My cure is as trained get into your shooters bubble and block out the thoughts and shoot like you train . Carlos Hathcock recomended lots of dry fireing , I do some but its not a regular pratice for me .
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Old October 31, 2014, 09:39 AM   #30
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You'll want to be able to perform the fundamentals reflexively, on demand without conscious thought. You do that by practicing them slowly to develop smoothness. Then smooth becomes fast.

Remember that practice doesn't make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.

Practice also makes permanent. If you keep practicing doing something poorly, you will become an expert at doing it poorly.
This is the best statement in the entire thread. Lots of great suggestions but this point cannot be stressed enough. This statement is true for all forms of practice not just shooting.

Picking a regiment or a system of practice it a huge part of "perfect practice" There are a tons of them out there and if done right you can really improve and eliminate errors and become more proficient.

I would also suggest that you have someone watch and correct your practice if you can. Think of how much more effective a practicing Golf with and swing coach is then practicing without one. You as the participant cannot always identify what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. As your practice get better you can do it more independently.

I personally find that I and other people flinch at the range when they are trying to make that perfect shot and holding waiting for that perfect sight picture anticipating that bang and that wonderful dead center hole which surely is to follow. This is why I think many shooters flinch less at speed then slow fire. Going back to Golf its like looking up to see where the ball went off the tee before you finished your swing.

Here is a link to a good practice regiment for dry firing from Sig which might serve as a good starting point. I like this one because it is not just static dry firing it incorporates drawing the gun, reloading and even movement. Training time is short and varies from day 1 to day 5. It allows you to stay focused on the training without getting bored or fatigued. Good luck

https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/Cms...tice_FINAL.pdf
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Old November 4, 2014, 12:01 PM   #31
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This is an old article, but Ron Avery really breaks down the components of a flinch. I notice a bit of anticipation when I am trying to make very precious shots; this article helped me identify the type of "flinch" and gave a bit of insight into how to reduce the "mental tension" that builds up when looking for that perfect shot.

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...-recoil-happen
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Old November 5, 2014, 12:58 PM   #32
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I have a flinch in which I "push over the top" just before the Moment of Bang, causing me to shoot low.
Lots of people with some good advice on how to fix your flinch. Some of it might work for you.

I'm going to tell you how to fix your problem, and its simple.

AIM HIGHER!


(I'm actually serious)
Fix your flinch, or compensate for it. The important thing is the bullets go where you want them to go. Technique is less important than down range results, isn't it?

It is for me. But then I'm one of the people who sees the sense in the phrase "if its stupid, but it works, its not stupid"....

Good Luck!
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Old November 5, 2014, 01:43 PM   #33
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Is this a problem all shooters deal with to some extent? I am prone to jumping the trigger and I know I am going to do it unless I really concentrate on the mechanics of the shooting process. For me it helps to have light trigger pull so that I can begin to squeeze and have it break at a point where I am surprised. It is one hundred percent mental, ten percent the gun, and takes a hundred and fifty percent concentration on execution. Acknowledging and addressing the issue is key to overcoming it. Fortunately it means more time at the range shooting. Winning!
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Old November 5, 2014, 03:00 PM   #34
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Any good instructor will tell you to learn the right way and not to compensate for it. If you learn to shoot properly you will be more consistent. If you compensate you will continue to have problems that will make you inconsistent.
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Old November 5, 2014, 04:48 PM   #35
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The heavy trigger can cause you to pull your shots if your finger isn't going straight back. That requires training in moving the finger correctly. To me a flinch is related to recoil- if that's the issue then move up not down. Go shoot some 44 mag out of a 4" barrel revolver for a while until you get comfortable and then go back to the Glock.
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Old November 5, 2014, 05:24 PM   #36
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Dry practice, dry practice, and dry practice
I'll go you one better: Do the above, every day, with a Nagant Revolver.

Working out with a clunky 20 pound DA trigger will make everything else seem like warmed butter.
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Old November 5, 2014, 07:30 PM   #37
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Dry practice, dry practice, and dry practice
Nope. Nobody flinches during dry fire practice. It teaches you HOW you're SUPPOSED to do it. You still have to apply what you learned during shooting. That's not automatic.

There's flinch flinching and there's pushing forward with the hand to meet the recoil. They're different. It's possible to shoot with the latter and still shoot fairly well, but not shoot at your best. The first is fatal.

The principle that you concentrate on front sight as you coordinate trigger pull is that you can only concentrate on one thing at a time and can't anticipate recoil. Hence, no flinch. Simple in principle, but you have to work on it.
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Old November 6, 2014, 12:47 AM   #38
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Is this a problem all shooters deal with to some extent?
Yes. Some have more trouble with it than others, but I've never run across any shooter who was totally immune.
Quote:
Nope. Nobody flinches during dry fire practice. It teaches you HOW you're SUPPOSED to do it.
Dry fire helps build proper technique and habits. While it's true that flinching in dry fire practice is uncommon, that doesn't mean dry fire isn't a valuable way to help deal with flinching. It takes more than dry fire to completely solve the problem, but dry fire is very helpful.
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Old November 6, 2014, 05:15 PM   #39
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Flinch cure...maybe

All good replys and certainly good advise. Here's mine: Use ear plugs AND muffs when firing live ammo......really makes a difference. The muzzle blast is what most shooters really fear and doubling up on ear protection can really help with flinching.
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Old November 6, 2014, 06:42 PM   #40
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One non-gunny solution

Take up archery with a recurve bow.

A bow requires more follow-through to be successful.
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Old November 6, 2014, 07:59 PM   #41
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I find myself flinching every now and then,especially
with a new handgun.My cure-all is to have adequate hearing
protection, good shooting glasses and then run thru
a bunch of ammo until I realize, the recoil is just that-Recoil.
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Old November 6, 2014, 08:13 PM   #42
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Take up archery with a recurve bow.

A bow requires more follow-through to be successful
Yes, but think what a flintlock could do for follow thru.

We can post page after page on the subject, but if one concentrates on the front sight until the shot breaks, there will be no flinch--at least not until after the shot. Don't think there's any other solution, though rapid fire tends to eliminate flinch--after the first shot. BUT, if you lose you concentration on the F sight during rapid fire, you miss for another reason--sight not on target.
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Old November 7, 2014, 12:57 AM   #43
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... if one concentrates on the front sight until the shot breaks, there will be no flinch...
That works with a true surprise break for the shot. If the shooter can predict the break then the flinch can still happen even if they are concentrating on the front sight. This is why it can be so hard to convince people they are flinching--they're sure they're concentrating on the front sight right up until the shot. In reality, a tiny fraction of an instant before the shot breaks, they're flinching. You can see it happen on high-speed footage where the shooter consistently blinks just as/just before the hammer falls.

The ball and dummy drill can be a good way to convince someone they're not concentrating all the way up to the shot but are flinching just before/as the shot breaks. Another good way is to ask them what the muzzle flash looks like. If they're not flinching, they should remember seeing the muzzle flash.
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Old November 7, 2014, 09:02 AM   #44
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Nope. Nobody flinches during dry fire practice. It teaches you HOW you're SUPPOSED to do it.
Do it "how you are supposed to do it" enough, and it becomes ingrained, subconscious, and you will not flinch.

It does take a lot of reps to get there, though.

Quote:
Yes, but think what a flintlock could do for follow thru.
This: Some "rocksmashers" have a built in ball and dummy drill ........ and the "clack-f-Boom!" lock time will either teach you to hold still, or you'll NEVER hit anything on purpose.
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Old November 7, 2014, 09:11 AM   #45
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If they're not flinching, they should remember seeing the muzzle flash.
I must be using really good powder/ammo, and/or Im flinching "consistently".

Other than the occasional fireball seen at an indoor range, or in low light out doors, I dont really ever see an "flash".

Excepting out my shorter barreled rifles, of course.
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Old November 7, 2014, 10:36 AM   #46
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Ok this is going to be short and sweet and very simplified because I hate typing and no one wants to read two pages of information on dry fire.

A lot can be cured through dry fire practice if it is done properly and with regularity. The majority of people simply do dry practice wrong or a nicer way to put it, they don’t approach it with the proper mindset. Typically when people do dry practice they simply look at it as doing simple repetitive drills to work on a skill set. That is only one aspect of dry practice. The other and more important aspect is the physical workout to gain proper strength and muscle control that you should be getting from it.

What happens is people do not grip the gun with the same amount of force during dry practice as they do during live fire. As a result they have not trained the proper muscle tension or control to set or lock the muscles into place to prevent movement. If you work harder on setting the grip with strong tension to the point that after a 15-30 minute dry practice session you find you are getting that muscle burn in your hands wrist and forearms you will start to see improvement. It is no easy feat to learn total isolation of the trigger finger, but that is a huge hurtle! This is not just my personal thoughts on the matter; I have had personal conversations with Rob Leatham regarding this.

Also people don’t know how to analyze what they are doing wrong because of lack of body awareness (if you can’t feel it you cant stop it) and improper analysis (I jerked the trigger). People often over simplify what causes their misses by say I jerked the trigger or I anticipated. It takes more than that. First I will tell you, you cannot jerk your trigger finger alone hard enough or fast enough to cause a miss if it is properly isolated. A miss is caused by the other muscles in the hand wrist and forearm moving as you press the trigger. This is where the working out comes into play to train the trigger finger to work independently of the rest of the hand and to keep those muscles set or locked during the entire shooting process.

This is also where a shooting coach helps out! I don't care how good you are you still could use a coach to get better.
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Old November 7, 2014, 08:15 PM   #47
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Other than the occasional fireball seen at an indoor range, or in low light out doors, I dont really ever see an "flash".
I do most of my shooting at indoor ranges and it is certainly easier to see muzzle flash in the lower light typically encountered there.

In bright light, when the muzzle flash isn't visible, the person should concentrate on seeing the gun recoil as the shot breaks.
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Old November 7, 2014, 09:47 PM   #48
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Have someone get the firearm ready for you to shoot while you don't look. Have them leave the chamber empty every couple shots. Works better with a revolver, but may help with an auto.

This technique works on every one I've tried it. I even catch experienced shooters who "don't flinch" flinching. I'll hand them a revolver and say "here, try this out", and watch them when they get to the empty cylinder.
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Old November 12, 2014, 09:51 AM   #49
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My home computer died a while back, so I haven't been able to respond to this thread as much as I'd have liked. There's only so much typing I can stand to do on a phone.

That said, I wanted to thank all of you again for your tips. I'll be going back through them and implementing those that I can. I don't have the budget to go buy some of the heavy-trigger revolvers that I've seen mentioned, but I can probably borrow a reasonable facsimile from a buddy.

I could, and can, compensate for the flinch, but I'd rather correct it.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:07 PM   #50
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One more time,,,

Click here please,,,

Aarond

.
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