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Old October 9, 2014, 10:45 AM   #1
chrisintexas
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tools other than guns

what other tools are there besides guns for self protection. I mean like stun guns etc. could you give brand, model number of those you have. thanks
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Old October 9, 2014, 10:59 AM   #2
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Here's one option:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pepper-blaster/
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Old October 9, 2014, 11:50 AM   #3
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check your local laws carefully. Stun guns, pepper spray and such may be treated the same as firearms under the law. Each locality can be different.

There are places where you need the same permit for pepper spray that you would need for a pistol.

And the law may only apply to carrying it, not purchase. OR not. Check and be sure.
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Old October 9, 2014, 12:32 PM   #4
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I've been thinking about getting one of those stainless steel "tactical" pens. Pretty cheap; they look cool, I can write with it and it could come in handy.
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Old October 9, 2014, 12:35 PM   #5
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Your brain, hands, feet, and body.
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Old October 9, 2014, 12:39 PM   #6
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^^^^^ Particularly the first one. Avoiding the problem is the most potent solution.
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Old October 9, 2014, 02:16 PM   #7
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I keep a PR-24 in the storage pocket on the door panel of my Chev. pick-up.
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Old October 9, 2014, 05:04 PM   #8
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Contact weapons are great if you are bigger, stronger, and faster than your assailant.

The same applies to most "stun guns"

Both of those require you to be close enough to touch them, which in turn means they can also touch you

At least with pepper sprays, you can maintain your distance
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Old October 9, 2014, 05:40 PM   #9
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Other tools? If you can, take up a martial arts class or something of the sort (provided you are athletic/healthy enough and wealthy enough in both time and finances to do so)

Also, what 44amp said
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Old October 9, 2014, 06:03 PM   #10
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While I'm sure it has its limits,a 200 lumen + compact flashlight may be useful.

In the dark,thug with dilated pupils will have vision fried.I tried it on myself and I had a large amoeba blind spot for at least 20 minutes.

I have not tried a 500 lumen...but I'm thinking about getting one.
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Old October 9, 2014, 06:39 PM   #11
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Police Magnum Pepper Spray, but this is primarily for a dog that attacked mine while I was out walking her last December. I also carry a three D-cell Mag-Lite for the same purpose, even in daylight. The pepper spray has been deployed once, successfully, on the original offender.
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Old October 10, 2014, 10:52 AM   #12
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I agree a flashlight can temporarily disorient someone without actually having to touching them. Also, consider a whistle as a way of drawing attention and possibly scaring the bad guy away.
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Old October 10, 2014, 05:27 PM   #13
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What!? No knives?!

I would consider an "appropriate" knife the next step down from a gun. If your going to be fighting close in, better to have a quickly deployed bite, the timing of a Singer, and a basic knowledge of the human anatomy.

Personally, I think a knife in the right hands, close up, is scarier than a gun.


Unless its a practical, street fight focused school, I wouldnt waste your time on a traditional martial arts school for this. I spent years in a number of different of disciplines, and other than a good workout, didnt get much of anything "practical" out of them. Search out the simple, practical, down and dirty street fighters.


If you plan on using pepper spray, best to know, and be ready to fight your way though its effects too. Poor execution, and use could disable you just as easily as your target. Dont bet on it stopping a determined opponent either.
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Old October 10, 2014, 06:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
While I'm sure it has its limits,a 200 lumen + compact flashlight may be useful.
I wouldn't use anything compact; just carry a really bright full size maglight like cops do. Blind 'em then bop 'em on the head

And whoever said knives gets a thumbs up. Even if you carry a gun you should still keep a knife handy. One is not a substitute for the other unless it's by necessity.
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Old October 10, 2014, 06:50 PM   #15
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I keep a Louisville Slugger in the umbrella case next to the door...
But I don't think that's what you meant.

I carry a small taclight (4sevens quark 123), and an even smaller pocket knife (spyderco dragonfly h1).
But truthfully, if I had time to fish one of them out of my pocket I'd probably have time to run away.
I don't really have the room to carry multiple accessible weapons on my belt so my gun's pretty much my go to plan.

Out of curiosity, why are you looking for a "not gun"?
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Old October 10, 2014, 07:35 PM   #16
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knives, bats, bottles and boots.....piano wire? razor blades in your cap like the old gangsta's? brass knuckles? ninja stars/throwing knives/katana? chloroform , could b anything.

but I think a knife and mace could make a useful BUW(eapon)
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Old October 10, 2014, 08:04 PM   #17
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What!? No knives?!

I would consider an "appropriate" knife the next step down from a gun. If your going to be fighting close in, better to have a quickly deployed bite, the timing of a Singer, and a basic knowledge of the human anatomy.
Although I always carry a knife or two, I have no intentions of being that close to an adversary if I have the option of choosing other weapons that keep me farther away.

If you're "fighting in close" you've already made mistakes
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Old October 10, 2014, 08:23 PM   #18
AK103K
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If you're "fighting in close" you've already made mistakes
Sometimes you dont have a choice.

What other weapons that you "normally" carry on you besides a gun, can be used at more than arms length?

Anything other than the gun, is going to be "close". I know this is a gun board, and its the weapon of choice, but you do need some realistic skills other than the gun, if you want to be well rounded.
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Old October 10, 2014, 08:30 PM   #19
James K
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I concur with checking local laws. Oddly enough, there are areas where it is fairly easy to obtain a CCW license to carry a gun, but where some other weapons, such as pepper spray, are banned and cannot be carried legally at all.

But there are other weapons that can be carried easily and legally with no problem. I used to carry a tightly rolled copy of the old Life magazine, roughly 12" long and hard as a club, used either for thrusting into an opponent's neck, stomach or lower parts. I knew a telephone lineman who carried a 2 foot long piece of 100 pair, something that would be considered part of his job, but which could deliver a real, even fatal, blow to an attacker's head.

In short, many things can be weapons if you recognize them as such and learn how to use them; the best are those that an attacker (and the police) won't consider weapons even if using them turns out to have unfortunate results for a dangerous, and perhaps overconfident, opponent.

Jim
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Old October 10, 2014, 09:40 PM   #20
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I have a kimber pepper blaster II as I think was mentioned. Make a long story short one night on a dark highway, a long way from help I ran into a mentally unstable man. I had no call to shoot but I wasn't going to wrestle around in the dirt with him either. If he was a little bit stronger it could have gone south. I've always carried one since.
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Old October 10, 2014, 10:59 PM   #21
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Adding to the "Check local laws" idea,If I am not mistaken,the only concealed weapon your CCW gets you is your handgun in Colorado.

I do not have a definitive knowledge,so,take this with a grain of salt,but,if through some routine check pat down they find your Fairbairn knife concealed,you are busted on a weapons charge.Life gets complicated from there.

I believe tear gas is legal,but the kind that use explosive propellant may be a problem.Myself,I would choose the gel type.No cloud.

A compact Surefire in the coat pocket is discrete and useful.
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Old October 11, 2014, 12:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
What other weapons that you "normally" carry on you besides a gun, can be used at more than arms length?
Pepper spray would be the best choice to avoid actual contact.

It sounds "cool" to talk about knife fighting, but that goes back to what I said before about some things only working IF you are stronger and faster than your adversary.

The best defense is to totally avoid physical contact.
A knife requires contact

Quote:
Sometimes you dont have a choice.
I have the choice of choosing things that don't require being within arms length to help, and won't get me arrested as quickly as cutting someone, which may just make them mad enough to try and kill me rather than being an effective immediate deterrent

The majority of people will fare much better with a spray than by trying to be a knife fighter
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Old October 11, 2014, 01:05 AM   #23
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Old October 11, 2014, 06:55 AM   #24
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Pepper spray would be the best choice to avoid actual contact.
Pepper spray is used at "contact" distances, and has a very good chance of affecting the user as it does the target. Your also assuming it will be effective and incapacitating, which it often isnt (and if it is, hopefully not to you). Whats your plan if they get through and get a hold of you, and/or you get a good part of the blast due to wind or impact back blast? Have you trained to fight and function through it?

If youre going to choose it, you'd best get some "realistic" instruction in its use, so you know what to expect from it, and in all directions.

Quote:
The best defense is to totally avoid physical contact.
Absolutely! But what happens when its unavoidable? Are you prepared for the next level?

I simply want the best tool for the job if and when it does, and if its not a gun, then the knife is next.

Quote:
It sounds "cool" to talk about knife fighting, but that goes back to what I said before about some things only working IF you are stronger and faster than your adversary.
It sounds "cool" to talk about gun, or any other kind of fighting too.

The knife "is" the next "lethal" choice, if a gun is not available. Its easily carried "always", and readily available, and way better than anything less than lethal, especially when they arent effective, and things escalate.


Quote:
I have the choice of choosing things that don't require being within arms length to help, and won't get me arrested as quickly as cutting someone, which may just make them mad enough to try and kill me rather than being an effective immediate deterrent
What? Spraying, or "trying" to spray them with pepper spray wont make them mad and not want to hurt/kill you?

If you can carry pepper spray, and are trained in it use, great, if it fits your lifestyle, by all means, have at it. But dont delude yourself that its going to stop things dead in their tracks, especially against a determined opponent. As much as you say you dont want someone in close, spraying them with pepper spray is as good as an invitation, and you had best be ready and prepared for a contact fight if they arent impressed. What next?

I dont want to be in a contact fight anymore than anyone else. If it has to be, and I cant have a gun, then I want the next best chance of getting out of it, and leaving my opponent with the least chance of carrying on, and a knife will allow a better chance of that.
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Old October 11, 2014, 10:33 AM   #25
HiBC
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I think the foundation behind "handguns only" for a CCW might be that halfway measures might be used in situations other than "gravest extreme"

Is akin to warning shots or brandishing.

Perhaps the theory is not perfect,but if its not yet time to shoot the attacker,its not yet time to use a weapon.

Most of us have been raised on a Hollywood depiction of firearms use(which gets incorporated into laws).

"I am not in control of this situation,and I want to be,so I will pull my weapon of choice and gain power.Step 2,I'll rack the slide,cock the hammer,etc to show them I mean business..."And it might be over any form of Jerry Springer drama.

That scenario is behind much political opposition to concealed carry.

So the laws are set up"Do not produce a weapon until someone is trying to kill you.Anything else,you go to jail"

The halfway measures suggest the threshold to justify deadly force has not been met.

Remember,knife,club,gun,if you kill someone in "self defense" it is by definition a homicide.You will have to prove it is justified.

If you use a knife on an unarmed man,you may have a problem.

If you engage in a knife on knife fight...bummer,you may have a bad day.Odds are good you are in for heavy bleeding,and a tie means you both lose.

Consider,as you go for your knife,the other guy may have his hand wrapped around his snubby .44 Spl.
As soon as you produce your knife,he is justified to dump a wheel in your chest.

Unless you are in the Zimmerman postion,on the ground being beaten to death,what the man with the knife may consider a defense,will be seen by a prosecuter and jury as a surprise attack,and a cowardly one at that.

I believe"The right to keep and Bear Arms"covers all the tools,but I'm not the Judge.

Last edited by HiBC; October 11, 2014 at 10:43 AM.
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