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Old April 5, 2014, 07:49 PM   #1
Glenn E. Meyer
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Grandpa America Vs. Lex Upster

The title will become clear:

Interestingly, I was coming back from a psych convention downtown where I gave a talk about some of my jury stuff. It cheered my heart to meet quite a few young female grad psych students who are hard line gun folks. They wanted to talk AR-15 vs. their males relatives or significant others telling them SHOTGUN ENUF said.

One had a knife clip in the pocket. Hmm - so much not like some of academia.

However, we needed some stuff from Home Depot. I ditch the sport jacket and switch more into TX duds. I managed to keep the Glock and assorted stuff hidden during the transition. Ah - the handicap stall in the restroom.

So at Home Deport - we will call this Grandpa America vs. Lex Upster.

The protagonists - old coot in a pickup who rear window is covered with a giant aggressive Bald Eagle and Flag - Grandpa America. A middle aged couple in a Lexus SUV or crossover - Lex.

By the Garden Center pointing towards the exit, GA is seemingly parked. Lex starts to drive by on the left. GA starts up and decides to turn in front of Lex. This is because he is making a wide turn to get into the handicap space (important nuance). Lex honks, honks, honks. Pretty clear GA is going to clip him. GA slams on his brakes in front of Lex. He exits the truck, leaving the truck door open and now blocking all traffic. I decide this is a good time to walk briskly to my car and get distance. I note GA is wearing a fanny pack and as a noticeable wallet (how subtle). Time to leave, Glenn. But I watch to see if I should hit the dirt.

GA now goes to the driver's side of the Lexus wildly waving a very substantial wood cane. He is yelling:

Do YOU Know a horn is for!!! repeat, second verse same as the first.

Lex - rolls down the window (good plan) and GA starts poking the cane at Lex's face. Lex says you were going to hit me. GA bellows : I was not (I'm by my car and a real distance away but you can hear).

Mrs. Lex decides to enter the fray by yelling at GA - ARE YOU GOING TO MOVE YOUR TRUCK? - repeatedly. Thanks wife for the support (good plan).

Lex sits there with a stupid grin.

GA pokes cane at face but no contact. He stomps back to truck. Well, wife decides to yell again. Are you going to move your truck? GA stomps back to wave the cane at the open window of Lex.

At this time, an employee gets between them and all is well. Mulch and bags of cow crap are taken home for gardening and the tulips.

A battle of idiots. As much fun to move away from as when the law stormed Cracker Barrel and the wife and I made a hasty evacuation. Since to drive away would have taken me through the fray - distance and cover seemed a plan. After gunfights in the movies starting with a popcorn toss or loud music inciting another genius to hose a fleeing car - I would like to ask Scotty to beam me up and drop down a squad of red shirts.

I will opine that GA need a touch of evaluation if he does things like and carries.

What else there to do but get away for the bystander. As a participant, Lex might have been better clued in to options and wife should have been quiet.
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Old April 5, 2014, 08:06 PM   #2
raimius
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Gah, people! No damage?--MOVE ON POLITELY!

Ego and pride can lead to stupid situations. Glad that it was only elevated to a shouting match.
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Old April 5, 2014, 09:37 PM   #3
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As my pastor would say: "People caught in the act of being people".

100% approve of your "participation".

Always need good witnesses.

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Old April 6, 2014, 11:28 AM   #4
wayneinFL
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I hate to take sides in any kind of dispute like this, but people just don't have any respect for old people.

My dad's in his 70s. Mind is good, still works full time, still runs his own business. But he has a bad knee, bad back, and prostate cancer. He gets good treatment for everything at the VA, but he still doesn't get around very quickly. On a good day he hobbles, but on a bad day, he hobbles real slow.

There are people who will actually lay on the horn because he isn't crossing the street fast enough in the Wal-mart parking lot. And he will have words with those people. And I don't blame him.
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Old April 6, 2014, 11:44 AM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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I suggest you talk to him about common sense. Also, the horn was because of an incipient collision.
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Old April 6, 2014, 11:52 AM   #6
jimbob86
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Quote:
Do YOU Know (what) a horn is for!!! repeat, second verse same as the first.
(Raises hand)
Quote:
the horn was because of an incipient collision.
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Old April 6, 2014, 12:29 PM   #7
old bear
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Now that I'm getting closer to the GA age group, so I make every effort to be understanding when GA's do something silly. My # 1 rule in parking lots, is to give the GA's a wide berth. Rule #2 unless they are about to run someone over never honk horn at GA's it only confuses them. Rule #3 unless GA's has attempted to strike someone, back away. No need to get into a parking lot brawl with a GA. Last but not least rule for dealing with GA's. Try and treat them the way I would hope someone will treat me when I finally make it to full time GA.

P.s. I HAVE an EX who acted like the LEX babe, had an angry mouth. I spoke to her about it several times, and it never changed; until one day 35+ years ago, when her quick mouth got me in one hell of a fight, in a Safeway parking lot. I drove home cleaned up, changed clothes, and packed a bag. never to return.
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Old April 7, 2014, 06:09 AM   #8
Mobuck
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"understanding when GA's do something silly"
What we do that seems "silly" to you is usually logical to US. I get very disturbed by the "self importance" of many younger people. NO respect or consideration for those who are older, slower, or less assertive.
I wouldn't leave my vehicle to confront an A-hole driver but I'd surely present the muzzle of my pistol should a Lex-upster type confront me. I'm nearly at the point of using a walking stick(not a cane but a Cold Steel with a skull cracker top) and pushy, snotty, disrespectful youngsters are part of the reason. I'd probably have a hard time justifying shooting but could easily justify a couple of whacks to realign a bad attitude.
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Old April 7, 2014, 06:55 AM   #9
skoro
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Grandpa America Vs. Lex Upster

As a codger in my 60s with both a cane and a pickup, I have some geezerly advice for GA:

a) don't sweat the small stuff

b) it's all small stuff

Don't block traffic. Parking lot etiquette applies equally to us seniors.

Carry on...
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Old April 8, 2014, 05:00 PM   #10
Skans
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I have little tolerance for people who get out of their cars just because someone honked their horn at them. There's a good chance that such a person would start to attack your car or attack you. If GA was threatening me in any way, I'd take down his tag number and call the police, or just drive off if possible.

Just ask yourself - would you ever get out of your car to confront someone who honked their horn at you, yelled at you, or even flipped you off? Only an idiot looking for real trouble does that.
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Old April 11, 2014, 08:02 AM   #11
pax
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Quote:
I'd probably have a hard time justifying shooting but could easily justify a couple of whacks to realign a bad attitude.
No, actually... you could not. It turns out that assault with a deadly weapon is assault with a deadly weapon, whether you use a club or a gun or a knife or just your motor vehicle. Your heavy cane certainly counts as a deadly weapon, just as much as a baseball bat would if used in a similar manner.

Even a bare-fist "whack" would be committing the crime of assault, if you do it just for the purpose of "realigning a bad attitude."

Here on TFL, we do not advocate breaking the law. Not even laws against whacking people who annoy us.

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Old April 12, 2014, 08:02 PM   #12
Merad
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Quote:
"understanding when GA's do something silly"
What we do that seems "silly" to you is usually logical to US. I get very disturbed by the "self importance" of many younger people. NO respect or consideration for those who are older, slower, or less assertive.
I wouldn't leave my vehicle to confront an A-hole driver but I'd surely present the muzzle of my pistol should a Lex-upster type confront me. I'm nearly at the point of using a walking stick(not a cane but a Cold Steel with a skull cracker top) and pushy, snotty, disrespectful youngsters are part of the reason. I'd probably have a hard time justifying shooting but could easily justify a couple of whacks to realign a bad attitude.
Sounds like a good way to get shot.
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Old April 13, 2014, 02:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Just ask yourself - would you ever get out of your car to confront someone who honked their horn at you, yelled at you, or even flipped you off? Only an idiot looking for real trouble does that.
Only when I was a dumb kid. Nowadays, I generally smile and shake my head sadly, if I am clearly not at fault. There are times when even this response causes even more violent actions, but they are few and far-between. During those few times, I'll usually say something like, "You're looking for trouble," and they can take that anyway they like. So far, it's been enough. If I AM clearly at fault, I'll usually roll down the window and say "Sorry about that" or just "Sorry." Folks that haven't tried this approach would probably be amazed how much those little words diffuse anger and can effect a simple nod of appreciation.
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Old April 14, 2014, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
No, actually... you could not. It turns out that assault with a deadly weapon is assault with a deadly weapon, whether you use a club or a gun or a knife or just your motor vehicle. Your heavy cane certainly counts as a deadly weapon, just as much as a baseball bat would if used in a similar manner.

Even a bare-fist "whack" would be committing the crime of assault, if you do it just for the purpose of "realigning a bad attitude."

Here on TFL, we do not advocate breaking the law. Not even laws against whacking people who annoy us.

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Not to be a nit picker, but Assault is the threat WITHOUT any physical contact, Battery is harmful or offensive touching of another person.
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Old April 14, 2014, 11:05 PM   #15
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Assault is the attempt with a clear and present ability. Battery is the use of force, however slight.
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Old April 14, 2014, 11:31 PM   #16
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Battery is the use of force, however slight.
Sometimes that's what you have to do. I was exiting the office building where I worked and was followed into a parking lot by a guy in his mid-20's (I'm 65). He shadowed me on the other side of a cars as I crossed through the parking lot.

I stopped, turned around and headed back toward the office building - he turned and followed me on the other side of the cars. When we got into a traffic lane, he came toward me.

I told him to stop coming toward me three times. When he was about 2-feet from me - I pushed him backwards hard enough to set him down on his backside about 8-feet away from me - and then I proceeded rapidly to my truck.

He got up and started coming toward my truck - I drove out of the parking lot.

Called the police, filed a police report and was told by the police they knew who he was, he was probably on drugs, and the next time I saw him to call them immediately and they would arrest him.

Sometimes a "slight use of force" is warranted. In this case, the police didn't seem to have a problem with it.
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Old April 16, 2014, 07:39 AM   #17
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
... TX

***

Do YOU Know a horn is for!!!
This may illustrate a regional difference as much about automobile horns as anything else.

When I was a lad, I used the horn to communicate that I thought another driver was insufficiently aware of my presence or position, because I thought that was what it meant. Over the years, I came to learn that to most males under the age of 30, using your horn meant that you wanted them to catch up with you and ask you to get out of your car for a fight.

I also used to think that flashing my high beams behind someone was a polite request for them to yield the passing lane. I have since learned that it is actually a request from them to signal to me that I am "number one".

Age brings so much wisdom.
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Old April 16, 2014, 08:50 AM   #18
btmj
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Regional differences for horn use... maybe this is off topic, but it is a really good insight.

When I first visited Miami in 2003 for a boat show, I was astonished at the amount of horn activity. If there was a line of cars at a red light, about half the drivers would be watching the signal, with their hand on the horn ready to honk. The very instant the light turned green (I'm talking milliseconds), the honks would start. Even cars 10 rows back would honk. It was not a prolonged blast, but a single quick beep.

As I discovered later, the reason for the beeping is to make sure that everyone stopped at the traffic signal was paying attention and was aware that the light had turned green. In Miami it is considered very rude to waste peoples time by being unfoccused, slow, lame, lost, or otherwise stupid behind the wheel. Honking was not not considered rude, it was considered a valid and important communication tool between drivers.

I actually found it quite refreshing. I have never understood the attitude that if I have an important appointment and I am in a hurry, somehow I am being rude. But people who s-l-o-w-l-y pull away from an intersection, and take 1/3 of a mile to finally get up to the speed limit, and cause other people to have to wait through an additional red light cycle due to their slothlike driving, those people are not being rude.

But the point is, horn use is very regional. In some areas (like St Louis), a horn can be legitimately used if a collision is immenent. Otherwise, it is considered rude to use the horn, the equivilent of shouting F--- YOU ! That is why I was so shocked by the Miami drivers.
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