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Old March 19, 2014, 09:23 PM   #76
Willie D
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However as the threat increases, it makes sense to put the finger on the trigger on double action revolvers.

That's what I'm thinking: maybe for heavy Double Action pulls there should be a Red Threat Level "Now Firing" and and Orange Threat Level "Pretty damn sure I might need to fire."

I am not unconcerned with an accidental discharge but again I worry that a lot of shooters (myself definitely included) are going to miss a shot at miss-able distances if we try to go from zero tension on the trigger to quickly yanking a 12# trigger with a good deal of travel.


Frank: I read that link earlier and it is certainly chilling. That said, my shotguns have less than 6# pulls that are relatively short. I would not think of leaving a finger on the trigger in that case and also I would worry less about missing because in theory my support hand and shoulder are doing the lion's share of my aiming for me.


Using the OP's M9 or something with a similar heavy 1st shot DA pull like a CZ75, Sig, Mak, 5906, PPK, etc; a lot of people have a hard time getting a quality shot at 50'+. For myself, trying to quickly pull the DA trigger is likely to torque the gun and miss. Maybe you could call this a training issue or the failings of a particular design but I also wonder if maybe there should be some acknowledgement that rules for one design (SA) might work less well on the DA platform.
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Old March 19, 2014, 09:55 PM   #77
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by Willie D
...Maybe you could call this a training issue or the failings of a particular design but I also wonder if maybe there should be some acknowledgement that rules for one design (SA) might work less well on the DA platform.
Yes, I consider it a training and practice issue.

Through all my training deviating from the consistent application of Rule 3 for different types of guns was never considered an option. Through my classes at Gunsite and elsewhere folks using double action semi-automatics or revolvers adhered to the same trigger finger discipline as those of us using 1911s or Glocks.

I wouldn't consider different trigger finger management for different types of guns to be an option. I would never suggest or allow anything of the sort in any of the classes I help teach.

If you can't manage the double action trigger on your chosen gun well enough to be confident keeping your finger off the trigger until you're on target and going to shoot or shooting, perhaps that gun is not a good choice for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie D
...maybe for heavy Double Action pulls there should be a Red Threat Level "Now Firing" and and Orange Threat Level "Pretty damn sure I might need to fire."...
And believing that is consistently possible or worthwhile is fantasy. Proper trigger finger discipline requires consistency. If you believe that you can reliably distinguish when it's okay to have your finger on the trigger other than when you are on target and about to shoot or shooting, it's a sure thing that you will have your finger on the trigger at a wrong time. And that is how people have unintended discharges.
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Old March 20, 2014, 02:04 PM   #78
Glenn E. Meyer
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The DA trigger is not a guarantee against an ND with trigger on the finger. This has been test by ergonomic folks. Startles, bumps, sympathetic in concert with a grip squeeze in the other hand can fire an DA trigger of most semis.
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Old March 20, 2014, 02:23 PM   #79
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
The DA trigger is not a guarantee against an ND with trigger on the finger. This has been test by ergonomic folks. Startles, bumps, sympathetic in concert with a grip squeeze in the other hand can fire an DA trigger of most semis.
Another point to consider is that repetition results in habit. So how one trains to manage his trigger finger with a double action revolver will carryover when he handles a single action or striker fired pistol, or a rifle, or a shotgun.
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Old March 20, 2014, 07:46 PM   #80
raimius
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Not getting quality hits while running a heavy double action trigger is a training issue. A lot of people would rather get pistol with a nicer trigger than deal with that.

If you get to pick your pistol, selecting one with a nice trigger may be wise. If you can't pick your pistol, training enough to get past a longer, heavy pull should be one of your priorities.
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