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Old August 4, 2013, 08:07 PM   #26
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Willpower and decisiveness are more important than training. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of armed citizens who fight back have very little training. The Armed Citizen is full of such stories.

Unfortunately in the case of the Petit home invasion, dad was taken out early with a fractured skull and mom probably though she would give them what they want and they would go away.
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Old August 5, 2013, 12:04 PM   #27
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Watched the documentary.

Two career criminals. One of the burglars liked to use night vision goggles, he would rob victims while they slept, then stick around and visit every bedroom because he enjoyed listening to people breathing.

Scary stuff.

Lessons to be learned:

1. Just because its an affluent area doesn't mean the crooks don't know that, generally they follow the money. Be alert and prepare accordingly.

2. Carry a gun, if either adult had a mousegun (and the will to use it) the outcome could have been different.

3. Unlikely, but LE may not save you, in this case they had a half hour, but did nothing but establish a perimeter, while they heard a female screaming... the 48 yr old was brutalized, strangled, raped, the 17 and 11 year olds were brutalized, molested, tied up, gasoline poured on them and burnt alive... and the police response?

No knock on the door, no phone call, no bull-horn, no crashing thru the front door. 3 females murdered, waiting to be saved.

4. The overall lesson is that you are king and/or queen of your castle, and you must protect your family.

Even a small pocket handgun can save you.
For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side.
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Old August 7, 2013, 09:47 PM   #28
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EPIC FAIL. Why on earth would anyone believe a criminal? Assuming you'll be killed shines a different light on the situation. As Ayoob has said in the past... "Hope is not a strategy"
...The [bank] manager stated that Petit had indicated the assailants were "being nice", and she believed they only wanted money.
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Old August 7, 2013, 10:11 PM   #29
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The full story...

I agree100%.
Don't be swayed by a sad sack story or believe every bit of information you may hear from some person you just meet or may encounter on the street.
I've done LE & security work long enough to avoid those pitfalls.
About 6 years ago, I was doing a armed security post at a low end hotel, I had contact with a younger guy(mid 20s) who claimed his vehicle was "stolen" from a local Walmart lot & "abandoned" in the hotel parking lot.
The windshield was smashed in & there was blood on the auto glass.
The guy was amped up & was very "upset" .
A state trooper who did the traffic investigation later informed me the young man & his girl-friend(a corrections officer) lied to cover up a hit & run!
The driver hit a woman on the street & drove the damaged vehicle to the hotel property. The couple then called LE saying the car was stolen.
The victim was in a ICU .
The guy's "act" almost worked but neither the state trooper or me would buy it.
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Old August 7, 2013, 11:03 PM   #30
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Nice... there is an alley behind my home where we set the trash out. 6:45AM I am rolling the can to the curb and 2 guys were walking toward me. One asked, "hey whats in the can". I backed up and smiled, put my right hand in my pocket and said, "trash"... their reply was a soft laugh and a "that's cool"... corrected their path and kept on moving. I didn't have anything in my pocket but I do know body language can speak louder than words.... especially when words might be inappropriate for that moment.

Another interview happened in front of my house in the afternoon. A man dressed in a white suit was telling me a story about his transmission going out and needing money for a bus. I'll bet I told him 4 times I didn't have any money but would be happy to call 911 so they could assist him. He DID NOT want me calling 911.

These people are unbelievable. Even the slightest bit of assertiveness with these d-bags can be the line between being a victim and not being a victim.

Last edited by Evan Thomas; August 7, 2013 at 11:08 PM. Reason: enough with the stereotyping.
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Old September 16, 2013, 10:06 PM   #31
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We live in a fairly affluent area, Dr. Phillips. There are more than one Publix, I love Publix. Very clean, prices are reasonable.

I carry always. My Wife has just received her FCCL, but does not carry. She shoots Glock's well.

This happened about 6 months ago, I have posted this incident before. Not sure if I did here?

My Wife shopping (we have been married 20 years) me reading a Library book in the Jeep.

Call from my Lovely Wife.

"I am being followed around the store by two young black guys, pants at half mast, under pants showing" "And the neither one has a cart, or basket"

I told her I would park close to the far left door, the right one from her coming out. My exact advise. "I will be standing behind the Jeep, you walk normally till you exit, then speed up, don't run, keep close to the wall, do not look behind, or at me, no matter what happens"

She was amazing! She came out, lengthened her stride, and moved smoothly along side the wall, towards some carts.

These two were 4 or 5yds behind her. Nothing in their hands. The one on my left was looking at my Wife, the one on the right, scanning!

The scanner spotted me! Shirt undone, Glock 19 on my right side, not showing (yet) he grabbed his pals arm, they ran across the parking lot, to the street.

Their ride was just behind me!

I know I could have done this, that, and the other. I did not do anything but be ready to shoot them, just me involved, I have involved other people in my self defense before, I like just me, I know what I was going to do.

Distance to these young Gentlemen, from my shoes, 7m. Behind them, a concrete wall.

I did tell the Manager next time we went there? Ho Hum, my Jeep has the name of my Sons Security Company all over it. Good advertising!

Been in and out of that store for ten years, no incident prior to this.
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Old September 18, 2013, 05:03 PM   #32
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Just to prove people do not think, . . . this morning I went to my son's house he is in the process of selling.

I was supposed to do two things: mow the lawn, . . . let in the water quality guy to take samples for the realtor.

I mowed the lawn and waited too long, . . . called the realtor, . . . they came over, apologizing profusely for the delay.

Got the water people on the phone, . . . "He was there, home owner let him in, he's on to another site".

After some heated discussion, . . . found out the dude went to a different address up the street, . . . knocked on the door, . . . and in fact the home owner did let him in, . . . escorted him to the sink, . . . got his sample, . . . at a home that had no reason, no appointment, no logical explanation for the water quality test.

But the guy showed up with a bottle, cllipboard, and uniform, . . . waltzed right in.

Won't never happen at my house.

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If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
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Old September 18, 2013, 05:20 PM   #33
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Off topic(but related)....

Doing security work in a few resorts/hotels/extended stay places, I can honestly tell you how easy it is to get personal information, vehicle information, even room keys from some poorly trained staff or front desk clerks.
Many of these employees are hourly wage earners or lack the critical thinking skills to deal with security/safety related issues.
Don't think Im being smug. A few are sharp & are pro-active but those hotel employees mostly move into high-end chains or concierge type positions/mgmt.

As a security officer I constantly had to "educate" some clerks about not giving out personal details or being lax. Some guests could care less about personal security but many would be concerned about their hotel rooms.

Years ago, around 2003 or so, I dealt with a wierd guy who was stalking a young woman from a AMTRAK station to the hotel lobby. He became irate but left the property w/o incident.
In a more recent event, 2011, I worked in a low end hotel where a strange guy was following a few female guests around late at night. I had the guy removed.

CCTV systems help but being alert/careful is smart if you travel often.

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Old February 22, 2014, 01:42 AM   #34
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HBO doc....

Watched the entire doc on a HBO Go format.
Id highly suggest it to any license holder, gun owner or anyone who's looking into a home defense plan.
It's a tough video to watch but it puts a lot of things into context.
Home security weapons or plans may not be perfect but it might give you a decent edge or a better change to prevail.

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Old February 22, 2014, 12:11 PM   #35
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Have a bedside lock box and a dining room (center of my first floor) lock box. I have 2 young girls who I am constantly wrestling around and giving piggy back rides. I don't think they would ever pull a concealed trigger, but I like not having to worry about smashing it into their bodies while we play either.

Also have my long guns in my basement. So there is no floor in my house that is not armed. Not perfect, but I am as prepared as I want to be at this point. I also do not open the door without inspecting the knocker from another vantage point. Meter man without a truck, "give me your office number and manager's name to call and ask." Solicitors are not entitled to me opening my doors. I open the blinds to talk and have hand on gun for any suspicious moves on their part.
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Old February 22, 2014, 02:37 PM   #36
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I don't think they would ever pull a concealed trigger...
If the gun is in a proper holster, it would be impossible.
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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Old February 23, 2014, 03:53 AM   #37
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The "gun" they used was actually an airgun, and their other weapon was a baseball bat that one source says they found in the yard. Sad to think how easily they could have been overcome had anyone in the house had access to a firearm.
I know I am preaching to the pastor, the choir and the pianist, but those unfortunate people might possibly could have had a multitude of firearms within close reach, it was not a lack of access to guns that led to their demise.

It was more than anything else,

First, the paucity of ability to quickly grasp what was happening, a lack of focus on what the most likely end results would be if left uninterrupted, and the lack of cognitive skills to find solutions to disrupt the desired end results of the perpetrators.

Second, they did not have the intestinal fortitude to fight, or did not muster this will until it was too late (see #1 above), if at all.

Third, they did not have access to those tools or skills associated with those tools to repel those animals.


If you (anyone reading this) had to choose only one of these four things, which would you rather have?

1. Ability to quickly make good/accurate threat assessments
2. The will to fight, to win
3. The tactics and skills to win a fight
4. The tools.

If you could only have two, which two?

If you needed to leave home without one, which one?

See you all in another couple of years.

NYC Drew.
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Old February 23, 2014, 06:59 AM   #38
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i used to live in ct--less than 10 miles from cheshire. i know the family personally. got to tell you i have never been so disgusted in my entire life. political correctness killed these women.
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Old February 23, 2014, 12:22 PM   #39
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The root cause of the murders....

In my view(and it's a point made by others), the family could have been rescued or at least had a strong chance of being saved if the local PD officers went straight into a "active shooter" role. They could have made entry when they heard the female screams.
One of the subjects even said he saw "faces in the grass" from inside the home. He knew law enforcement were out there & that they had to leave the property immediately.
The local PD did engage & arrest the subjects as they fled but the murders/arson/damage was already done.
The film states the approx time between the 1st 911 call to law enforcement & the actual contact between LE & the 2 subjects was 31 minutes.
The mayor appears in the doc but no police officers/supervisors from the Chesire CT police dept would go on camera.

I'd add that IMO, the family was not prepared for a violent crime nor were they armed properly. I wouldn't say it's fair to be critical of the father(who was beaten with a bat & restrained) to not have the defense skills or weapons. Petit was a medical doctor, a healer, he wasn't prepared to fend off a home invasion.
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Old February 24, 2014, 09:36 AM   #40
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Petit was a medical doctor, a healer, he wasn't prepared to fend off a home invasion.
I'm not certain that the two are mutually exclusive.
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Old February 24, 2014, 10:17 AM   #41
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Mindset, motivation....

My point is that Dr Petit gave me the impression(as limited to his remarks/statements in the film) that he wasn't in the frame of mind to be armed or to own-carry guns.
I don't know him & it's not really fair or prudent to assume what Dr Petit would(or would not) do with any weapons in the attack but the entire incident goes to show that no one should be lax or compliant in today's world.
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Old February 24, 2014, 11:38 AM   #42
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With a somewhat similar origin, the film "Law Abding Citizen" starts with a home invasion. 2 bad guys, family tied up, beaten, raped, murderd wife & child, husband left for dead, but survives, barely.

Unfortunately, the guy who's family they murder turns out to be one of those super competent guys who used to do nasty things in other places for an un-named govt agency....(which is a big plot hole, how they bad guys get the drop on him to start with...)

Anyway, he recovers and go on to get very brutal revenge on the killers. While wrong, we kind of root for him, until his revenge expands to include everyone else in the case, lawyers, judges, etc.

Something to do, if you have a couple hrs with nothing to do...
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old February 24, 2014, 12:00 PM   #43
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Petit was a medical doctor, a healer, he wasn't prepared to fend off a home invasion.

I know what you mean certainly.

But -

Most of the Docs I know are gun enthusiasts you wouldnt want to test.
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:26 AM   #44
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The assailants were morons, not ninjas. A dog or an alarm might have prevented the whole thing. They got into his home, and his bedroom without waking anyone. At that point even a gun may not have helped.
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