The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 28, 2015, 12:50 PM   #1
Trevormyrtlebeach
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4
Hornady .30 cal Neck Sizing Die Issue

I recently purchased a Hornady .30cal neck sizing die for 7.62x54r, 30-40 Krag, and possible future .30 cal cartridges I may come to use. I first tried it out on 30 some odd 7.62x54r cases by following the included instructions; they all came out perfectly. However when trying to size the necks of the 30-40 Krag cases, the first two buckled at the shoulder. Surprised, I removed the die and proceeded to set it back up in my RCBS RCII. Again, following the instructions provided with the die I tried and came up with the same result.

Obviously I am doing something wrong, it’s advertised to be compatible with 30-40 Krag and customer reviews on MidwayUSA.com confirmed it so.

The procedure for sizing is to first insert a case into the shell holder and extend the ram all the way up, followed by screwing the die with the expander ball and decapping pin assembly removed. Then screw in the die in ¼ turn increments while visually checking the case neck until the entire neck has been resized while being careful not to alter the shoulder. Up to this point I had had success, it was when the decapping and expanding assembly was inserted that the trouble began. The instructions say to remove the case from the shell holder, insert the assembly into the die, raise the ram fully, and adjust the decapping pin down so that it is about 1/32” below the floor of the shell holder. Completing the setup, I put a lubed case in the shell holder and raised the ram. There was some stiff resistance at first, I assume being the ball pushing through the case mouth and neck, after which the resistance was less. The ram still rising I could feel the neck press into the die body and continued to raise the ram until I could not go any further. Not hearing the primer drop out or feeling the lever cam over tripped my spidey senses so I pulled the case out. The result was the case shoulder looking something like a bendy straw.

At this point I knew I was missing a step but was perplexed because I had followed the instructions to the ‘t’.

I guess my question is because the 30-40 Krag has a much longer neck than say the 7.62x54r or even .308, is the top of the case mouth contacting the decapping and expanding collet where it cinches against the die body before the ram is raised all the way? I mean did it work for other people because they did not size the entire neck? Am I wrong to try and resize the entire neck?

I’d appreciate any expert advice.
Trevormyrtlebeach is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 01:33 PM   #2
higgite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 809
Not an expert, by any means, but if it sizes the neck okay without deforming the case with the decapper/expander assembly removed, the problem pretty much has to be with the decapper/expander. Are you sure the expander didn’t get pushed up inside the die when you resized the case(s) that deformed? The Hornady die is designed for the decapper/expander stem to easily be moved up or down if the locking nut isn’t tightened sufficiently. If that happened, the expander would seal off the neck sizing portion of the die on the upstroke and the case would have no where to go as you continued to push on the handle. A shot in the dark, but worth asking.
higgite is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 01:43 PM   #3
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 7,257
I have neck sizing dies that are full length sizing dies. I have dies with threads, threads make my dies adjustable. I do not have universal neck sizing dies.

Anytime I crush the case body/shoulder juncture I have a die that is adjusted down too far. I have a 30/06 neck sizing die, I can also use a 308 Full length sizing die to neck size a 30/06 die, with the worst laid plans I can also crush the 30/06 case in the 308 full length sizing die.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 02:34 PM   #4
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,315
7.62x54r doesn't have a .308" neck. Uses a .311" bullet. 7.62mm doesn't always mean .30 cal. Doesn't mathematically convert to .308 either. So a universal .30 calibre neck sizer isn't for 7.62 x 54R.
Considering the cost and availability of .30-40 Krag brass, you really don't want to set up a die by trial and error. You may want to re-think a universal neck sizer for it too. However, you do have to adjust the thing for the neck length. You will need to FL size any new brass and any brass fired out of another rifle anyway.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 03:38 PM   #5
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,579
I'm guessing, not having looked in my loading books to see how long the Krag case is versus the others, but you are probably sizing too far down on that Krag case. Unscrew the die a bit, so that the shoulder doesn't hit the neck sizing portion of the die and you should be Ok. No big deal.
603Country is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 06:08 PM   #6
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,579
Rereading this, I think maybe T.O'Heir might have said the magic words. If the expander ball is for the larger diameter Russian round, maybe that's what is causing the problem when you try to run it into the case.
603Country is offline  
Old August 28, 2015, 09:44 PM   #7
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 7,257
Quote:
Rereading this, I think maybe T.O'Heir might have said the magic words. If the expander ball is for the larger diameter Russian round, maybe that's what is causing the problem when you try to run it into the case.
Speaking of magic 603Country could be on to something. I have two sizer plugs in my die box for Russian ammo.

Then there are wildcats, I size 280 Remington to 35 Whelen, 30/06 to 338/06.
Everyone knows the case does not have case body support when the sizer plug is pushed through the neck, and no one measures the length of the case before and again after necking up.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old August 29, 2015, 09:35 AM   #8
PA-Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: NEPA
Posts: 892
You do know that Hornady has different product numbers for those neck sizing dies? 7.62 Russian is 046050 and the 30/40 is 046045 (this one can be used for 308 and 30-06).
PA-Joe is offline  
Old August 29, 2015, 10:00 AM   #9
Trevormyrtlebeach
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4
@603Country That's just it, I had no issues when sizing the 7.62x54r brass even with the .308 expander ball installed. Yes, I'm aware that .30 cal encompasses a few sizes ranging anywhere from roughly .304 -.314" and that .30cal European rifles are typically .311" as T.O'Heir mentioned above. I will swap out the ball for the .311" for the 7.62x54r (something I should have remembered) before I do anything else with them.

Screwing the die out a couple of 1/8 turns did actually eliminate the shoulder buckling while only yielding around 90% of the neck being re-sized. So then it's not super critical that the ENTIRE neck be sized? I was worried that would somehow effect feeding and chambering.

Like T.O'Heir said, it is not ideal to conduct these operations via trial and error especially with brass that is a little harder to find. Reloading Rifle cartridges is relatively new for me and I'm sure one could assume my level of expertise on the subject simply by the initial questions I asked. I'm completely open to learning though I am a visual learner. I appreciate you all collectively for your tolerance of a newbie and your time.
Trevormyrtlebeach is offline  
Old August 29, 2015, 04:54 PM   #10
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,579
Yup, you do not need to resize all of the neck. 2/3 of the neck, or a bit less, would be fine. Looks like your problem is solved. Remember though that F. Guffy correctly stated that the way you are sizing doesn't lead to a supported case body or neck, all of which lead to a less than perfect result. I suggest that you buy a good standard Full Length Sizing die. You can use that for full length sizing or for Partial Resizing (come on Bart B, step out of the shadows. I miss you). Some may suggest a bushing type die, but you might not be quite ready for that.

In explanation, Bart B does not approve of Partial Resizing for max accuracy. I disagree in some applications, which depends on case design, whether they are tapered cases (270 and 220) or not (243 or 308, for instance.
603Country is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07013 seconds with 10 queries