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Old October 11, 2014, 11:01 AM   #26
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I dont want to be in a contact fight anymore than anyone else. If it has to be, and I cant have a gun, then I want the next best chance of getting out of it, and leaving my opponent with the least chance of carrying on, and a knife will allow a better chance of that.
I've never seen a knife that could reach as far as a spray without being thrown.

My goal isn't to hurt or kill an attacker so much as it is to just get away safely.

That's more likely if I can blind them for even 10 seconds instead of getting close enough to literally touch them with a knife
One shot, one kill
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Old October 11, 2014, 11:44 AM   #27
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Most of us have been raised on a Hollywood depiction of firearms use(which gets incorporated into laws).
Or "any" weapons use. Which is often the reason for what many seem to think is the proper way to proceed on things. Much, if not most of that, is more dangerous to the person who feels they are the victim or are acting defensively.

The belief that producing and showing your weapon will cause your opponent to quake in fear, and run away, is very flawed thinking. Looks good in the movies though. They always like to play up the weapons, as if they give you some sort of magical power.

Reality is, if you truly feel your life is in danger, given no obvious way out (not that necessarily by law, you have to flee), the only response is to be explosively and aggressively violent, and use any means possible to win. This isnt a game. Laws/rules are meaningless at this point. You dont show your hand, until its in action. Self defense has nothing to do with "defense", its all pure aggression once it starts. Once it starts, if you are thinking defensively, your head is in the wrong place.

If you use a knife on an unarmed man,you may have a problem.
No more so if you use your gun, or whatever on an unarmed man. Just because someone is unarmed, doesnt mean they are not a deadly threat. There are other factors here besides armed or unarmed, and you may very well be justified to use deadly force.

Consider,as you go for your knife,the other guy may have his hand wrapped around his snubby .44 Spl.
As soon as you produce your knife,he is justified to dump a wheel in your chest.
And as soon as he wraps his hand around his snubby, youre justified to use your knife. How is one any different than the other.

I believe"The right to keep and Bear Arms"covers all the tools,but I'm not the Judge.
I do too, but Id prefer to be the one before the judge, than the guy in the morgue, who cant offer a contrary explanation of the encounter.

I've never seen a knife that could reach as far as a spray without being thrown.

My goal isn't to hurt or kill an attacker so much as it is to just get away safely.

That's more likely if I can blind them for even 10 seconds instead of getting close enough to literally touch them with a knife
If you are being "attacked" they arent waiting for you do be the aggressor, they are already doing so.

If I believe they mean to do me harm, I most certainly mean to hurt them, including kill them if necessary, and how they proceed, determines that. They are more than welcome to walk away unmolested, thats entirely up to them.

If they are determined and are already moving on you, that spray, may or may not have any effect at all, and they may very well be on you before they even know they were sprayed, and it even takes affect. And thats assuming you even got a good hit on them. Even if you should get a good, solid hit square in the face, if they are already on you, at that point, they know youre right there at the end of their arms, and if they get a hold of you, whats your plan then?

Have you ever been hit with pepper spray? While it isnt at all pleasant, it isnt something that is necessarily debilitating, and you can certainly work through it, albeit, at a lesser capacity, if your determined. Very often, the people you usually see sprayed with it, already were afraid of it, and didnt want any part of the fight anyway. Watch the accounts of people who were determined, or on drugs, etc, and pay attention as to how they react.

As far as throwing your knife, it looks like the movie influence is alive and well. Why in the world would you throw your weapon away? If you need to get it there, take it with you, and give it to them when you get there.

It seems there may be some misunderstanding as to what purpose these "less than a gun" weapons are for. Im assuming they are to be used "in place of" the gun, since the gun is not available, but for the same purpose. Not a lesser, non lethal option (although that can be a choice).

Non lethal alternatives are used as part of a force progression, but should not replace or be used in place of, weapons that can be used to a deadly end, if that level of force is necessary. That pepper spray can, isnt really a deadly option, unless the person is somehow completely incapacitated, and at your mercy. If your weapon of choice proves to be less than effective, whats your backup plan then, and are you ready to seamlessly move to it?
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Old October 12, 2014, 06:00 PM   #28
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I dont have my ccw permit yet, so I currently carry variety of knives. My favorite is a 7" K-Bar knock off. In my area, big knives are legal to carry, but you can only conceal up to 3.5".
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Old October 12, 2014, 10:12 PM   #29
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A basket hilted sword makes getting into and out of cars problematic.
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Old October 12, 2014, 10:36 PM   #30
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OP asked for a list, and if one should ever have to legally defend self defense, proportional response will very likely be considered. So I have available and carry some combination of the following:

Hi intensity flashlight (>80 lumens will temporarily blind or disorient at night time; serves as a kubaton at grapple distance)
Pepper spray
Knife (the saying goes, in a knife fight the winner goes to the emergency room and the loser goes to the morgue)

I don't carry all of them all the time. But all are available in my vehicle to select what's best for where I'll be.
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Old October 12, 2014, 11:38 PM   #31
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When you are in another country, say England, and had to get there on an airplane, you do not have a choice of which gun to carry or which knife to carry or whether to carry a Taser or pepper spray. You had better not get caught carrying anything that could legally be considered a weapon or you will face a long prison term.

So if you ever even think you might need a weapon, better think "outside the box" and forget the Glock and the switchblade.

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Old October 13, 2014, 12:31 AM   #32
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So if you ever even think you might need a weapon, better think "outside the box" and forget the Glock and the switchblade.
One item that has yet to be mentioned is a cane or "African walking stick"

Unfortunately it's another weapon that relies heavily on strength and agility to be effective, so it won't help a lot of people

One shot, one kill

Last edited by Snyper; October 13, 2014 at 12:44 AM.
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Old October 13, 2014, 04:30 AM   #33
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Not sure if anybody has listed a proper walking stick or stout cane. You can generally take one of these about anywhere, it extends your reach, and there is some training out there if one wishes to go beyond the "swinging for the fence technique".

There are some dressy type sticks from the Cold Steel folks, and some tough but ugly poly sticks like their Irish stick and the African one as well. And stout wood canes are still out out for cheapies though.

Outside of town, I about always use a staff made from a fire rake handle on the trail. Think shovel handle, but longer and a bit sleeker. Solid ash. Turns me into a 3 legged stable critter, and would serve well used as a pugil stick.
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Old October 14, 2014, 05:14 PM   #34
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Most forms of self defense either rely on or are greatly enhanced by being in good shape, quick and agile. No way around that.

For those who are not, best options are probably gun, pepper spray/OC/mace, stungun/taser, and knife. Even someone who is out of shape can effectively defend themselves with a knife in some situations.

My own experience with spray is that it's pretty nasty, and while you might be able to defend yourself after being sprayed, you're not go to be effective at offensive actions against anybody. What I got sprayed with was OC spray, might be a little stronger than what's commonly available on the market to ordinary civilians. You do need to hit them in the face, but it's not that hard to do.

+1 on the cane or walking stick. Here's a couple other walking sticks that are effective weapons:
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Old November 20, 2014, 10:41 PM   #35
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A phone that you can use when your flight-or-flight adrenalin3 dump has kicked in. I carry a knife, spare ammo, and a tactical flashlight as well.

Good shoes--when you have to move, it ain't the time to be wearing flip-flops or loose slip-ons.
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Old November 20, 2014, 11:11 PM   #36
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In my area if you pull brass knuckles you're going to jail faster than if you'd pulled a gun. Same applies to knives. You can get away with shooting someone straight up and claiming self defense a whole lot easier here than if you had brandished a knife. The one who posted about self defense not having anything to do with defense once it starts is right on many things. This is why I feel the justice system on the subject is skewed in a lot of ways. As for the subject of "contact sport" I won't go into what my experience there is but I'm not all that worried about the one aggressor. It's the gangs of them that I feel let's say inadequate about. In my area our dea does not prosecute pepper spraying, and I have yet to see a case here prosecuted for the use of weapons in a one against many situation.
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Old November 22, 2014, 08:28 PM   #37
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I recently noted in another thread I started on here, that I had to travel on airline across the country and actually, I could have taken a handgun, but I just didn't want to go to the trouble of having to declare it, and do the locked case, etc. So I elected after doing some research to take my Canemaster fighting cane, as a carry on, and I also put a 5 inch Dozier hunting knife in my checked baggage.

I know a few very simple moves with the cane, for thrusting, and whacking mostly, but I have no illusions of myself as a martial arts master capable of doing any kind of holds or fancy cane work. I knew I was legal to carry the slightly under 5 inch fixed blade on me, once I got to my destination, and the cane never raised an eyebrow.

Thankfully, I didn't need either for self defense on my trip, but the plan was to be alert and employ the cane, unless it got really close and personal, or I got my cane taken away from me. The 5 inch knife was carried on my off side in an inside the pants Kydex scabbard, always concealed by a vest, as I didn't want to draw attention to myself.

But really, if you a not be scrutinized by a metal detector, or stop and frisk situations like NY, what difference does it make if you never use or flash you weapon. If you have to use it, then well, you deal with at that time, but if you actually need the weapon, then you are beyond the immediate concern for legalities at least for the moment. Afterwards, hopefully you acted as a rational victim would have, but if you are the trouble hunter or you get offended by any slight to your person, then you better leave your weapons at home.
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Old December 4, 2014, 10:33 AM   #38
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In my nightstand I have Fox Law Enforcement Grade Pepper spray (5.3 million SHU), and an ASP Baton. In my safe I have Rubber Bullets, Percussion shells and "Flashbang" Shells all in 12ga.
Ive come to find the best shooters are beginners. They have no confidence and are eager to learn.
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Old December 4, 2014, 11:17 AM   #39
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I think the best weapon in the world is an able body, keep that in tune and train it well and the possibilities are endless. There are so many self defense classes available now, you couldn't begin to list them all, before you had the choice of karate and karate, lol.. Martial arts studio started popping up and that was refreshing, I studied in a very nice studio from 14 to 25, the instructor closed up shop a while back.

MA is a good way to get what some believe to be the best of all worlds, you get Judo and Sambo ground detention techniques, boxing and ving tsun for hand strikes.
Leg strikes are a mix between the french kick boxing "Savate", the brazilian {some say african} la capoeira and Taekwondo, I have taken classes from a bunch of different instructors in more than a couple countries, the leg striking portion of martial arts is taught all different ways, some are heavy in Sanshou, Karate, and Muay Thai others are primarily one of the above arts, some take the best of all of them, I tend to lean towards muay thai and kwondo because capoeira, savate, ect are more art based and not combat strong, useful, but limited.. Leg game should be worked on to perfection, they are your strongest weapons and the hardest to perfect...

Then for grappling martial arts is 90% Judo/sambo, and they throw in a few jiu jitsu, hapkido, and akido bus its mostly a few useful techniques from each...

So if you want a good weapon, hit the gym, start a martial arts class and who knows maybe you will fall in love with it, I have studied a lot of different arts and made my own martial arts, thats kind of the point, you take an arsenol of moves that suit you well and incorporate them into your defense training so they are second nature to you. Everyone is different, I am 6'5" almost 300lbs, so doing back flips isnt going to happen anytime soon, lol, but boxing, akido, and muay thai work very well for me, I left the country to study Akido, its amazing, mostly using the energy of your attacker to your advantage, and any advantage of yours is the opposite to your opponent.

"move like water" {some of you will know what that means}, lol its a simple premiss, bruce lee learned studied with some greats, you move like water because it takes the shape of its surroundings, this helped me when learning to roll someone over me, I would tense up to try and translate force, when I should have been rolling with them to use the rebound to translate force with very little of my own energy...
"still like a mirror, respond like an echo" helped me when I am facing an opponent and instead of using my brain to react to their movement use theirs and that frees my thoughts up for my attack, so if you are the mirror they move left you move right they move towards you you move away, it become instinct leaving you to plan your own attacks...

So if it sounds interesting look into it locally, it will help with every aspect of your life, I can promise better shooting techniques, better health, and a clearer mind...

I know there are a lot of mma gyms around now and that is great too, I play with it myself, its great for adults, but some places I notice don't teach the "respect and responsibility" that you get from the brazilian and asian arts, that is what the problem with boxing was, I boxed for a long time, they teach the form and function but nothing else. Mixed Martial Arts is one of them things you need to search for a good instructor, not just some kid that wrestled in college...

anyway, thats enough talking about that, I vote for your own body and mind as the first weapon to get efficient with, then a blade, then maybe a gun is third on the list but I know a gentleman that can use a 6ft extension cord or lamp cord to take your gun from you before you can raise it from your waist to aiming position, pretty fun to watch, would I trust my life to it? I carry a gun, lol...
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Old December 4, 2014, 05:24 PM   #40
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I used a screwdriver once. It's all I had.
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Old December 4, 2014, 06:02 PM   #41
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I carry pepper spray and usually have a stylish but stout white oak cane with a brass eagle head on it, I could use either end. Better than nothing if a guns not a option.
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Old December 5, 2014, 12:27 AM   #42
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A ballpoint pen, or a pencil.
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Old December 5, 2014, 04:48 PM   #43
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Great suggestions for the most part, specially #'s 5 & 6. Use those and you will avoid 98% of ugly situations.
I keep a small canister of pepper spray in the L/F door pocket, and a defensive flashlight with it. I often need to use a cane, so I have one in the car or in my hand, along with a medium sized lock-blade folder in my R/R pocket. Other than that it's a firearm.
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Old December 6, 2014, 05:16 AM   #44
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good pair of running shoes
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Old December 6, 2014, 02:08 PM   #45
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A "Classy" Freddie Blassie Striking Cane
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

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Last edited by Erno86; December 6, 2014 at 02:16 PM.
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Old December 6, 2014, 08:25 PM   #46
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pepper spray

I never believed in pepper spray until I was sprayed for training... Now pepper spray is a wonderful thing that prevents first aid and a lot of explaining on why someone is dead. Plus its reversible so thats a plus. It is what my military buddy called Karma in a can.
Stay safe!!
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Old December 7, 2014, 12:54 PM   #47
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See I'm not much for pepper spray. For those who have taken it in various forms of training, most will agree that anyone CAN fight through it. It sucks, yeah, but it's not going to instantly stop you. If an assailant takes a shot of spray and you run, he's probably gonna have a hard time chasing you peering through 90% closed eyelids.

Why I'm not a big fan of spray? You're just as likely to douse yourself with it as the assailant in a fight. There have probably been more cops hit with OC spray than the individuals they were trying to arrest. I'm not saying that it's useless, or that it will not do anyone any good... I just believe there are typically better options.

As for "non gun tools." A knife should be a must carried by every man, IMO. Not just for SD, but just as a general tool. It will work in SD, but most people who have not trained in at least some basic fighting techniques will be pretty useless with a knife. Still carry one, and if johnny mugger or rapist is on top of you then pull it out and stab him if you can. Don't be pulling it out and displaying it as "preemptive defense" though.

Best tool at night would be a bright flashlight. It works and works well.
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Old December 7, 2014, 11:59 PM   #48
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I picked up a great Little League aluminum bat at a garage sale for 50 cents. Small enough to take running or walking and big enough to beat the snot out of any loose dog....or its owner.
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