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Old May 31, 2014, 11:10 AM   #76
Pond, James Pond
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It's their business how they treat their dogs but I also hate to see dogs ignored like these dogs, it has to be part of the reason these dogs act the way they do.
Not really.

Personally, I feel we have a duty of care to alert Animal Welfare authorities if people are not looking after their animals and letting them suffer mentally or physically.

Be it ignorance (they can at least be taught) or indifference (they should not have animals under their care if they are apathetic to their well-being).
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Old May 31, 2014, 11:23 AM   #77
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But then you have to decide if having Animal Control step in is a good thing.
So many dogs that are dealt with that way wind up being disposed of.
And it's a cultural thing -
We Americans mostly prefer to take care of things ourselves, rather than defer to the authorities.
At least in my neighborhood.
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Old May 31, 2014, 12:55 PM   #78
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There are no "authorities" here. It's outside "city jurisdiction" and the county doesn't have the manpower to do anything. The Sheriff will tell me to shoot if I need to...
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Old May 31, 2014, 01:40 PM   #79
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But then you have to decide if having Animal Control step in is a good thing.
I think the question is more a case of "Is it OK for someone to treat animals with cruelty, or neglect?"

If it is not OK, the next question is what should be done about it. I don't like the thought of dogs being put down just like that, but I like the thought of them spending a life of misery even less.
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Old May 31, 2014, 01:45 PM   #80
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Pond... What to do if there are no "authorities" who have the jurisdiction nor the manpower to step in? Sometimes it's simply a matter of self preservation. That's a darned shame for abused or neglected animals but what else are we to do?
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Old May 31, 2014, 01:50 PM   #81
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That's a darned shame for abused or neglected animals but what else are we to do?
Admittedly, that is a tough one.

I don't have all the answers, partly because I don't know what the procedural routes available to the public are, I suppose name and shame in the local press could be a start: nothing like a bit of peer pressure to change attitudes.

However, my initial point was rather to do with a posted statement that it wasn't anyone's business how someone else treated their animals, and I just feel that there comes a point when turning a blind eye becomes very hard.
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Old May 31, 2014, 02:02 PM   #82
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Admittedly, that is a tough one.
True, that...

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I don't have all the answers, partly because I don't know what the procedural routes available to the public are, I suppose name and shame in the local press could be a start: nothing like a bit of peer pressure to change attitudes.
How is the tiny local newspaper here to report all the abuses reported to them? There are far too many in the outlying rural areas. In my neighborhood alone I could report a half dozen people and we all live on 2+ acres.

Quote:
However, my initial point was rather to do with a posted statement that it wasn't anyone's business how someone else treated their animals, and I just feel that there comes a point when turning a blind eye becomes very hard.
I completely agree... but often times there's just not much we can do other than try to shame the animal owners face-to-face. I've done that many times but it never does much good... if any. Some folks just have no heart and no conscience.

I've even recommended that someone shoot their dogs in the head rather than neglect them the way they do. Sick or cold as that may sound... it would be better than how they treat them. It's damned sad... and angering!!
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Old May 31, 2014, 03:02 PM   #83
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Pepper spray.

I also like the idea of a horn.

A dog charging is a lot different than a dog being aggressive. I've been charged more times than I can remember, but never attacked (me). I've had my dogs attacked briefly... but that would not warrant shooting another dog. It's all fixable, even at that point.

I would have to say that before I shot a dog, I would have to believe it were going to attack, and do serious damage (breed specific). I would certainly draw, and be ready, under such circumstances. But the dog would have to cross a point of no return (such as lunging with intent to bite).

If I otherwise shot every dog that ran at me, that would be a large number of dogs.

I would dread the fallout from shooting a handgun on a public street and killing someone's dog, or worse, missing and having an errant bullet hurt a person.

You have no clue how the owner will react, for right or wrong.

Feuds with persistent, nefarious neighbors really bites. Poisoned animals, vandalism, rocks through front windows, slashed tires, gets emotionally draining, and expensive. And it's often impossible to prove the vandal.

I've been victimized by problem neighbors in the past and trust me, it's not worth it. Ultimately, someone has to move to get it peaceably resolved. Long story short, make and maintain great neighbors. You don't want the emotional headaches, the dollar costs of any issues, the bad blood, etc.

As a dog owner, and I love my dog(s), I can say that no matter what precautions you take, short of chaining them to a tree, they can and do sometimes get free and run. They can be escape artists. And I would be livid if someone shot one because it ran up to them. I would be mad AT THE PERSON because their shooting my dog would be a massive over-reaction.


My advice, take over an appropriate baked goods or other dish, have a talk with them. Peace offerings. Explain your concerns of their loose dog. Perhaps even offer to help them build a fence some Saturday, or get them one of those $10 stakes with a cable that can sink in the ground, or a cable they can tie to the tree...

A few dollars in prevention will certainly go a long way.

Last edited by leadcounsel; May 31, 2014 at 03:11 PM.
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Old May 31, 2014, 03:40 PM   #84
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leadcounsel... I agree about dogs charging. But it's something completely different when they approach with teeth bared. I've only shot one dog in my entire life and it was certainly justified in that situation. The only other time I ever killed a living creature other than insects was a sparrow when I was ten years old. My grandpa taught me a valuable lesson regarding wasting living things. What was gained from that killing and was it really necessary? The thing is... I knew I was wrong and already felt guilty... but I'd seen all the deer antlers on his wall and wanted to be like him. He assured that, indeed, I was more like him... kill only when necessary.

I love my dog too and would never let him run around completely unrestrained from my yard... even if he was big and strong enough to protect himself.

The problem here is few care enough to neuter/spay, feed and restrain their animals... let alone give them any loving attention. Most so-called "pets" here are 50 percent feral.

Last edited by Mike1234; May 31, 2014 at 03:45 PM.
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Old May 31, 2014, 06:06 PM   #85
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If dog owners would let their pets use up some of that steam, every day, that might go a long way to curbing their appetites for misadventure.
But most folks are reluctant to even take their pets for a decent walk, let alone do something really active.
G.Willikers, I think you are spot on when it comes to these my neighbors and their relationship with their dogs. I have NEVER seen them walk either one of these dogs. They just tie them outside. This could explain the bad behavior we are witnessing.
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Old May 31, 2014, 07:00 PM   #86
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(By 1-dab) "i fired a warning shot into the ground,"
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Old May 31, 2014, 07:08 PM   #87
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Living in a 4 plex,I once heard a horrendous dogfight outside.A young woman was looking at the vacant apt next door.A local Akida at large was whipping a Lab.I assumed the Lab was her dog.I grabbed the lab by the back hide and tossed it through her open door.I only got bit once.
She looked at me and said"Thats not my dog and what you just did was stupid" Then she walked away.Every once in a while someone reminds me why I like being single.
I told you that to explain I'm not freaked out about dogs.

I once was in a court room where two young girls were showing the wounds on their legs.They were guilty of riding their bicycles in a public park.

A par of dogs,who happened to be pit bulls,tore them up.The owner rationalized it,by saying it was the bicycles.If they had not been riding bikes...

I notice often the owners of misbehaving dogs transfer the responsibility to the victim."You should understand the dog better"

This man was quite upset when the court ordered his dogs destroyed.

Recently in the news a woman bit the ear off of a dog who was malling her 3 year old.That childs face and head were horribly mangled.

To a degree,we can adjust the responsibility from the dog to the owner,but,no one has to accept violence ,dog or otherwise.If a man comes at you with a knife,it is not necessary to get stabbed before you shoot.Same with a dog.

And,I believe if a person's dog tears up a human who is behaving in a lawful way,such as riding a bike,the owner of the dog should be held criminally and civily responsible.If uyour dog causes a child 200 stitches,you should pay the same price as if you yourself had caused the child 200 stitches.

If you cannot raise and train a pet you can keep under control,you should not have one.

If you allow your dog to become my problem,you authorize me to solve it.
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Old May 31, 2014, 08:29 PM   #88
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^^^ Absolutely correct on all counts. It's a shame but true.
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Old May 31, 2014, 09:10 PM   #89
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Amen.

The dog that attacked me twice is lucky to be alive. I pray there is not a third time.
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Old May 31, 2014, 09:53 PM   #90
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this happened to me and my wife today.

we had been hiking in some prime moose country in Vermont and also looking for a good primitive camping site.it looks good for my moose hunt this fall because we heard a moose grunt.

we got back to our car and our car would not start.so we had to walk a mile to find a phone because area was to remote for cell service.once we got back to civilization a german shepard came out of nowhere and bit my wifes dog.i yelled at the dog and the dog left.and the dogs owner felt so bad he let us use his phone to call a tow truck.

if your assertive when you talk, the dog will leave but they sometimes can do damage before you can even react
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Old May 31, 2014, 10:10 PM   #91
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if your assertive when you talk, the dog will leave but they sometimes can do damage before you can even react
That's often true but certainly not always. Dogs do often retreat when you yell at them while you wave your hands and approach them aggressively... BUT NOT ALWAYS. Other times they continue the attack they started or they re-focus their attack on you. It depends on the breed, their natural demeanor and their training.
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Old June 1, 2014, 09:33 AM   #92
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In the old days things were different ! There was a revolver and cartridge called the " Velodog" Velocipede [early name for bicycle] + dog.
A person had rights back then and that gun was designed for just defending ones self. It was similar to the 22 RF.
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Old June 1, 2014, 09:48 AM   #93
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if the dog wont respond to you establishing your dominence over it then shooting is then required.
had the dog not yielded to me i would have had to fight it off with a water canteen because we were not armed.
i am not saying deadly force is out of the picture.
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Old June 2, 2014, 09:46 AM   #94
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It's the owners.

Back in the day, my wife and I lived in an apartment 4 plex. My neighbors were quiet and decent. They had a baby and one of their parents showed up in an RV for a long term stay/visit. The parents brought their dog, an 80-ish pound chow mix.
One day, I was packing for a bike race and was walking past their apartment door carrying some extra wheels in some wheel bags, think 27" round nylon sports bags. That dog took off through their open apartment door and came snapping straight for my legs. I kept the wheels between me and it until the owners came out and collected it. "oh, it's the wheels," they said. "he doesn't like bikes." My wife came out a few days later walking a bike; same thing. I came out later that week, no bike, to get in my car and go to work, and the dog started up again and broke out the window of the RV to get at me.
"It's the bikes. (Not my problem)."
After that, I started carrying a folding knife. I told them that I didn't care what was setting their dog off; if their dog attacked me or my wife again, I was going to kill it. Oddly enough, it stayed tied up and out of sight for the next 3 weeks.
Ultimately, dogs are just pack animals and will do whatever the alpha animals allow.
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Old June 3, 2014, 12:06 PM   #95
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I've posted this before but, it was a potential dog attack that prompted me to grab my gun one of the only couple times I've done it. And it was a deliberate order to the dog. Cyclist hater I guess. I was riding in my own city, about a half-mile from home, at night, full lights, BTW, when I passed a large dog lazing on his owner's grass. The guy was working on something in the garage and I heard "Get 'im." The dog let out a muffled woof and started after me. I yelled, "Big f...... mistake!" and the guy called the dog back. Shaken, I went to the police station to report it, but didn't have an exact address. I told the cop I could likely point out the house. Cop told me to get the house number and they'd check it out, but there was likely nothing to be done.
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Old June 3, 2014, 06:47 PM   #96
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If I had to choose???, I'd get a cat !!!

Never understood why some dog owners think it's cruel to tie or confine a dog and yet not worried about what that dog might do to a passer-by or child chasing a ball. There is a reason why laws are passed to control dogs and yet the owners feel that they are obligated to share them with us. .....

Anyone see laws, protecting us from cats? When was the last time you were attacked by a cat? Oh, I've been scratched but that was only after a cat did not like me messing with him. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old June 3, 2014, 07:45 PM   #97
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Keeping a dog chained in a yard or confined to a kennel without providing other stimulus via training and exercise will create a problem dog. Charging and barking is a self-rewarding behavior, especially if there's no other work being done with the dog. People flee when they see a lunging chained or fenced dog, in the absence of other work with the dog it teaches itself that the behavior works.

I say that not as a means of turning this into a dog forum. But if you ride, bike, or run by a dog that charges from a fenced yard or a chain keep in mind that you could be dealing with a ton of energy if the chain or fence breaks.
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Old June 3, 2014, 07:51 PM   #98
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Good thread. Thanks for all the thoughtful, calm answers. It's not always easy to discuss such an emotional topic without a lot of heat, but everyone here did a great job.

Closing this now because it's drifted so far from the original question, and isn't really gun related anymore. Thanks.

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