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Old March 22, 2014, 09:32 AM   #26
jimbob86
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This is an interesting discussion ...

... and skizzums brings up a good point-
Quote:
i accidntally shot a snub-nosed 38 loaded with hydra-shok in our small bedroom, it was loud but absorbed by the carpet/furniture etc,
Carpeting and furnishings, I would think, would make a difference.....

As would the location of the muzzle relative to the unprotected ears .....

If a gun is loud for the shooter, who has the gun pointing away from him ..... imagine how much louder it would be for someone with the gun pointing at them! Then again, if the shooter is concentrating on putting the front sight on the target, and squeezing the trigger properly, then the target will have more pressing concerns than the loud BANG!-BANG! noise.....
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Old March 24, 2014, 09:25 AM   #27
Brian Pfleuger
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then the target will have more pressing concerns than the loud BANG!-BANG! noise.....
True that but consider that there are myriad scenarios that may involve innocents "down range" of the defender. Also, being indoors, the concussion is pretty impressive in the whole space. My father once shot a .30-06 from his kitchen table at a deer on a hill behind his house. He was probably 4 feet from the window that he only had open 3-4". I was outside at the time and heard no more than "THOOMP!". I would have never known it was a gun shot. My step-mom, who was behind a closed door on a different floor, was less enthusiast. She swore her ears were ringing.
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Old March 24, 2014, 09:45 AM   #28
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My step-mom, who was behind a closed door on a different floor, was less enthusiast. She swore her ears were ringing.
IME, the distaff side of the species is far more sensitive to banging noises inside the house ...... I popped a primer in my reloading room and you'd have thought I initated a firefight by the reaction of the females in the house .....
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Old March 24, 2014, 09:57 AM   #29
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This may not be the exact topic here but a couple of companies make a 12ga shell that is a small flash bang that could aid in room clearing if followed up by 00 or multi defence loads . When it goes off there is a blinding light and deafing boom that you can direct where you want most of it catching some one off gaurd would give you a eadge .
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Old March 24, 2014, 08:10 PM   #30
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38spl,9x19,40cal all suprisingly quiet, no hearing protection required, all the sound is immediatly absorbed by the insulation of the carpet and furniture
ok this is just silly
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Old March 24, 2014, 08:21 PM   #31
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3 years ago I fired a single hot .357 round from a snub without hearing protection and as a result have slight high frequency hearing loss in my left ear as well as a permanent ringing in it. The .357 is notoriously loud, for this reason I ditched the .357 as a home defense/carry gun.
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Old March 25, 2014, 07:27 AM   #32
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I ruint my hearing when I was a teen shooting 44 mag Black Hawk and Bench Rest rifles like .222 , .222 mag and 6mm Rem without hearing protection . Like many shooters I didn't know there was a problem until others told me . That kept me out of the Military and changed My carreer plans . I've worn hearing protection for the past 30 years and it gets a little better but that kinda damage never goes away .
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Old March 25, 2014, 12:47 PM   #33
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It's silly to think anyone can get away shooting a gun without hearing protection, anywhere. It's one thing when you're fighting for your life, but there is still damage being done. Most people don't realize how loud a world we live in, and how many things can and will damage your hearing. Listening to music at a 'comfortable volume' can potentially damage your ears, so don't think shooting anything indoors will do any less damage. It doesn't matter the caliber or barrel length, any cartridge being fired that close to your head WILL damage your hearing, whether you think it is or not.
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Old March 25, 2014, 07:22 PM   #34
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Tinnitus is a beast to live with... If I could go back I would certainly protect my ears alot better.
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Old March 29, 2014, 01:59 PM   #35
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Noise

The 106 Recoilless Rifle is probably the loudest weapon in the US military arsenal. I have fired it hundreds of times with no hearing protection. The entire heavy weapons platoon is hearing handicapped, all to the same degree. At reunions we are accused of being drunk because we all shout at each other. My most painful issue came from firing a 1911 45 ACP in a tunnel near Tam Ky in Vietnam. That felt like someone was shoving chopsticks into my ears.
I currently use standard pressure HST2 Federal 147gr IN 9 mm in a G19 for HD.
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Old March 29, 2014, 03:14 PM   #36
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imagine how much louder it would be for someone with the gun pointing at them!

Nothing personal, but a 38 spl is NOT a subsonic round. The bullet will hit them before they even hear the sound of it. If it is an instant kill, they will never hear the bullet that kills them.

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Old March 29, 2014, 06:40 PM   #37
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Huh? Most .38spl loads ARE subsonic. I'm sure there are supersonic loads. Especially in +P stuff, but generally most .38 special loads ARE subsonic.

Quote:
110 gr (7 g) JHP 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 235 ft·lbf (319 J)
130 gr (8 g) FMJ 810 ft/s (250 m/s) 189 ft·lbf (256 J)
148 gr (10 g) LWC 690 ft/s (210 m/s) 156 ft·lbf (212 J)
158 gr (10 g) LRN 770 ft/s (230 m/s) 208 ft·lbf (282 J)
200 gr (13 g) LRN 679 ft/s (207 m/s) 204 ft·lbf (277 J)
Quote:
.38 Special +P+ 110 gr (7.1 g) 1,100 ft/s (340 m/s) 295 ft•lbf (400 J) 22,000 PSI
+P+ with a light bullet, 110 grains, and the velocity is still subsonic in most conditions.

A brief google search and the fastest .38 special I found was 110 @ 1216fps. Depending on conditions it's in the transonic area at that speed.

The bullet will not hit them before the sound of it reaches them, but it doesn't matter anyway. It happens so quickly you wouldn't have any real time to react anyway. The bullet would hit you before your brain has time to process and react to the sound, but the sound will likely reach them before the bullet.

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Old March 29, 2014, 07:07 PM   #38
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Considering that the fastest possible human reaction times are in the neighborhood of 0.1 seconds and a bullet traveling at even 300fps will cover 30 feet in that time, the whole question of the person reacting to the sound of a gunshot is more than a little silly. There's no concern about damaging the targets hearing either, since we're already trying to shoot them.

However, the question of loudness on the receiving end is valid as there's always the possibility of an innocent being close downrange.
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Old March 29, 2014, 07:59 PM   #39
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357's are LOUD

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JohnKSa: I've had the misfortune to experience a hot load from a 4" .357Mag revolver indoors without hearing protection.
Yeah, that would have been seriously bad. Seems like there might be an interesting story there.

I had a similar incident - except, maybe not quite as bad. I once fired off my 357 (Python, 6") with a full-house Remington 125 JHP at a range, without hearing protection. It was outdoors, but I still had the stall walls on each side of me to reflect the sound right back into my ears. It was an awful experience.

I have tinnitus these days. Probably not a coincidence.

I've been dumb enough to fire off a few handguns outdoors without hearing protection. And to me - by a good margin - the 357 magnum seems to be the loudest handgun. Even louder than a 44 mag. There's something about the 357 - and it's all frequencies - the full spectrum.

This is a major reason why the 45 ACP is my first choice in home protection. The 45 ACP has a lower pitch to it. And although still thoroughly loud, it's nothing like a 357 mag, or 10mm, or even 40. It won't obliterate your hearing althogether in an indoors SD situation.
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Old March 29, 2014, 08:32 PM   #40
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Now if we are talking about really loud...

A few years back at a private machine gun shoot I watched an old man (at least 80) dialing in the T&E on his Browning M2. He fired the first burst and leapt up to go find his forgotten ear muffs. It was the fastest I saw that old timer move that day!

My grandfather was an anti aircraft gunner on the DD512 Guest. He had some stories about being to close to the 5"38s when they went off.
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Old April 1, 2014, 11:44 AM   #41
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My 9mm +p+ rounds that I fired without hearing protection left a nice mark on my inner ear issues at random. Vertigo sometimes. Sucks, apparently it'll get better soon. But that damn ringing won't
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Old April 1, 2014, 03:26 PM   #42
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Way back when I used to shoot at an indoor range, the occasional forgetfull moment when you don't put your earplugs in and fire one off will certainly make you cringe. If the situation calls for shooting AT someone much like a hunting situation I don't know how much you will realize it until after when your ears are still ringing, and if I have to shoot at someone I couldn't care less about their hearing damage. My 4" GP100 in .357 or oddly enough a long gone Ruger single six in .22 WMR were the most painful to shoot without hearing protection.
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Old April 4, 2014, 06:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
My 9mm +p+ rounds that I fired without hearing protection left a nice mark on my inner ear issues at random. Vertigo sometimes. Sucks, apparently it'll get better soon. But that damn ringing won't
Not sure how long ago it happened for you, but you will eventually get used to the ringing. Took me a good year or two to become fully accustomed to it, but I still need a fan or I use a white noise app on my iphone when sleeping.
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Old April 4, 2014, 11:36 PM   #44
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a cylinder of 22 mag will screw your hearing up.
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Old April 5, 2014, 11:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
a cylinder of 22 mag will screw your hearing up.
A cylinder of 22 CB short will screw your hearing up. Hell, a children's cap gun can and will mess your hearing up. Even dry firing certain guns can damage your hearing. The firing pin slamming forward, right next to your head, is loud enough to cause damage, especially if you do it repeatedly. Dry firing my Ruger M77 makes my ears ring.
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