Defense in the shower

gorlitsa · April 21, 2002, 05:13 PM

I've got a very odd question for everyone. I live in a college dorm, on an all-girls floor. But men are allowed on the floor, and a few 'significant others' even use our bathroom. We havn't minded up until now.

In the past three days there have been two cases of a man 'peeking' into the showers on our floor, and once trying to grab a girl on another floor. We're the first girls floor, so we're the most likely to be a target.

Each shower is in it's own room, but we only have plastic curtains to close them off. The basically provide no real privacy.

My question is, is there any realistic way to keep this guy out of the bathroom and out of the showers? If your daughter was in this situation, what would you recommend? Thanks

stevetuna · April 21, 2002, 06:33 PM

Lizzie, is OC spray an option?

gorlitsa · April 21, 2002, 06:47 PM

I doubt it:

Quote:

I will not bring any type of weapon into the residence hall. I understand that "weapon" includes but is not limited to firearms, dangerous chemicals, any explosive device, numchucks, brass knuckles, butterfly knives, paintball guns, and other materials that can be used in the endangerment of others. I understand that possession of a weapon will subject me to possible suspension or expulsion from the residence halls as well as the University.

I'm sure they would include OC spray in that category. Anyway, how water-friendly is that stuff?

Greybeard · April 21, 2002, 06:48 PM

Unless the stuff is prohibited on college campus, my initial thought is a generous dose of foam OC spray to the eyes. "Stream" type OC a distant second choice in very close quarters. Most common "cone pattern" units or foggers could easily put you both down.

My daughter's current OC (small cone pattern mist) is in the form of a fairly innocent-looking key chain kubotan. Unfortunately, she has a few more weeks at high school with "zero tolerance" policy.

You may also want to investigate some of the various motion sensor alarms. Altho I have no experience with, I have seen some (traveler's alarms) that can be hung on doorknobs and such to detect even small movements.

Other devices along the lines of "driveway patrols" might be adaptable to at least alert you of another person in the area. A battery opperated sensor picks up any movement within a (funnel shape) targeted "zone" and sets off a battery opperated chime. The chime in my office has two volume settings.

From what I see from your post thus far, it sounds to like the security people there need to jump on the issue with both feet, In the meantime, I am glad to see that you recognize that you will most likely be the one ultimately responsible for your safety. Again tho, a shame that a couple of bad apples in your dorm may jeopardize liberties for many others.

Texas2NC · April 21, 2002, 06:52 PM

First, file a formal complaint with the Dorm super, the staff and the Dean. Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that you will go to ever newspaper and television station in town and scream bloody murder if they don't do something.

That is an intolerable situation, one that you should not have to put up with.

On a side note, its times like this I am glad I have a son instead of a daughter. I can smack sense into a son but I would look out of place guarding my daughter with a shotgun while she showers in the dorm.

Betty · April 21, 2002, 07:10 PM

gorlitsa,
One thing that I keep in the shower is a "rat-tailed" hairbrush - the kind with the long-pointy end for parting hair. It's about 6 inches of meaningful plastic that I didn't even have to modify. And it's completely covert - it's "just a hairbrush in the shower".

Also, there's several varieties of hairbrushes and combs that are made as knives, except for those you have to pull the brush part off to reveal the plastic blade.

Greybeard · April 21, 2002, 07:11 PM

More food for thought here. Just saw resonse on OC, evidently while I was typing prior post. Under the circumstances, you may want to consider asking specifically in writing about the foam and/or stream OC - which are far less prone to contaminate others (and HVAC systems). And ask them to put their response in writing! If acceptable, I or others here can likely get you at least one source.

Some good friend's daughter got a softball scholarship last year to a college in the Great Lakes region and she promptly had problems in the assigned dorm. The parents flew up there, and in spite of the "policy", got away with installing their own dead bolt on her dorm door. And, before leaving, also gave her specific instructions for an "alternative use" of the $300 bat ....

KPS · April 21, 2002, 08:27 PM

I would definetely notify campus police and find out if OC is legal.It's a real shame that a college won't allow people to protect themselves with non-lethal pepper spray.

KSFreeman · April 21, 2002, 08:37 PM

How about Soap on a Rope as a weapon. You could use it like a yo-yo. Paint it black so it's tactical!

Coronach · April 21, 2002, 09:00 PM

OTOH,

Just get some OC spray (stream/foam is prolly best) and when/if you have to liven up this guy's olfactory/optical/respiratory system, just blink and look really confused when the subject of 'weapon' comes up. "What do you mean? Dangerous? Its just peppers. Ever eat chili? And how could it be a dangerous chemical? Police officers spray it in recruits' faces in training."

Besides, if you really want to make your campus administration look like a bunch of asses, make them attempt to discipline an empowered woman for fighting off a rapist (that is exactly how I would play it) after being cornered in a shower. Bring it, you politically correct buffoons.

Of course, if you ask for clarification ahead of time, you can't plead ignorance.

Mike

gorlitsa · April 21, 2002, 10:01 PM

Okay, pepper spray it is. Now the question is, where in the world do I get it? I need a very close-quarters type. I guess foam would be best for that?

KSFreeman · April 21, 2002, 10:13 PM

Erick, a blackjack? Does the Nannystate allow such a horrific weapon? Of course, the black-painted assault soap is just the same.

Navy joe · April 21, 2002, 10:19 PM

Well, if you know a 50 something year old woman that weighs about 300 lbs with a good sense of humor you could just get her to hang out and take a shower until peeping thomas see this and dies of fright.

LoneStranger · April 21, 2002, 10:28 PM

First question. How do you get to the shower room and are there any doors involved? Is the shower room integral with a line of toilets and sinks or is it separated in some manner?

How much distance do you have to travel from your sleeping room to the shower/restrooms? Can you yell for help and expect some or are you all by your lonesome?

Do you have a roommate and are you neighborly with those on either side of you?

Passive(?) actions would be to see if you can secure the entrance to the showers when using. If you have to block the door to the whole restroom for your own security, DO IT. Remember, the cute little posterior that you wish to preserve is your own. If anyone in authority objects you can point out that they are the ones who made the "Make A Victim" rules and you are just trying to survive under those rules.

Besides ROTL's style hairbrush you should really take up carrying a small lighter to light those scented candles in your room and you must definitely start having available a large can of hairspray, preferably with the flammable contents. I would be sure that you could explain how that particular brand works well with your hair.

Still, your best actions at this point is to see if you can coordinate your activities with others in same position on your floor. In a situation like this there will be safety in numbers.

voodooman · April 22, 2002, 01:38 AM

SCREAM!! thats what i would do, and i'm a man. hahaha. seriously, its best to get attention in such as case... put the guy on the run. then pepper spray. hand combat if necessary, but i'd rather try an avoid this.

high heels work well too. the really high, pointy ones you can get on sale at payless. they can be deadly. but i suppose you have no use for high heels in the shower.

taking quick showers may lessen the chance of such an encounter and maybe you can go with a friend. my wife always goes to public restrooms with another woman. i still havent figured out why, but maybe its not a bad idea. =)

Seeker · April 22, 2002, 02:44 AM

Make Peace sign with strong hand. Move Peace sign from vertical to horizontal and jab in to peekers peepers.

I learned this watching Larry, Curley and Mo.

KPS · April 22, 2002, 05:07 AM

If you want the best pepper spray out there, there's only one choice www.foxlabs.com .

ThePatriot29 · April 22, 2002, 07:33 AM

Besides seconding the already good points brought up, I would say raise all holy heck with the school to force them to take security measures. If they ignore this, go to the media... Bad pr like this is a nightmare for a school.

fix · April 22, 2002, 09:02 AM

Pepper spray in a steamy room tends to have ill effects on all occupants. Trust me, been there...done that. You have a decent weapon with you in the shower as it is. Hot water. Take a large coffee mug to the shower and fill it with scalding water before you hop in. When Mr. Peepers sticks his head in, give him a face full. EEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!!

gorlitsa · April 22, 2002, 10:25 AM

Fix--

Would all types of pepper spray effect everyone? Wouldn't a foam-type stick pretty well?

As far as getting the school involved, we've done that as much as we can. The main doors to the building are permenatly locked now, and the school is promising a locking bathroom door for next school year.

The rumor in the hall is that they've caught the guy, so the problem isn't so serious now. I guess now all I can do is wait and pray I get some advance warning.

On the up side, I DO have one of those shower-poofie things, and those sure seem to intimidate men.

fix · April 22, 2002, 10:47 AM

I would imagine that the effects on bystanders (read: you) would be considerably reduced with the foam, but I have no experience with that. I wear contacts, so I have sensitive eyes when they are removed. As anyone who wears them can attest, you can walk through a burning building with them in and the smoke has little effect. Your eyes are shielded. However, take them out...and a whiff of cigarette smoke will put you in tears. That could have played a part in my situation. I was on a military deployment a few years back. I had just hit the showers when an altercation broke out just outside. The two drunken combatants stumbled back into the shower area. Pepper spray was used to separate the two, and even though only a small amount was used, it hung in the air because of all the steam. I was 10 feet from it and it pretty much set me on fire. Now, although my eyes are pretty sensitive to anything when not wearing lenses, I am not particularly sensitive to pepper spray (no more than the next guy). I have been sprayed directly in the face with it in training. If the training experience scored a 10 on the pain scale, I'd rate the shower incident at a 6. It certainly was no picnic. Now, during the aforementioned training, I watched guys take a shot in the face and continue to "attack" (simulated) for as long as a full minute with seemingly no effect from the spray. Some folks just take it better. If you are feeling a 6 on the pain scale, and Mr. Peeper is like one of those guys...something to think about.

eagle10 · April 22, 2002, 11:54 AM

If the college says that pepper spray is not allowed, and they do nothing else to protect you, you may want to try a can of wasp/hornet spray. They usually have a stream of about 20 feet. You don't have to go for the face, but you can soak them pretty good!

ronin308 · April 22, 2002, 03:43 PM

Liz- HEY! I use a lufa (aka Poofie)! I guess I'm not a manly man because I don't sit and talk in the gunshop all day

fix · April 22, 2002, 03:56 PM

I prefer the term, "lather thingy".

carebear · April 22, 2002, 05:08 PM

Mine's a manly dark green, for uh camoflage

April 21, 2002, 05:13 PM	#1
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	Defense in the shower I've got a very odd question for everyone. I live in a college dorm, on an all-girls floor. But men are allowed on the floor, and a few 'significant others' even use our bathroom. We havn't minded up until now. In the past three days there have been two cases of a man 'peeking' into the showers on our floor, and once trying to grab a girl on another floor. We're the first girls floor, so we're the most likely to be a target. Each shower is in it's own room, but we only have plastic curtains to close them off. The basically provide no real privacy. My question is, is there any realistic way to keep this guy out of the bathroom and out of the showers? If your daughter was in this situation, what would you recommend? Thanks __________________ Elizabeth

April 21, 2002, 06:48 PM	#4
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 686	Unless the stuff is prohibited on college campus, my initial thought is a generous dose of foam OC spray to the eyes. "Stream" type OC a distant second choice in very close quarters. Most common "cone pattern" units or foggers could easily put you both down. My daughter's current OC (small cone pattern mist) is in the form of a fairly innocent-looking key chain kubotan. Unfortunately, she has a few more weeks at high school with "zero tolerance" policy. You may also want to investigate some of the various motion sensor alarms. Altho I have no experience with, I have seen some (traveler's alarms) that can be hung on doorknobs and such to detect even small movements. Other devices along the lines of "driveway patrols" might be adaptable to at least alert you of another person in the area. A battery opperated sensor picks up any movement within a (funnel shape) targeted "zone" and sets off a battery opperated chime. The chime in my office has two volume settings. From what I see from your post thus far, it sounds to like the security people there need to jump on the issue with both feet, In the meantime, I am glad to see that you recognize that you will most likely be the one ultimately responsible for your safety. Again tho, a shame that a couple of bad apples in your dorm may jeopardize liberties for many others. __________________ www.dentoncountysports.com A Private Palace for Pistol Proficiency

April 21, 2002, 06:52 PM	#5
Texas2NC Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 185	First, file a formal complaint with the Dorm super, the staff and the Dean. Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that you will go to ever newspaper and television station in town and scream bloody murder if they don't do something. That is an intolerable situation, one that you should not have to put up with. On a side note, its times like this I am glad I have a son instead of a daughter. I can smack sense into a son but I would look out of place guarding my daughter with a shotgun while she showers in the dorm. __________________ David "Preacher" Slocum http://www.bastaards.org

April 21, 2002, 07:11 PM	#7
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 686	More food for thought here. Just saw resonse on OC, evidently while I was typing prior post. Under the circumstances, you may want to consider asking specifically in writing about the foam and/or stream OC - which are far less prone to contaminate others (and HVAC systems). And ask them to put their response in writing! If acceptable, I or others here can likely get you at least one source. Some good friend's daughter got a softball scholarship last year to a college in the Great Lakes region and she promptly had problems in the assigned dorm. The parents flew up there, and in spite of the "policy", got away with installing their own dead bolt on her dorm door. And, before leaving, also gave her specific instructions for an "alternative use" of the $300 bat .... __________________ www.dentoncountysports.com A Private Palace for Pistol Proficiency

April 21, 2002, 08:27 PM	#8
KPS Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: MA Posts: 780	I would definetely notify campus police and find out if OC is legal.It's a real shame that a college won't allow people to protect themselves with non-lethal pepper spray. __________________ Welcome to Cape Cod.Beware of drunken Kennedys!

April 21, 2002, 06:33 PM	#2
stevetuna Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: Nantucket, MA Posts: 258	Lizzie, is OC spray an option?

April 21, 2002, 07:10 PM	#6
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	gorlitsa, One thing that I keep in the shower is a "rat-tailed" hairbrush - the kind with the long-pointy end for parting hair. It's about 6 inches of meaningful plastic that I didn't even have to modify. And it's completely covert - it's "just a hairbrush in the shower". Also, there's several varieties of hairbrushes and combs that are made as knives, except for those you have to pull the brush part off to reveal the plastic blade.

April 21, 2002, 08:37 PM	#9
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	How about Soap on a Rope as a weapon. You could use it like a yo-yo. Paint it black so it's tactical! __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

April 21, 2002, 09:00 PM	#10
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	OTOH, Just get some OC spray (stream/foam is prolly best) and when/if you have to liven up this guy's olfactory/optical/respiratory system, just blink and look really confused when the subject of 'weapon' comes up. "What do you mean? Dangerous? Its just peppers. Ever eat chili? And how could it be a dangerous chemical? Police officers spray it in recruits' faces in training." Besides, if you really want to make your campus administration look like a bunch of asses, make them attempt to discipline an empowered woman for fighting off a rapist (that is exactly how I would play it) after being cornered in a shower. Bring it, you politically correct buffoons. Of course, if you ask for clarification ahead of time, you can't plead ignorance. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

April 21, 2002, 10:01 PM	#11
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	Okay, pepper spray it is. Now the question is, where in the world do I get it? I need a very close-quarters type. I guess foam would be best for that? __________________ Elizabeth

April 21, 2002, 10:13 PM	#12
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Erick, a blackjack? Does the Nannystate allow such a horrific weapon? Of course, the black-painted assault soap is just the same. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

April 21, 2002, 10:19 PM	#13
Navy joe Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2001 Location: VA, USA Posts: 1,804	Well, if you know a 50 something year old woman that weighs about 300 lbs with a good sense of humor you could just get her to hang out and take a shower until peeping thomas see this and dies of fright. __________________ FY47012

April 21, 2002, 10:28 PM	#14
LoneStranger Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 576	First question. How do you get to the shower room and are there any doors involved? Is the shower room integral with a line of toilets and sinks or is it separated in some manner? How much distance do you have to travel from your sleeping room to the shower/restrooms? Can you yell for help and expect some or are you all by your lonesome? Do you have a roommate and are you neighborly with those on either side of you? Passive(?) actions would be to see if you can secure the entrance to the showers when using. If you have to block the door to the whole restroom for your own security, DO IT. Remember, the cute little posterior that you wish to preserve is your own. If anyone in authority objects you can point out that they are the ones who made the "Make A Victim" rules and you are just trying to survive under those rules. Besides ROTL's style hairbrush you should really take up carrying a small lighter to light those scented candles in your room and you must definitely start having available a large can of hairspray, preferably with the flammable contents. I would be sure that you could explain how that particular brand works well with your hair. Still, your best actions at this point is to see if you can coordinate your activities with others in same position on your floor. In a situation like this there will be safety in numbers.

April 22, 2002, 01:38 AM	#15
voodooman Member Join Date: April 20, 2002 Posts: 18	SCREAM!! thats what i would do, and i'm a man. hahaha. seriously, its best to get attention in such as case... put the guy on the run. then pepper spray. hand combat if necessary, but i'd rather try an avoid this. high heels work well too. the really high, pointy ones you can get on sale at payless. they can be deadly. but i suppose you have no use for high heels in the shower. taking quick showers may lessen the chance of such an encounter and maybe you can go with a friend. my wife always goes to public restrooms with another woman. i still havent figured out why, but maybe its not a bad idea. =)

April 22, 2002, 02:44 AM	#16
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,393	Make Peace sign with strong hand. Move Peace sign from vertical to horizontal and jab in to peekers peepers. I learned this watching Larry, Curley and Mo. __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

April 22, 2002, 05:07 AM	#17
KPS Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: MA Posts: 780	If you want the best pepper spray out there, there's only one choice www.foxlabs.com . __________________ Welcome to Cape Cod.Beware of drunken Kennedys!

April 22, 2002, 07:33 AM	#18
ThePatriot29 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 120	Besides seconding the already good points brought up, I would say raise all holy heck with the school to force them to take security measures. If they ignore this, go to the media... Bad pr like this is a nightmare for a school.

April 22, 2002, 09:02 AM	#19
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	Pepper spray in a steamy room tends to have ill effects on all occupants. Trust me, been there...done that. You have a decent weapon with you in the shower as it is. Hot water. Take a large coffee mug to the shower and fill it with scalding water before you hop in. When Mr. Peepers sticks his head in, give him a face full. EEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!!

April 22, 2002, 10:25 AM	#20
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	Fix-- Would all types of pepper spray effect everyone? Wouldn't a foam-type stick pretty well? As far as getting the school involved, we've done that as much as we can. The main doors to the building are permenatly locked now, and the school is promising a locking bathroom door for next school year. The rumor in the hall is that they've caught the guy, so the problem isn't so serious now. I guess now all I can do is wait and pray I get some advance warning. On the up side, I DO have one of those shower-poofie things, and those sure seem to intimidate men. __________________ Elizabeth

April 22, 2002, 10:47 AM	#21
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	I would imagine that the effects on bystanders (read: you) would be considerably reduced with the foam, but I have no experience with that. I wear contacts, so I have sensitive eyes when they are removed. As anyone who wears them can attest, you can walk through a burning building with them in and the smoke has little effect. Your eyes are shielded. However, take them out...and a whiff of cigarette smoke will put you in tears. That could have played a part in my situation. I was on a military deployment a few years back. I had just hit the showers when an altercation broke out just outside. The two drunken combatants stumbled back into the shower area. Pepper spray was used to separate the two, and even though only a small amount was used, it hung in the air because of all the steam. I was 10 feet from it and it pretty much set me on fire. Now, although my eyes are pretty sensitive to anything when not wearing lenses, I am not particularly sensitive to pepper spray (no more than the next guy). I have been sprayed directly in the face with it in training. If the training experience scored a 10 on the pain scale, I'd rate the shower incident at a 6. It certainly was no picnic. Now, during the aforementioned training, I watched guys take a shot in the face and continue to "attack" (simulated) for as long as a full minute with seemingly no effect from the spray. Some folks just take it better. If you are feeling a 6 on the pain scale, and Mr. Peeper is like one of those guys...something to think about.

April 22, 2002, 11:54 AM	#22
eagle10 Member Join Date: December 20, 2000 Posts: 25	If the college says that pepper spray is not allowed, and they do nothing else to protect you, you may want to try a can of wasp/hornet spray. They usually have a stream of about 20 feet. You don't have to go for the face, but you can soak them pretty good!

April 22, 2002, 03:43 PM	#23
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	Liz- HEY! I use a lufa (aka Poofie)! I guess I'm not a manly man because I don't sit and talk in the gunshop all day __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

April 22, 2002, 03:56 PM	#24
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	I prefer the term, "lather thingy".

April 22, 2002, 05:08 PM	#25
carebear Junior member Join Date: December 8, 2001 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 494	Mine's a manly dark green, for uh camoflage