Blackhawk cylinder diameters?

Butzbach · January 26, 2022, 12:46 AM

Is the cylinder on a Blackhawk in .357 the same diameter as one in .45 Colt?

I bought a nice used holster for my BH .357 and it’s roaming around in it a little more than I’d like. Thinking it may have been stretched by a .45. (Or maybe just a Super Blackhawk?)

Enquiring minds want to know.

rclark · January 26, 2022, 12:55 AM

The regular New Model BHs .357, .45 Colt, and .44Mag are on the same large frame with the same diameter cylinder. Same as the original Vaquero.

Then there is the New Model medium frame BHs with flattops (.357, .44Special, and .45 Colt) to distinguish them. Same size as the New Vaqueros. So if you have a flattop .357 it is a bit smaller. Flattop means there is no protective ears around the rear sight. Also the medium frame flattops all start with 3 digit serial number xxx-yyyyy instead of two digit xx-yyyyy as well. Oh, and if talking three screw Old Model BH .357, then it is also on the medium frame. All Old Model .357s are on the medium frame. Why they were popular to convert to .44 Special in their day.

Here is a article where there is a table of the cylinder size: Gunblast New Vaquero . Old Vaquero is same as (S)BH in that table. Hope that helps.

Butzbach · January 26, 2022, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rclark

The regular New Model BHs .357, .45 Colt, and .44Mag are on the same large frame with the same diameter cylinder. Same as the original Vaquero.

Then there is the New Model medium frame BHs with flattops (.357, .44Special, and .45 Colt) to distinguish them. Same size as the New Vaqueros. So if you have a flattop .357 it is a bit smaller. Flattop means there is no protective ears around the rear sight. Also the medium frame flattops all start with 3 digit serial number xxx-yyyyy instead of two digit xx-yyyyy as well. Oh, and if talking three screw Old Model BH .357, then it is also on the medium frame. All Old Model .357s are on the medium frame. Why they were popular to convert to .44 Special in their day.

Here is a article where there is a table of the cylinder size: Gunblast New Vaquero . Old Vaquero is same as (S)BH in that table. Hope that helps.

Thanks very much for the info. I’ve made a couple of runs at trying to understand the evolution of BH frames but the info never seems to stick. Mine is a medium frame 3 screw old model BH.

Any tips on shrinking a holster?

stinkeypete · January 26, 2022, 10:57 PM

how I shrink a holster:
1. Wrap pistol in a rabbit fur, fur side in
2. Stuff gun in holster
3. Enjoy new fur lined holster!

You can get more fancy from there, but I like rabbit fur.

rclark · January 26, 2022, 10:58 PM

No tip ( excuse to buy a new one? ) . I have a 120 holster made for the large frame New Models. But I still stuff my New Vaquero and other flattops in it. A little 'loose', but the holster has a hold down strap that goes over the back of the revolver, so I don't worry about it.

Butzbach · January 27, 2022, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rclark

No tip ( excuse to buy ahttps://www.gunbroker.com/item/917315854#carousel-modal-view-item new one? ) . I have a 120 holster made for the large frame New Models. But I still stuff my New Vaquero and other flattops in it. A little 'loose', but the holster has a hold down strap that goes over the back of the revolver, so I don't worry about it.

Mine is a very nice NOS George Lawrence suede lined with a half flap. It will do for range walks to the target which is why I bought it.

rclark · January 27, 2022, 09:30 PM

Sounds like a nice holster! I have another holster (the 'Shootist' from Simply Rugged) on the way, along with a matching gun belt. Decided it was about time, as the 2.5" gun belt I have ... only fits a skinny teenager....

. I have been just hanging holsters on my pants belt which sometimes in a pain.

jackmoser65 · February 16, 2022, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Thanks very much for the info. I’ve made a couple of runs at trying to understand the evolution of BH frames but the info never seems to stick. Mine is a medium frame 3 screw old model BH.

'Yours doesn't fit right because the Old Model 357's are on a smaller Colt sized frame.

**44 AMP** · February 16, 2022, 10:35 PM

The original Blackhawk was made on a Colt SAA size frame (roughly). These were all "Flattops".

When Ruger brought out the .44 Magnum ('56), they still used that frame size, but lengthened the cylinder window a bit for the long .44 Mag round.

In 59 Ruger began producing the Super Blackhawk, on an all new frame of larger size, with the hump on the topstrap protecting the rear sight base. Same frame they are still using today.

Ruger built both the .44 Blackhawk and the Super Blackhawk until about 64 when the original flattop frame was dropped. And some time after that, began making the Blackhawk on the large (super blackhawk) frame. These are the "3 screw" Blackhawks, not flattops and are all on the large frame.

In 73 Ruger introduced the "New Model" guns both Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, all on the same large frame with the transfer bar system.

When Ruger wanted a gun to fit the Cowboy action rules (fixed sights) they used that same large frame as the Blackhawk, just recontoured the topstrap to a fixed sight gun, and named it the Vaquero.

Ruger eventually dropped the Vaquero, replacing it wth a Colt size gun, named the "New Vaquero".

And, now, Ruger is also offering a recreation of their original Flattop models, but with the "new model" lockwork. These are Colt size guns.

So, there are 5 different "Blackhawks" possible, the original Blackhawk, the original Blackhawk in .44 Magnum, the large frame Blackhawk with the original Colt type lockwork, (3 screw) the new model Blackhawk (large frame, transfer bar) and the new Flattop model with the transfer bar lockwork.

As far as I know, none of the original Flattops was ever made in .45 Colt. Some of the large frame Blackhawks with the colt type lockwork were (approx 70-73) and after 73 all .45 Colts were large frame new model Blackhawks.

Until recently when Ruger brought back the smaller Flattop frame size Blackhawk and chambered it in .45 Colt.

clear as mud now?

jackmoser65 · February 17, 2022, 06:52 PM

Quote:

When Ruger brought out the .44 Magnum ('56), they still used that frame size, but lengthened the cylinder window a bit for the long .44 Mag round.

Some of your info is wrong. The original 44 mag Blackhawk was a large frame. There was never a mid frame 44 mag. The built three prototypes on the mid frame and they blew with proof loads. The Super frame and cylinder are the same size and strength. The only function difference is the longer Dragoon grip frame.

ALL Old Model 357's are on the Colt sized medium frame. ALL other Old Model Blackhawks are large frame.

The flat tops went away in 1962. They added the protective ears around the rear sight, substituted the XR3 for the XR3-RED grip frame.

**44 AMP** · February 19, 2022, 03:33 PM

Thank you for the correction about the early .44Mag. I'll discuss this with my source when I see him next.

January 26, 2022, 12:46 AM	#1
Butzbach Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2021 Location: Texas Posts: 145	Blackhawk cylinder diameters? Is the cylinder on a Blackhawk in .357 the same diameter as one in .45 Colt? I bought a nice used holster for my BH .357 and it’s roaming around in it a little more than I’d like. Thinking it may have been stretched by a .45. (Or maybe just a Super Blackhawk?) Enquiring minds want to know.

January 26, 2022, 12:55 AM	#2
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,619	The regular New Model BHs .357, .45 Colt, and .44Mag are on the same large frame with the same diameter cylinder. Same as the original Vaquero. Then there is the New Model medium frame BHs with flattops (.357, .44Special, and .45 Colt) to distinguish them. Same size as the New Vaqueros. So if you have a flattop .357 it is a bit smaller. Flattop means there is no protective ears around the rear sight. Also the medium frame flattops all start with 3 digit serial number xxx-yyyyy instead of two digit xx-yyyyy as well. Oh, and if talking three screw Old Model BH .357, then it is also on the medium frame. All Old Model .357s are on the medium frame. Why they were popular to convert to .44 Special in their day. Here is a article where there is a table of the cylinder size: Gunblast New Vaquero . Old Vaquero is same as (S)BH in that table. Hope that helps. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king. Last edited by rclark; January 26, 2022 at 01:06 AM.

January 26, 2022, 10:57 PM	#4
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,291	how I shrink a holster: 1. Wrap pistol in a rabbit fur, fur side in 2. Stuff gun in holster 3. Enjoy new fur lined holster! You can get more fancy from there, but I like rabbit fur. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

January 26, 2022, 10:58 PM	#5
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,619	No tip ( excuse to buy a new one? ) . I have a 120 holster made for the large frame New Models. But I still stuff my New Vaquero and other flattops in it. A little 'loose', but the holster has a hold down strap that goes over the back of the revolver, so I don't worry about it. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king. Last edited by rclark; January 26, 2022 at 11:04 PM.

January 27, 2022, 09:30 PM	#7
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,619	Sounds like a nice holster! I have another holster (the 'Shootist' from Simply Rugged) on the way, along with a matching gun belt. Decided it was about time, as the 2.5" gun belt I have ... only fits a skinny teenager.... . I have been just hanging holsters on my pants belt which sometimes in a pain. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

February 16, 2022, 10:35 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,804	The original Blackhawk was made on a Colt SAA size frame (roughly). These were all "Flattops". When Ruger brought out the .44 Magnum ('56), they still used that frame size, but lengthened the cylinder window a bit for the long .44 Mag round. In 59 Ruger began producing the Super Blackhawk, on an all new frame of larger size, with the hump on the topstrap protecting the rear sight base. Same frame they are still using today. Ruger built both the .44 Blackhawk and the Super Blackhawk until about 64 when the original flattop frame was dropped. And some time after that, began making the Blackhawk on the large (super blackhawk) frame. These are the "3 screw" Blackhawks, not flattops and are all on the large frame. In 73 Ruger introduced the "New Model" guns both Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, all on the same large frame with the transfer bar system. When Ruger wanted a gun to fit the Cowboy action rules (fixed sights) they used that same large frame as the Blackhawk, just recontoured the topstrap to a fixed sight gun, and named it the Vaquero. Ruger eventually dropped the Vaquero, replacing it wth a Colt size gun, named the "New Vaquero". And, now, Ruger is also offering a recreation of their original Flattop models, but with the "new model" lockwork. These are Colt size guns. So, there are 5 different "Blackhawks" possible, the original Blackhawk, the original Blackhawk in .44 Magnum, the large frame Blackhawk with the original Colt type lockwork, (3 screw) the new model Blackhawk (large frame, transfer bar) and the new Flattop model with the transfer bar lockwork. As far as I know, none of the original Flattops was ever made in .45 Colt. Some of the large frame Blackhawks with the colt type lockwork were (approx 70-73) and after 73 all .45 Colts were large frame new model Blackhawks. Until recently when Ruger brought back the smaller Flattop frame size Blackhawk and chambered it in .45 Colt. clear as mud now? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 19, 2022, 03:33 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,804	Thank you for the correction about the early .44Mag. I'll discuss this with my source when I see him next. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

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