First Time Gun Owner

[Python2020]

Hello everyone! Well, w/ everything going on, I went through the red tape in CA and bought a Colt Python. It was pretty much the only revolver they had then and there so I'm glad to see mostly positive reviews.

I went w/ a revolver b/c I like the simplicity and design. I like the weight and hope it'll help w/ recoil.

One of my test questions was something to the effect that using the wrong calibre ammo even if it fits can cause the gun to misfire. I couldn't follow the gun shop lady's explanation for why it was okay to use either 357 or .38 ammo w/ the colt? She kept saying it was chambered for a 357? Does anyone have any links for a simple guy to read? Can I load every other bullet w/ a 357 and 38 for kicks? Which ammo is best to buy (as in readily available, decently priced, and won't mess up the gun).

I've got two private lessons coming up. I got glasses and ear mufflers. I've seen a few youtube vids on dry practice and hope to go to the range once a month... Any other tips for a new gun owner?

Other than self-defence, I've shot 9mm before and enjoyed the weird feeling of peace while concentrating on my target? I'm hoping to find that again on the range.

[Shotgun Slim]

The 357 magnum cartridge was made longer so that it could not be chambered in guns made for the 38 special. The magnum generates more pressure than the 38 chambered guns can withstand. Obviously a gun that can handle the magnum can stand the lower pressure of the 38. So it is entirely common to fire 38 special ammo in a 357 magnum gun such as your Python. You can put three 38s and three 357s in it or any combo that floats your boat. After you fire a bunch of 38s the individual chambers may get sooty and bind up the 357 where it uses more of the chamber length. That will just be a slight inconvenience. The 38s will be much cheaper to practice/play with and the 357s will satisfy any craving for noise,flash and recoil. Enjoy

[ligonierbill]

Welcome to TFL and to the ranks of shooters. First, guns are like anything else on the internet. Don't believe everything you read. Second, learn to properly maintain that Python. If you have arranged for professional training (good for you!) get them to demonstrate cleaning basics.

Regarding ammo, good luck. There is a buying panic on. It will pass, but you might have to subsist on whatever you can find. By the way, the '38' is kind of misnamed. It fires the same diameter bullet as the 357 (0.357 diameter or maybe 0.358 for cast bullets). Any name brand will do fine for training.

Have fun!

[FITASC]

Your gun will safely chamber and shoot 38 Special (less cost and recoil) and the more powerful (and costly) 357 magnum

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Pay attention because there is going to be a quiz.

When metallic cartridges were first developed around the middle of the 19th Century, most of them used what is called a Heeled Bullet. The outside diameter of the bullet was the same as the outside diameter of the brass.

Cartridge brass generally runs around .010 thick or so at the case mouth, the part where the bullet is inserted. The rear of the bullet was slightly narrower so it could be inserted into the brass case. So those early bullets had to be about .020 smaller in diameter at the rear in order to be inserted into the brass case. The narrower portion at the rear of the bullet was called the heel.

The only common cartridge still manufactured with heeled bullets today are the 22 Rimfire cartridges, 22 Short, 22 Long, and 22 Long Rifle.

In this photo, a 22 Short, 22 Long, and 22 Long Rifle cartridge have been cut down the middle. If you look carefully you can see the narrower heel of each bullet inside each case.






Bullets are what is called an interference fit inside a rifled barrel. They are actually ever so slightly larger in diameter than the groove diameter of the barrel. The bullet squeezes down slightly as it goes through the barrel so the rifling can dig in and get a good grip on the bullet. This is so the rifling can give the bullet a good spin to stabilize it in flight. Bullets need to be lubricated so friction does not cause enough heat to begin to melt the lead. They need to carry some sort of wax or grease on the outer diameter where the rifling engages the bullet.

The problem with heeled bullets was the lubrication was applied directly to the outside of the bullet. In those days, ammunition was loaded with Black Powder, and the bullet lube was soft and gooey. If cartridges were kept loose in a pocket, or rolling around in a drawer, the soft lube tended to pick up lint and contamination.

This is a photo of some old 44 caliber cartridges. From left to right they are 44 S&W American, 3 44 Russian cartridges, 44 Special and 44 Magnum. Notice the one on the far left, the 44 S&W American. It uses a heeled bullet. You can see a lube groove just above the case mouth, but most of the lube has dried out by now. Notice the bullet is the same diameter as the brass case. The next cartridge, the 44 Russian, was the first cartridge where the entire bullet was the same diameter as the inside of the brass case. The Russian government had a contract with Smith and Wesson to supply thousands of revolvers. But the Russians specified they did not want an outside lubricated bullet. By making the bullet the same diameter as the inside of the brass case, bullet lube could be applied to grooves on the diameter of the bullet, but the grooves and their lube would be inside the case. All five cartridges on the right of the photo have bullets whose outside diameter is the same as the inside diameter of the brass case. Look carefully and you will see there is a noticeable difference between the diameters of brass cases and the diameters of the bullets. Notice too the 44 Magnum cartridge is considerably longer than the 44 Special cartridge. Are you starting to get the idea?






The 38 Special cartridge was developed by Smith and Wesson in 1898. It always had an inside lubricated bullet that was .357 in diameter. The case was about .375 in diameter, so it was called the 38 Special, because of the case diameter. (Small aside: there is absolutely no standard system of nomenclature for cartridges. Whoever develops it gets to call it what ever he likes.)

The chambers (the part of the cylinder where you put the cartridges) was wide enough for the brass to slide in nicely. But at the front of the chamber, where the bullet would rest before being fired, the chamber was narrower, just slightly larger than the bullet. This narrow section of the chamber is called the chamber throat. It is a common feature to most modern firearms.

By the time of the Roaring Twenties and automobile equipped gangsters, police started complaining that their standard 38 Special ammunition did not have enough power to punch through a car body and disable the gangsters inside. Forget the bit about going through the engine block, that is mostly myth.

So in 1930 Smith and Wesson came out with a much more powerful 38 Special cartridge. So powerful that it would probably have blown up the cylinders in the standard 38 Special revolvers of the day.

The standard 38 Special revolvers had been built on a frame called the K frame. This was the perfect size for a six shot revolver chambered for the 38 Special cartridge. But the engineers at S&W were afraid if they put the new high velocity police round in a standard K frame Smith they might blow up the cylinder. S&W was building larger revolvers at this time, mostly 44 caliber revolvers, with a bigger cylinder in bigger frame, called the N frame. So it made perfect sense to build a new 38 Special revolver on the larger N frame and chamber it for 38 Special. The bigger cylinder would leave more metal between chambers than the smaller K frame cylinder would.

Like this. A K frame Model 19 on the left, a N frame Model 27 on the right. Notice how much more metal there is between chambers in the cylinder on the right.






The new revolver was made in two versions, one with fixed sights and one with adjustable sights. The fixed sight version was called the 38/44 Heavy Duty, the adjustable sight version was called the 38/44 Outdoorsman. 38/44 meant they were 38 caliber revolvers built on the N frame, which was usually reserved for 44 caliber cartridges.

This is a 38/44 Outdoorsman. Notice the marking on the barrel says 38 Special. Yeah, it says 38 S&W Special, because S&W liked to rub it in that they had developed the cartridge. Other companies simply marked their barrels 38 Special. Two different names for the same cartridge. What did I say about nomenclature? Sorry I don't have a comparison photo to show how much bigger the 38/44 is than a standard 38 Special revolver, you will have to trust me when I say it is.






What does all this have to do with what the lady in the gun shop was trying to explain to you? S&W was concerned that somebody might accidentally slip the high powered 38 Special ammo into a standard 38 Special revolver, and blow it up. So in 1935 they lengthened the cartridge case by about 1/10" and gave the new cartridge the name 357 Magnum. Confusing huh? Same .357 diameter bullet. The case was the same, except about 1/10" longer. A new revolver was made in 1935, specifically for the new 357 Magnum Cartridge. Based on the earlier 38/44 Outdoorsman, the chief difference was the holes in the cylinder where the cartridge case sits were bored about 1/10" longer than the holes in a standard 38 Special cylinder. The cylinder and frame were still big and strong enough for the new 357 Magnum cartridge. Shorter standard 38 Special ammunition could also be fired in it, because the bullet would simply sit in the wider part of the chamber.

The new revolver was called...........wait for it.........The 357 Magnum.

One more photo. Left to right, the cartridges in this photo are 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, and 357 Magnum. The 38 S&W cartridge is an older cartridge, and it will not fit properly in a 38 Special or 357 Magnum chamber. The 38 Long Colt is an old Black Powder cartridge with a heeled bullet. But for our purposes, the 38 Special and the 357 Magnum cartridge clearly show how the chamber for the 357 Magnum had to be longer than the 38 Special cartridge. And this photo should also demonstrate why a 357 Magnum cartridge cannot be fully seated in a standard 38 Special revolver.






OK, bonus points question on the quiz.

Why was the name Magnum chosen for the new cartridge and revolver?

[Hawg]

A Python for a first gun. You're off to a great start.

[shoebox1.1]

Amen hawg!

[dgludwig]

A Python for a first gun is akin to a Ferrari for a first car. Be interesting to see what his first auto pistol turns out to be.

[stephen426]

Congrats and welcome to the forum. Getting a revolver as a first gun was probably a safe and wise decision. I’m glad that you are getting training as well. Others have ready answers your question regarding the .38 Special being safe to fire out of your.357 Magnum. Best of luck to you and stay safe!

[HighValleyRanch]

For something like a Colt python, I would suggest using snap caps in the chambers so that you can practice dry firing to your hearts content. In fact dry firing is exactly what you should do for a while before even going to the range. If you can keep the front blade centered in the rear sight notch, you are on the way to already having a perfect shot. Use a blank paper to begin with. Do not use a bulleye on the paper. Using a blank paper allows you to focus on the sight alignment instead of the sight picture. Just keep that notch centered and work on your trigger pull, both single action and double action.

Practice both one handed and two handed. Try different stances, isosoles, weaver, and modified weaver to see what is more comfortable for you. You can practice 90 percent of all manipulations in the comfort of your home. The range is the other 10 percent.

[Nick_C_S]

A Python for a first gun. You're off to a great start.

My first gun too. Purchased new 9/3/83. It's truly a Cadillac revolver (if that expression still means anything these days). Still have it.

[cdoc42]

I'l add one thing to HighValleyRanch's recommendations:

" I would suggest using snap caps in the chambers so that you can practice dry firing to your hearts content. Just keep that notch centered and work on your trigger pull, both single action and double action."

If there is a flat spot somewhere on the top of that revolver, put a quarter on it, aim as described and concentrate on trigger pull so the quarter does not fall off the gun when the hammer is released. Obviously aim free-hand without the gun being placed on any kind of rest.

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by dgludwig

A Python for a first gun is akin to a Ferrari for a first car. Be interesting to see what his first auto pistol turns out to be.

Probably be a Desert Eagle .50 AE.

[dgludwig]

With jeweled mud flaps on the grip and a foxtail on the front sight.

[BourbonCowboy]

It's good to see another Python owner on the forum.

While you can shoot both .357 magnum and standard .38 Special rounds, you also have some other options - such as .38 +P rounds. Some .38 revolvers can't handle the additional pressure of the +P rounds. I won't shoot them in my Charter Arms Off Duty .38. But that Python is a beast, and can handle just about anything you feed it.

It doesn't matter how you configure your rounds in the cylinder, but the difference in recoil will definitely let you know what you fired.

I would also recommend that you get a box of home defense rounds (if you can find them), but only use the cheap stuff at the range.

I would also recommend a nice pistol rug. You've got fine pistol, and you need to protect it.

[44 AMP]

A Python for a first gun is akin to a Ferrari for a first car.

Not exactly, they're still making Ferraris...

Congratulations! Pythons are premium revolvers, finely fit and finished. They have a reputation for being out standingly well made, and hand fit and finished.

Colt's top of the line DA revolver their "flagship" model until they stopped making them.

SO, take care of it, I think Colt no longer can, and there are only a handful of pistolsmiths in the country who will work on them, assuming needed parts can even be obtained.

First guns get handled a lot, as they're new to you, and something neat.
Nothing wrong with that...

But do resist any desire to take it apart "to see how it works" and absolutely ignore any "internet advice" or U-tube instructions on how to "improve" it.

If it didn't come with the owner's manual, see about getting a copy, even as a computer file it would be useful to you.

Welcome to gun ownership, and welcome to the forum!

Get some training on how to use the gun, and get some qualified training on when to use the gun and when not to. Using deadly force in self defense is legal but only when justified under the law(s). Learn what is, and isn't justified from someone with legal credentials, not "the guys at the club" or "a friend who has a cousin who is a cop".

Gun ownership is a serious responsibility, and at first seems like a lot to learn, just take it in in small amounts at first, first and foremost, focus on SAFETY.

Get that down, the rest will follow.

There's a few centuries worth of experience among the people on this forum, and we're here and happy to answer any questions. We ALL started out at "square one", and we're here to help.

Do be aware of information overload. Happens arounds here, sometimes

[DaleA]

Python 2020---you say you've got two private lessons coming up, that is a VERY GOOD THING. My advice would be to ask a LOT of questions and when you don't understand part of the answer then ask about that too.

I do NOT know if this applies to you or not but I've met people in classes that were just "too cool for school" and wouldn't risk asking a question for fear of looking dumb. You're paying for the lessons, get the most "bang" for your buck out of them!

I had one instructor that wouldn't handle any student's gun until the student showed him how to check and see that it was unloaded. For me it was a good learning experience. The guy didn't assume he knew everything about every gun out there in the world and he told us and showed us we should not assume we did either.

Good luck.

[Hal]

Why was the name Magnum chosen for the new cartridge and revolver?

According to Phillip Sharpe - Colonel Wesson wanted it that way.

Sharpe mentions this in his 1937 Complete Guide to Handloading (really, really, really good read BTW - it can be downloaded here)

[Driftwood Johnson]

According to Phillip Sharpe - Colonel Wesson wanted it that way.

Correct. Douglas Wesson, Daniel Wesson's grandson and Vice President of S&W at the time was a big promoter of the new 357 Magnum revolver and cartridge. He went on highly publicized hunting tips all over the world using the new revolver to bring down all sorts of game.

The way I heard it, Wesson was a wine connoisseur, and the word Magnum denotes a big bottle of wine.

[10-96]

Python2020-

and enjoyed the weird feeling of peace while concentrating on my target

Ah-ha! That's called "getting into the mental zone". If you dig that and want to build on it, I'd like to suggest to you "Zen In The Art of Shooting". http://www.bullseyepistol.com/zeninfo.htm
It may not be for everybody, and you certainly don't have to go all out learning the Japanese terms, but it is a good read and cheap stress therapy.

[Hal]

Good thing you didn't ask this a month ago!

I downloaded a copy of Phillip E. Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading & read in there where he attributed the name to Wesson .

[44 AMP]

Why was the name Magnum chosen for the new cartridge and revolver?

Other than the obvious "because they wanted to"?? its because it was a larger than standard "bottle".

The term "magnum" has been in use in the wine industry for a long time, and it denotes a larger than standard size bottle.

The term was introduced to the shooting world by the British gunmakers Holland and Holland with their new .375 H&H Magnum round about 1912. And again in 1925 with the .300 H&H Magnum.

The term had a marketing appeal, and was technically accurate as the rounds had "bottles" (cases) larger than other rounds.

when S&W introduced the .357 in 1935, the case was longer than the standard .38 Special, so "Magnum" was appropriate.

[ballardw]

Latin makes anything snazzier. Magnum derived from Latin for "great"

.357 Great anyone?

and the .357 Maximum also went to Latin for "largest".

[GaryED50]

Welcome to the forum. Like you my first Modern gun was a 357 magnum. No where near the quality of yours but close enough.

Gary

[Hal]

The term was introduced to the shooting world by the British gunmakers Holland and Holland with their new .375 H&H Magnum round about 1912

Actually - the .500/450 Magnum Nitro Express and the .500/450 Black Powder Magnum Express cartridges were the first to use the name "magnum". That was somewhere around 1870 or so.

H&H is given credit though - probably because of the success of the .375