Preferred carry/duty round in .40S&W

P71pilot · February 21, 2016, 09:50 PM

I recently bought a Walther PPQ M2 .40 semi automatic striker fired handgun and have fired about 300-400rds through it in the 2 months I have had it. I starting to get used to the trigger and recoil as compared to 1911 which is my baby. But the 1911 is just too heavy to carry for little ole me and doesn't hold quite the capacity I want in a full size/duty size handgun.

So I am going to carry this PPQ and practice with it at least twice a month at least 50rds per session and become accurate with it. I have shot mostly 165gr fmj target loads (blazer brass, winchester white box) but have also shot about 3 boxes of different 180gr Ioads (fiocchi, maxxtech (cheap bosnian), and Sellier & bellot).
I think my PPQ or at least I shoot better with heavier bullets. although to me the 180gr loads have a harsher recoil in such a light gun.

Anyways, I need to pick some JHP carry rounds to try, and of course will make sure they feed well and are accurate in my gun first. I am aware the primary choices are Speer good dots (165-180), federal HST (any weight), hornady (critical duty, and defense), Remington golden sabers (any weight), and Winchester (pdxi, ranger t any weight)

I honestly prefer penetration over expansion and under penetration. I also prefer heavier bullets to lighter bullets; if I ever have to shoot dinner or defend myself from a rabid black bear or shoot through hard objects, I like having greater weight over greater speed.

On testing videos I have noticed that hornady critical duty loads can penetrate roughly 15" in gel. This is about the maximum depth I have seen in FBI STYLE testing with quality JHP .40S&W.
My question, is there a JHP load that penetrates even deeper? (Would probably be 180gr and would probably be bonded) I am looking for an all purpose load that penetrates deeply rather than expands to .80"

I would like see 18" + out of a .40s&W JHP that opens to at least .50"

So those of you that carry/ shoot .40S&W, what is your preferred carry JHP load, and why? Also what do you think would work well for me, wanting penetration over expansion. I am fairly new at this but have done tons of research and know a fair amount about ballistics. May even start reloading soon

Sarge · February 21, 2016, 10:02 PM

180 grain Federal HST.

1-DAB · February 21, 2016, 10:06 PM

The FBI requires that round penetrate at least 12", but no more than 18", to minimize shoot throughs. I'll stick with Hornady critical duty.

P71pilot · February 21, 2016, 10:51 PM

Right now I currently have 1 box of Winchester PDX1 180gr bonded JHP, have not test fired any yet. I also have about 10 Fiocchi 180gr JHP (cheapos) that have proven to be accurate and feed perfectly in my pistol, that is what resides in my mag for home defense. Have not received CHL in mail yet. I am familiar with the FBIs testing protocol, and I am not concerned about over penetration, I would rather have more than less, I will pick more damage and more blood loss over the ever tiny percentage of chance that I hit someone unintentionally. And any property damage can be taken care of. I fully realise the risk of carrying and using a handgun. If I am going to carry a deadly weapon, I want as much lethality as possible. I think very very very few bystanders are injured or killed in police shootings, with as many misses as there are let alone pass throughs. To me- OVERpenetration is OVERthought

pblanc · February 22, 2016, 10:52 AM

Federal HST 180gr.

BarryLee · February 22, 2016, 10:59 AM

I’ve used the PDX1 in several of my handguns including my HK USP40 and have been happy with the performance. I will freely admit that other than some casual observation of how it impacted some plywood I haven’t done any real controlled comparison/evaluation of the round.

mavracer · February 22, 2016, 11:12 AM

As long as the rounds pass the FBI protocol it doesn't matter much to me which one it is so I get whatever LE over run/surplus I can find cheap. for 40 S&W I found a bunch of the FBI contract Winchester Ranger 180gr.

Cheapshooter · February 22, 2016, 11:53 AM

Speer Gold Dot 180 gr.
A bit short of your overly optimistic 18" penetration at 14.25", but still over 2" deeper than what has become the standard protocol. Exceptional expansion over.60 exceeding your target number.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yLI-TeuqCnQ

Sharkbite · February 22, 2016, 02:58 PM

My old agency adopted 180gn Golddots when we switched to the 40S&W in the '90s.

As one of their firearms instructors, I got to shoot bunches of that ammo, saw thousands of rounds of it fired on the range and have copies of 3 autopsies where that was the ammo used.

I am a firm believer in that round in that caliber. In fact I shoot Golddots (147gn) in my 9mm EDC now

FrankenMauser · February 22, 2016, 11:56 PM

I owned my .40 S&W (P94) for a total of 23 days.

After a bit of testing, it got loaded with Magtech 180 gr JHPs for SD/HD use.
The testing that I have seen (and the informal testing I did) showed good enough performance from the load, it ran perfectly in that pistol, and it was less than half the price of 'name brand' SD loads.

Soon thereafter, I was presented with an opportunity I could not turn down, but it necessitated liquidating the .40 S&W.

If I still had it, I'd probably be carrying the Magtech load.

Cheapshooter · February 23, 2016, 12:57 AM

Quote:

it was less than half the price of 'name brand' SD loads.

Bargain basement prices are the last thing I look for in a SD round!

FrankenMauser · February 23, 2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Bargain basement prices are the last thing I look for in a SD round!

...Says the man named Cheapshooter....

Anyway...
They cost the same amount to manufacture.

And, if you hadn't noticed, the portion of my post that you quoted was part of a list.

rodfac · February 24, 2016, 09:55 AM

Local LEO's are carrying 165's of either Speer or Federal persuasion AFAIK. Rod

Cheapshooter · February 24, 2016, 12:09 PM

Quote:

..Says the man named Cheapshooter....

LOL
Comes from my collection of inexpensive, shooter grade C&R milsurps, and other lower priced guns. I enjoy my "cheap shooters" as much as my higher priced guns.
My only ecperience with Magtech was when their turned my formally 100% reliable Colt 1991a1 Compact into a Jam-O-Matic. Maybe tyat particular gun just didn't like it. It hasn't had any problems with cheap(er) WWB fmj range ammo, Winchester PDX1, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Sabre, or my handloads.
The Magtech just left a bad impression on me. Could have been the gun, could have just as easily been a bad batch of ammo. I think I have a few rounds left. Might try them in one of my other 45s just to see.

pblanc · February 24, 2016, 02:03 PM

I have had good luck with Magtech ammo but I have only used FMJ.

The Magtech .40 S&W 180gr bonded actually performed pretty well in the lucky gunner ballistic tests.

Ben Dover · February 24, 2016, 02:49 PM

After researching as many test results as I can obtain, I have settled on the Winchester Ranger "T" series 165 grain loads.

themalicious0ne · February 24, 2016, 02:51 PM

I like Hornaday critical duty for most calibers. I haven't had issues feeding and it's performance is fairly good all around. In 40 however, I really like the federal hst. I'm of the camp of more penetration too. I know the FBI requirement is 12-18" but I don't mind being a little more as long as it isn't pushing over 20"

Look for yourself.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...ic-tests/#40SW

subhuman · February 24, 2016, 04:25 PM

the 155 and 180 grain XTP from hornady is an extremely accurate, tough, deep penetrating, controlled expansion bullet...I run the 155s in my SR40

P71pilot · February 24, 2016, 04:28 PM

Awesome article I really appreciate lucky gunner for that and the post-er for providing the link. Looks to me like federal 180gr HST will provide the best of what I am looking for. Now to locate a few boxes and make sure it feeds and shoots well from my Walther.

themalicious0ne · February 27, 2016, 03:37 AM

No problem. Granted it was only 5 rounds of each type and given your barrel length you may get different results. I like the hst because while it did not have the biggest expansion, I like it's penetration and it's consistency. I like to look at the pictures of the bullets and see how much they very.

2afreedom · February 28, 2016, 11:22 PM

With a 4 inch barrel or longer, I would pick Federal HST or Gold Dots, both in 180 grain. Lots of good choices out there though.

Tucker 1371 · February 29, 2016, 04:25 AM

I'm issued 180gr HST but I don't have any choice in that matter. Wouldn't matter anyway, I also carry 124gr HST in my 9mm carry gun. Not that it's the only good choice, it's just the conclusion I arrived at after some personal research, and Gold Dots were impossible to find at the time I was searching for 9mm carry ammo.

Stephanie B · March 7, 2016, 04:23 PM

Based on tests like Lucky Gunner did, I went with the Winchester Train & Defend (180gr) because it had enough penetration and really good expansion.

Of the ones with good expansion, it was also in stock at a LGS.

Rangerrich99 · March 7, 2016, 05:04 PM

If I remember correctly you mentioned in another thread that this gun also was going to serve as a field/woods gun. In that scenario, I think you'd be best served with a hard cast offering from either Buffalo Bore or Underwood.

If you roll your own that opens up the field to Hornady's line of hunting bullets or Nosler's.

For urban carry, any of the choices already discussed would work well. I carry Hornady's Critical Defense or Gold Dots in most of my handguns.

deadcoyote · March 7, 2016, 05:27 PM

We switch back and forth between Winchester Ranger T 180's and Federal HST 180's depending on whoever is running the cheapest deal. Both seem to work fine, can't say if they perform well in real life applications as we aren't exactly running around getting in OIS' all the time.

February 21, 2016, 09:50 PM	#1
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	Preferred carry/duty round in .40S&W I recently bought a Walther PPQ M2 .40 semi automatic striker fired handgun and have fired about 300-400rds through it in the 2 months I have had it. I starting to get used to the trigger and recoil as compared to 1911 which is my baby. But the 1911 is just too heavy to carry for little ole me and doesn't hold quite the capacity I want in a full size/duty size handgun. So I am going to carry this PPQ and practice with it at least twice a month at least 50rds per session and become accurate with it. I have shot mostly 165gr fmj target loads (blazer brass, winchester white box) but have also shot about 3 boxes of different 180gr Ioads (fiocchi, maxxtech (cheap bosnian), and Sellier & bellot). I think my PPQ or at least I shoot better with heavier bullets. although to me the 180gr loads have a harsher recoil in such a light gun. Anyways, I need to pick some JHP carry rounds to try, and of course will make sure they feed well and are accurate in my gun first. I am aware the primary choices are Speer good dots (165-180), federal HST (any weight), hornady (critical duty, and defense), Remington golden sabers (any weight), and Winchester (pdxi, ranger t any weight) I honestly prefer penetration over expansion and under penetration. I also prefer heavier bullets to lighter bullets; if I ever have to shoot dinner or defend myself from a rabid black bear or shoot through hard objects, I like having greater weight over greater speed. On testing videos I have noticed that hornady critical duty loads can penetrate roughly 15" in gel. This is about the maximum depth I have seen in FBI STYLE testing with quality JHP .40S&W. My question, is there a JHP load that penetrates even deeper? (Would probably be 180gr and would probably be bonded) I am looking for an all purpose load that penetrates deeply rather than expands to .80" I would like see 18" + out of a .40s&W JHP that opens to at least .50" So those of you that carry/ shoot .40S&W, what is your preferred carry JHP load, and why? Also what do you think would work well for me, wanting penetration over expansion. I am fairly new at this but have done tons of research and know a fair amount about ballistics. May even start reloading soon __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

February 21, 2016, 10:02 PM	#2
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	180 grain Federal HST. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

February 22, 2016, 10:59 AM	#6
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I’ve used the PDX1 in several of my handguns including my HK USP40 and have been happy with the performance. I will freely admit that other than some casual observation of how it impacted some plywood I haven’t done any real controlled comparison/evaluation of the round. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

February 22, 2016, 11:53 AM	#8
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. A bit short of your overly optimistic 18" penetration at 14.25", but still over 2" deeper than what has become the standard protocol. Exceptional expansion over.60 exceeding your target number. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yLI-TeuqCnQ __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

February 22, 2016, 11:56 PM	#10
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I owned my .40 S&W (P94) for a total of 23 days. After a bit of testing, it got loaded with Magtech 180 gr JHPs for SD/HD use. The testing that I have seen (and the informal testing I did) showed good enough performance from the load, it ran perfectly in that pistol, and it was less than half the price of 'name brand' SD loads. Soon thereafter, I was presented with an opportunity I could not turn down, but it necessitated liquidating the .40 S&W. If I still had it, I'd probably be carrying the Magtech load. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

February 21, 2016, 10:06 PM	#3
1-DAB Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2010 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 474	The FBI requires that round penetrate at least 12", but no more than 18", to minimize shoot throughs. I'll stick with Hornady critical duty.

February 21, 2016, 10:51 PM	#4
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	Right now I currently have 1 box of Winchester PDX1 180gr bonded JHP, have not test fired any yet. I also have about 10 Fiocchi 180gr JHP (cheapos) that have proven to be accurate and feed perfectly in my pistol, that is what resides in my mag for home defense. Have not received CHL in mail yet. I am familiar with the FBIs testing protocol, and I am not concerned about over penetration, I would rather have more than less, I will pick more damage and more blood loss over the ever tiny percentage of chance that I hit someone unintentionally. And any property damage can be taken care of. I fully realise the risk of carrying and using a handgun. If I am going to carry a deadly weapon, I want as much lethality as possible. I think very very very few bystanders are injured or killed in police shootings, with as many misses as there are let alone pass throughs. To me- OVERpenetration is OVERthought __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

February 22, 2016, 10:52 AM	#5
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	Federal HST 180gr.

February 22, 2016, 02:58 PM	#9
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	My old agency adopted 180gn Golddots when we switched to the 40S&W in the '90s. As one of their firearms instructors, I got to shoot bunches of that ammo, saw thousands of rounds of it fired on the range and have copies of 3 autopsies where that was the ammo used. I am a firm believer in that round in that caliber. In fact I shoot Golddots (147gn) in my 9mm EDC now

February 24, 2016, 09:55 AM	#13
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Local LEO's are carrying 165's of either Speer or Federal persuasion AFAIK. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

February 24, 2016, 02:03 PM	#15
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	I have had good luck with Magtech ammo but I have only used FMJ. The Magtech .40 S&W 180gr bonded actually performed pretty well in the lucky gunner ballistic tests.

February 24, 2016, 02:49 PM	#16
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	After researching as many test results as I can obtain, I have settled on the Winchester Ranger "T" series 165 grain loads. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

February 24, 2016, 02:51 PM	#17
themalicious0ne Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2012 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 345	I like Hornaday critical duty for most calibers. I haven't had issues feeding and it's performance is fairly good all around. In 40 however, I really like the federal hst. I'm of the camp of more penetration too. I know the FBI requirement is 12-18" but I don't mind being a little more as long as it isn't pushing over 20" Look for yourself. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...ic-tests/#40SW

February 24, 2016, 04:25 PM	#18
subhuman Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 383	the 155 and 180 grain XTP from hornady is an extremely accurate, tough, deep penetrating, controlled expansion bullet...I run the 155s in my SR40

February 24, 2016, 04:28 PM	#19
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	Awesome article I really appreciate lucky gunner for that and the post-er for providing the link. Looks to me like federal 180gr HST will provide the best of what I am looking for. Now to locate a few boxes and make sure it feeds and shoots well from my Walther. __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

February 27, 2016, 03:37 AM	#20
themalicious0ne Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2012 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 345	No problem. Granted it was only 5 rounds of each type and given your barrel length you may get different results. I like the hst because while it did not have the biggest expansion, I like it's penetration and it's consistency. I like to look at the pictures of the bullets and see how much they very.

February 28, 2016, 11:22 PM	#21
2afreedom Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2007 Location: Southern by the Grace of God Posts: 266	With a 4 inch barrel or longer, I would pick Federal HST or Gold Dots, both in 180 grain. Lots of good choices out there though.

February 29, 2016, 04:25 AM	#22
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	I'm issued 180gr HST but I don't have any choice in that matter. Wouldn't matter anyway, I also carry 124gr HST in my 9mm carry gun. Not that it's the only good choice, it's just the conclusion I arrived at after some personal research, and Gold Dots were impossible to find at the time I was searching for 9mm carry ammo. __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe

March 7, 2016, 04:23 PM	#23
Stephanie B Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2008 Location: NWern SE Missouri Posts: 339	Based on tests like Lucky Gunner did, I went with the Winchester Train & Defend (180gr) because it had enough penetration and really good expansion. Of the ones with good expansion, it was also in stock at a LGS.

March 7, 2016, 05:04 PM	#24
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	If I remember correctly you mentioned in another thread that this gun also was going to serve as a field/woods gun. In that scenario, I think you'd be best served with a hard cast offering from either Buffalo Bore or Underwood. If you roll your own that opens up the field to Hornady's line of hunting bullets or Nosler's. For urban carry, any of the choices already discussed would work well. I carry Hornady's Critical Defense or Gold Dots in most of my handguns.

March 7, 2016, 05:27 PM	#25
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	We switch back and forth between Winchester Ranger T 180's and Federal HST 180's depending on whoever is running the cheapest deal. Both seem to work fine, can't say if they perform well in real life applications as we aren't exactly running around getting in OIS' all the time.