FLR die bulging my brass

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 11:42 AM

I have a 9mm RCBS Carbide FLR die that seems to cause a bulge at just above the head on my brass. I put the shell holder all the way up and screw the die down to touch. I also tried giving it an additional 1/4 turn after touching. I cant figure it out.

Zach W. · March 5, 2012, 11:49 AM

If the brass was shot in an unsupported chamber, you might have to get a bulge buster die.

There is no way a sizing die can bulge the 9MMLuger.

Too much crimp could bulge it however.

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 11:55 AM

it is most certainly knocking them out of round. Can't measure the bulge because the opposite side goes in.

Zach W. · March 5, 2012, 11:56 AM

Then your die is out of round.

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 12:15 PM

Hard to see but after resizing the fail the wilson check guage

seating leaves base of bullet very visible

These score marks are from one of the dies. Forgot to check which one.

Zach W. · March 5, 2012, 12:57 PM

Something very wrong with those last 2 pics.

Positive you are using the correct dies?

Zach W. · March 5, 2012, 12:58 PM

And the top pic looks like an insane amount of flare.

Are you using the correct bullet diameter?

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 01:04 PM

No flaring in the top picture. That is the sizer die only. I am positive the right caliber dies. The only thing that may not be right is the seater plug which says 38 RN. It came in a bag of 2 that says 38/9mm RN - 9mm TMJ. Bullets are Zero 124gr 9mm .355 FMJ

Zach W. · March 5, 2012, 01:08 PM

Well for now I would just worry about the sizing operation.

Something major wrong. Those things have an hour glass shape to them.

They should be straight.

What is stamped on the sizer die?

Maybe you are mistakenly using the flare die and not the sizing die?

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 01:59 PM

The sizer die has the decapping pin hanging out. I set below bottom of die 3/8". Has 9mm stamped on it. I can take pics when I get home.

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 02:03 PM

It's not flaring at the top. It's actually bulging on one side and set in on the other giving it a flared look. It gives the brass a look like the ram and die aren't lining up exactly. I made sure the timing was right on the press and as far as I can tell they are lined up as good as possible. Lee Classic turret. It appears to be bulging at 11:00 looking at the press head on.

ScottRiqui · March 5, 2012, 02:17 PM

Have you used this die in this press before with no problems? Or is one or the other new to you?

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 03:37 PM

New dies. New press.

243winxb · March 5, 2012, 04:55 PM

Adjust the RCBS carbide FL die so there is 1/16" between the die & shell holder, or the thickness of a nickle coin. [COLOR="Red"] Never cam over with a carbide die, it may crack.

AllenJ · March 5, 2012, 06:27 PM

Does the loaded round chamber in your gun?

243winxb · March 5, 2012, 06:57 PM

This photo looks like you expanded & belled/flared the case mouth to much.

243winxb · March 5, 2012, 06:58 PM

This photo looks like a damaged or defective FL sizing die, possible cracked carbide ring.

243winxb · March 5, 2012, 07:02 PM

The bulge in the brass at the bullets base is normal. The wall thickness of the brass has an effect on it. If it still happens, try a different brand of brass.

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

This photo looks like you expanded & belled/flared the case mouth to much.

The cases were not expanded yet. this is just the sizing die. It's an optical illusion. It looks that way because the case bulge to the left and the divot is to the right.

Quote:

Does the loaded round chamber in your gun?

no they stick and need to be rammed out. They stick in the check gauge as well

243winxb · March 5, 2012, 10:13 PM

Maybe take some measurement of your brass. See how it compares to SAAMI standards. Other wise, i dont know.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Luger%20+P.pdf

howlnmad · March 5, 2012, 11:40 PM

You say this bulge appears at the 11 o'clock position in relation to the die? This may sound crazy but, try turning the shellholder 90° and see if it appears at the 5 o'clock position.

You all can laugh but I've seen defective shellholders do similar things.

iamdb · March 5, 2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

try turning the shellholder 90°

Genius! I will try that tomorrow.

Tim R · March 6, 2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Adjust the RCBS carbide FL die so there is 1/16" between the die & shell holder, or the thickness of a nickle coin. [COLOR="Red"] Never cam over with a carbide die, it may crack.

Not quite what RCBS said about carbide size dies.

Quote:

Install the sizing die into the reloading press. Install the shell holder and raise the ram. Adjust the sizing die so it touches the shell holder, then back off 1/16' inch or the thckness of a match book cover. tighten the locking ring with the adjustable wrench. Adjust the de-capping pin of the sizing die so it protrudes 3/16 inch below the face of the die.

Looking at pic #5,

Quote:

These score marks are from one of the dies. Forgot to check which one.

Figure out which die it is because this isn't normal.

Some times in a tapered case you might have a bulge near the base of the case. The case isn't pushed far enough in to the size die to take the bulge out. This has never affected the chambering of any 9mm I've loaded.

243winxb · March 7, 2012, 12:16 PM

Tim R.

Quote:

Not quite what RCBS said about carbide size dies.

Over the last 40 years, RCBS has changed there description & method of how to set up a carbide die. Currently, the die should contact the shell holder when at the full up position. No cam over. The ram/shell holder should never bump the die, as it may crack. RCBS has also stated, there is no need to size below the bullets base, if the round will chamber. On a straight walled case, this is like neck sizing.

brickeyee · March 7, 2012, 12:43 PM

And tapered cases sized in carbide dies always get the 'coke bottle' look after bullet seating.

The carbide is small enough to ensure adequate bullet tension.
It is smaller than required when you get below the bullet base.

Redding (IIRC) is bringing out a carbide die with two diameters of carbide inserts.
An upper carbide insert for the front of the shell and bullet tension, and a larger insert at the base of the die for the rest of the shell.

March 5, 2012, 11:42 AM	#1
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	FLR die bulging my brass I have a 9mm RCBS Carbide FLR die that seems to cause a bulge at just above the head on my brass. I put the shell holder all the way up and screw the die down to touch. I also tried giving it an additional 1/4 turn after touching. I cant figure it out. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 11:55 AM	#3
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	it is most certainly knocking them out of round. Can't measure the bulge because the opposite side goes in. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 01:04 PM	#8
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	No flaring in the top picture. That is the sizer die only. I am positive the right caliber dies. The only thing that may not be right is the seater plug which says 38 RN. It came in a bag of 2 that says 38/9mm RN - 9mm TMJ. Bullets are Zero 124gr 9mm .355 FMJ __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 01:59 PM	#10
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	The sizer die has the decapping pin hanging out. I set below bottom of die 3/8". Has 9mm stamped on it. I can take pics when I get home. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 02:03 PM	#11
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	It's not flaring at the top. It's actually bulging on one side and set in on the other giving it a flared look. It gives the brass a look like the ram and die aren't lining up exactly. I made sure the timing was right on the press and as far as I can tell they are lined up as good as possible. Lee Classic turret. It appears to be bulging at 11:00 looking at the press head on. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 11:49 AM	#2
Zach W. Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Posts: 72	If the brass was shot in an unsupported chamber, you might have to get a bulge buster die. There is no way a sizing die can bulge the 9MMLuger. Too much crimp could bulge it however.

March 5, 2012, 11:56 AM	#4
Zach W. Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Posts: 72	Then your die is out of round.

March 5, 2012, 12:15 PM	#5
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	Hard to see but after resizing the fail the wilson check guage seating leaves base of bullet very visible These score marks are from one of the dies. Forgot to check which one. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 12:57 PM	#6
Zach W. Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Posts: 72	Something very wrong with those last 2 pics. Positive you are using the correct dies?

March 5, 2012, 12:58 PM	#7
Zach W. Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Posts: 72	And the top pic looks like an insane amount of flare. Are you using the correct bullet diameter?

March 5, 2012, 01:08 PM	#9
Zach W. Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Posts: 72	Well for now I would just worry about the sizing operation. Something major wrong. Those things have an hour glass shape to them. They should be straight. What is stamped on the sizer die? Maybe you are mistakenly using the flare die and not the sizing die?

March 5, 2012, 02:17 PM	#12
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Have you used this die in this press before with no problems? Or is one or the other new to you?

March 5, 2012, 03:37 PM	#13
iamdb Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2011 Posts: 455	New dies. New press. __________________ John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

March 5, 2012, 04:55 PM	#14
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	9mm-RCBS Carbide Dies Adjust the RCBS carbide FL die so there is 1/16" between the die & shell holder, or the thickness of a nickle coin. [COLOR="Red"] Never cam over with a carbide die, it may crack. Last edited by 243winxb; March 5, 2012 at 07:04 PM.

March 5, 2012, 06:27 PM	#15
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Does the loaded round chamber in your gun?

March 5, 2012, 06:57 PM	#16
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	This photo looks like you expanded & belled/flared the case mouth to much.

March 5, 2012, 06:58 PM	#17
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	This photo looks like a damaged or defective FL sizing die, possible cracked carbide ring.

March 5, 2012, 07:02 PM	#18
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	The bulge in the brass at the bullets base is normal. The wall thickness of the brass has an effect on it. If it still happens, try a different brand of brass.

March 5, 2012, 10:13 PM	#20
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Maybe take some measurement of your brass. See how it compares to SAAMI standards. Other wise, i dont know. http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Luger%20+P.pdf

March 5, 2012, 11:40 PM	#21
howlnmad Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Location: Harriman Tn Posts: 424	You say this bulge appears at the 11 o'clock position in relation to the die? This may sound crazy but, try turning the shellholder 90° and see if it appears at the 5 o'clock position. You all can laugh but I've seen defective shellholders do similar things.

March 7, 2012, 12:43 PM	#25
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	And tapered cases sized in carbide dies always get the 'coke bottle' look after bullet seating. The carbide is small enough to ensure adequate bullet tension. It is smaller than required when you get below the bullet base. Redding (IIRC) is bringing out a carbide die with two diameters of carbide inserts. An upper carbide insert for the front of the shell and bullet tension, and a larger insert at the base of the die for the rest of the shell. Last edited by brickeyee; March 8, 2012 at 12:40 PM.