Riddle me this

[praetorian97]

I recently picked up two cases of the Federal XM855 rounds this past week.

I was taking a look at the brass and noticed a bunch of circlular punches on the primer rim. Now thanks to the fine folks here at TFL I know those were ejector marks.

I was under the impression that these were just factory rejects. But am I correct in thinking these were LC reloads?

[snuffy]

If those punch marks are around the edge of the primer pocket, they're primer crimps. Some companies use stab crimps like you're seeing instead of a plain circular ring to crimp the primer. I doubt they're reloads.

[praetorian97]

Its not the circular primer crimp. Its several (3-4) tiny circle dots.

Simliar to this.

[FrankenMauser]

That's part of the head stamp.

[praetorian97]

Thats a pic I got from another post. If I can remember tonight I will get an actual pic. The positioning seemed too random to be apart of the headstamp but I could be wrong.

[praetorian97]

Sorry about all the arrows but was trying to show the randomness.

[g.willikers]

It looks like those cases have seen repeated use in some one's gun, don't it?

[praetorian97]

On the sealed can it never says anything about being new rounds so I cant say I was bamboozled but Im thinking those arent new "reject" rounds.

[Eazmo]

It looks like those cases have seen repeated use in some one's gun, don't it?

wow, yea look kinda ruff

[grumpa72]

If you will notice the symmetry of the "punches" in relation to the head stamps, they all appear in the same place. IMO, there isn't any way that extractors Or ejector could do that. Too uniform. Oth, that brass has seen better days. Reloads? I don't think so - just brass that was abused in transfer.

[medalguy]

Those marks are found on GI ammo as well. I bought a batch of milsurp brass at govt sale last year and the LC brass nearly all had those same marks. I have no idea what they are for but that is not sign of reloading that's for sure.

[Jim243]

Looks like some one ran those through a machine gun over and over again. Did you say this was new ammo?? Who did you purchase these from? Yes, they are ejector marks. But those cases had to be really hot for the marks to go that deep. Are those your primers in the cases? Else it is remanufactured ammo you purchased. I heard a while back that LC was purchasing fired cases from the DOD, but I thought that they would just melt them down and make new cases not reload them.


Jim


AR-15 Bolt face, Extractor on the left and "Ejector on the right"

[FrankenMauser]

Those cases have seen some hard use, but the circles are not from use in a firearm.

The very lightly impressed circles (red) are from the bunter (tool used to impress the head stamp) being modified over time. At one time, those circles were raised points on the bunter, and would have left an impression like the deeper circles (green). However, they have been ground off and polished.

The yellow arrows with a red outline point to an impression of the ejector hole in the bolt, from being fired with a hot load.

[praetorian97]

These were new rounds from Sportsmans Warehouse.

[praetorian97]

Bought some American Eagle LC w/ no marks....Sorry about the size of pic. On my IPad.

[zippy13]

Perhaps Federal should be the one to answer the OP's question.

[SilentVectorX]

Frankenmauser has it exactly right. There is an ejector mark or two, but most of those are just part of the headstamp. DEFINTELY NOT RELOADED MULTIPLE TIMES. If those came off stripper clips, that would explain some of the abrasion, not to mention the fact they were fired.

1Devildog [Member]11/24/2009 2:30:20 PM
The term is SCAMP. Small Caliber Ammunition Modernization Program. The dots are used to identify the station of the rotary loading machinery that made the case. The system used is based on what is called the "octal numbering system". Each dot has a number value that in various combinations can represent each number up to 24. Various combinations of dots equal various numbers which can be tracked back the the specific station of the rotary press if there were case-related QC issues. You can also see this on some Israeli ammo, either dots or early on, numbers in place of the dots. This machinery was also sold to other countries like Taiwan, Australia, etc... but not all used the numbering element on the headstamps.

1dd

[higgite]

The ejector extends beyond the edge of the case rim. It won't make a full circle on the head. Those aren't ejector marks.

ETA: See yellow arrows in post #13 above.

[Jim243]

Strange in 20,000 rounds that I have reloaded, I have never seen cases like these. If I had to guess I would say they were shot out of something like this:

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...14_Minigun.htm

But that's just a guess since I don't own one.

Jim

[FrankenMauser]

Strange in 20,000 rounds that I have reloaded, I have never seen cases like these. If I had to guess I would say they were shot out of something like this:

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...14_Minigun.htm

But that's just a guess since I don't own one.

I actually have quite a bit of experience with brass from GE (and Dillon) miniguns. Brass "straight from the horse's mouth", so to speak. Although you can get some wear on the case heads, it's pretty rare. The disintegrating links are guided through the feed chutes by metal guides, in the center of each articulated section of the chute. Those guides keep the bullet tips and case heads from touching the chutes, except in extreme situations, or when malfunctioning.

The feeders are rotary, and can cause marks on the case head, but it is usually limited to the very edge of the rim (due to the angle at which the cartridges are fed).

Once in the minigun, the only abnormal wear will be some scoring and abrasions on the shoulder of the case, where centrifugal force pushes the cartridge against the outer wall of the "receiver" (sometimes referred to as the "safety shield", "receiver housing", or "bolt guide").

Ejections is a beast unto its own, and very situational. However, the only real damage is generally just dings and dents (mostly case mouth and shoulder); especially when brass bags are used with the minigun, to collect the expelled links and cases.

....Not that the XM214 has seen enough recent use to make its spent casings very common. They may be floating around, though, with the limited use its getting on LAVs.

I cannot even begin to ponder how many thousands of cases I had a chance to inspect, from the various points of feeding and ejection. It boggles my mind. Some of the most interesting were always from broken extractors, jammed bolts, or broken feeders, though. (Seeing 5-10 cases compressed into the space normally occupied by a single cartridge is an amazing sight.)

[Tim R]

I've got 12 reloads on some of my 223 brass which have been fired from my match AR's and none of it looks like the brass in the photo's.

[SilentVectorX]

This thread is making me realize I have to be careful with what advice I take on this forum. It's so obvious that's new ammo it's not even funny. The SCAMP machines at LCAAP leave those punch marks (minus the 2 actual ejector marks). If that ammo came on stripper clips, it would explain the scratches on the casehead.

Hey FrankenMauser, I thought the microgun was an abandoned project? Are there any fielded? Just wondering.

[FrankenMauser]

Hey FrankenMauser, I thought the microgun was an abandoned project? Are there any fielded? Just wondering.

I've heard a few reports of it being field tested on a few LAVs, again (like the Stryker).