.38spl mousefart loads

glockopop · March 25, 2008, 01:50 AM

I need a very light recoiling load for my .38s. I have a box of 500 148gr. LWCs I was just given, and I've got Clays and Universal powders on hand.

I'll be getting my CCW permit within the next month or two, and I'll be primarily carrying a S&W 640 and/or a S&W M64 with a 3" barrel. I haven't decided on what load I'll be using for carry yet, waffling between the Gold Dot short barrel "light/fast" load and the Buffalo Bore "slow/heavy" load, but I'm leaning towards the bigger bullet.

My girlfriend said to me the other night that if I'm going to be carrying she should learn how to shoot my revolvers effectively. I couldn't agree more. She is an experienced shooter, but she hasn't really fired small/compact handguns other than .22s before. When she does shoot she has a 9mm BHP, and that's about the smallest centerfire gun she's shot. Her dad's a "recoil junkie" so she's touched off some handcannons in her life, but they've always been big and recoil-absorbing.

She doesn't really like revolvers, so she said that I should load some light loads for her to start with and then work her up to the hot stuff. Did I mention that's she's smarter than me?

scsov509 · March 25, 2008, 03:36 AM

The ballistics between the Gold Dot Short Barrel and the Buffalo Bore 158 grain bullets are so comparable that it's hard to give one real strong preference over the other. I personally prefer the Gold Dot for my 642, but either round would be great as a carry round.

As far as a light load with the 148 wadcutters, Clays is great for target loads. Hodgdon lists their starting load at 2.3 grains with the bullet seated just below the case mouth. I start there and see if that doesn't give you a great little plinking load. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

If that doesn't work great for you then consider picking up a pund of Bullseye. That wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye is an excellent target load that anyone can shoot all day long. But I think Clays should work pretty good for you as well.

Thirties · March 25, 2008, 06:49 AM

aka cat sneeze . . . this is the best source:

http://www.amazon.com/Handloading-Wi...6445793&sr=1-3

buy it used, obviously. One of the chapters is called "Light Loads in a .38 special". They use Bullseye. This is one of the best books on the subject, written in 1981 or so.

farnorthdan · March 25, 2008, 12:31 PM

I use 3.0 grains of clays universal under a 148gn LWC out of my S&W 342 airlight and its a nice little paper punching round. Its a little snappy out of my airlight but probably just right out of something a little bigger.

GP100man · March 25, 2008, 07:21 PM

ive loaded clays so low under a 158 swc backwards it would`nt make it to the 25yrd target,i shot em all pick up the boolits & threw em in the smelter !

GP100man##

amamnn · March 26, 2008, 01:18 PM

The CAS folks have had considerable experience loading very light cartridges in .38 special. When the sport was young and growing a lot of people claimed to experience "detonations" with extremely light loads. Turns out what they were experiencing was double loaded powder charges. Unless you intend to weigh each and every charge, tiny drops of pistol powder can frustrate you in that way and also by bridging in volumetric measures- results: a bullet stuck in the barrel - with or without a baffle in the measure's reservoir. It's surely not inevitable that either will happen to you, but the danger is real enough that we now have bulkier powders meant to produce "mousefart" loads. Hodgon's Trailboss is one.

Personally, I don't load any cartridge at minimum, especially self defense ammo, but I do load some .32 acp and .380 acp rounds, which are pretty small charges, especially with the faster powders. I've had both problems with light powder drops in measures. Using a slower powder that more than half fills the case is one way to certainly avoid double charging. I measure each charge with the PACT scale/dispenser unit which works differently than volumetric measures. It's a slow but sure way to avoid a squib load, but I have a lot of time. RCBS makes a measure specifically for pistol powder, but I have not talked to anyone who has used it yet. Maybe someone on the forum had used it for small loads and can tell us all how it works.

FM12 · March 27, 2008, 08:50 AM

If she can handle 9mm in a BHP, the standard loading of 2.7 grains of Bullseye will be an excellent choice for her.

She sounds like a keeper to me, by the way!

Sevens · March 27, 2008, 09:54 AM

If loading on a progressive machine, I agree that double charges can be a concern. For me loading on a single stage, I have to call it impossible.

After charging a whole loading block full of cases, you hold the entire tray up to a light and look in. Any piece with a double charge stands out like a sore thumb. Either that or EVERY case in there is a double charge.

No bullets get seated or even placed on top of charged cases until I've visually checked for double or squibs charges.

The Lovemaster · March 27, 2008, 10:23 AM

I do a similar thing after charging and before bullet seating. I look at each and every case carefully with a flashlight to make danged sure none are double charged. I like my hand and my guns too much to risk a double.

zxcvbob · March 27, 2008, 11:16 AM

I just tried a new .38 load Tuesday night; 3.6 grains of Titegroup with a 158 grain wide flat nosed bullet (Lee #90692). It was a bit more energetic than what I wanted for target shooting*, but with a 125 grain bullet it would probably be nice and light.

But the real reason I'm posting this is because the Titegroup powder measured so consistently. I was worried that that tiny bit of powder wouldn't throw well, but the variance was less than 1/10 grain. I'll bet it would throw well at 2 grain charge weights.

*Rather than reduce the charge, I'm just going to practice more.

wpcexpert · March 27, 2008, 07:00 PM

I loaded some Tite Group for the .38's.(+P) I was loading 5gr even with 125gr Rem JHP. Less pop than the 9mm. I thought it was a great load for target. You can step on back if you want without much holdover. The wife really liked them.

On that note, a question I've been meaning to ask. What is the difference in a spcl and a +P case, for reloading purposes. I can't find one. The only thing is the head stamp. I've loaded the regulars as +P's and havent had any problems. I'm shooting thru a Ruger GP100 .357.

glockopop · March 27, 2008, 10:00 PM

Thanks for the info, y'all. I'm not real worried about double charges. I'm probably only going to load 25 or so light rounds for her, so I won't bother to set up the Dillon for that, I'll load them on the Rockchucker and visually check for double charges. I really don't think that she'll have much of a problem with full power defensive loads, she's shot a .45/70 Contender before, but if it makes her more comfortable with my wheelguns, I'm all for it. I may pick up some Titegroup, as I hear it's good for IDPA minor loads anyway, and I seem to be partial to Hodgdon powders.

GP100man · March 27, 2008, 11:37 PM

hp38/321 will go low also
i like hogdon powders too!!

GP100man##

March 25, 2008, 01:50 AM	#1
glockopop Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 922	.38spl mousefart loads I need a very light recoiling load for my .38s. I have a box of 500 148gr. LWCs I was just given, and I've got Clays and Universal powders on hand. I'll be getting my CCW permit within the next month or two, and I'll be primarily carrying a S&W 640 and/or a S&W M64 with a 3" barrel. I haven't decided on what load I'll be using for carry yet, waffling between the Gold Dot short barrel "light/fast" load and the Buffalo Bore "slow/heavy" load, but I'm leaning towards the bigger bullet. My girlfriend said to me the other night that if I'm going to be carrying she should learn how to shoot my revolvers effectively. I couldn't agree more. She is an experienced shooter, but she hasn't really fired small/compact handguns other than .22s before. When she does shoot she has a 9mm BHP, and that's about the smallest centerfire gun she's shot. Her dad's a "recoil junkie" so she's touched off some handcannons in her life, but they've always been big and recoil-absorbing. She doesn't really like revolvers, so she said that I should load some light loads for her to start with and then work her up to the hot stuff. Did I mention that's she's smarter than me? __________________ I've only got two hands, but I've been known to carry three Glocks. RZA Last edited by glockopop; March 25, 2008 at 09:28 PM.

March 25, 2008, 06:49 AM	#3
Thirties Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears Posts: 561	aka cat sneeze . . . this is the best source: http://www.amazon.com/Handloading-Wi...6445793&sr=1-3 buy it used, obviously. One of the chapters is called "Light Loads in a .38 special". They use Bullseye. This is one of the best books on the subject, written in 1981 or so. Last edited by Thirties; March 25, 2008 at 03:43 PM.

March 25, 2008, 12:31 PM	#4
farnorthdan Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2007 Posts: 371	clays I use 3.0 grains of clays universal under a 148gn LWC out of my S&W 342 airlight and its a nice little paper punching round. Its a little snappy out of my airlight but probably just right out of something a little bigger.

March 25, 2008, 07:21 PM	#5
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	bunny poots ive loaded clays so low under a 158 swc backwards it would`nt make it to the 25yrd target,i shot em all pick up the boolits & threw em in the smelter ! GP100man##

March 26, 2008, 01:18 PM	#6
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	The CAS folks have had considerable experience loading very light cartridges in .38 special. When the sport was young and growing a lot of people claimed to experience "detonations" with extremely light loads. Turns out what they were experiencing was double loaded powder charges. Unless you intend to weigh each and every charge, tiny drops of pistol powder can frustrate you in that way and also by bridging in volumetric measures- results: a bullet stuck in the barrel - with or without a baffle in the measure's reservoir. It's surely not inevitable that either will happen to you, but the danger is real enough that we now have bulkier powders meant to produce "mousefart" loads. Hodgon's Trailboss is one. Personally, I don't load any cartridge at minimum, especially self defense ammo, but I do load some .32 acp and .380 acp rounds, which are pretty small charges, especially with the faster powders. I've had both problems with light powder drops in measures. Using a slower powder that more than half fills the case is one way to certainly avoid double charging. I measure each charge with the PACT scale/dispenser unit which works differently than volumetric measures. It's a slow but sure way to avoid a squib load, but I have a lot of time. RCBS makes a measure specifically for pistol powder, but I have not talked to anyone who has used it yet. Maybe someone on the forum had used it for small loads and can tell us all how it works. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

March 25, 2008, 03:36 AM	#2
scsov509 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 819	The ballistics between the Gold Dot Short Barrel and the Buffalo Bore 158 grain bullets are so comparable that it's hard to give one real strong preference over the other. I personally prefer the Gold Dot for my 642, but either round would be great as a carry round. As far as a light load with the 148 wadcutters, Clays is great for target loads. Hodgdon lists their starting load at 2.3 grains with the bullet seated just below the case mouth. I start there and see if that doesn't give you a great little plinking load. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp If that doesn't work great for you then consider picking up a pund of Bullseye. That wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye is an excellent target load that anyone can shoot all day long. But I think Clays should work pretty good for you as well.

March 27, 2008, 08:50 AM	#7
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	If she can handle 9mm in a BHP, the standard loading of 2.7 grains of Bullseye will be an excellent choice for her. She sounds like a keeper to me, by the way!

March 27, 2008, 09:54 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	If loading on a progressive machine, I agree that double charges can be a concern. For me loading on a single stage, I have to call it impossible. After charging a whole loading block full of cases, you hold the entire tray up to a light and look in. Any piece with a double charge stands out like a sore thumb. Either that or EVERY case in there is a double charge. No bullets get seated or even placed on top of charged cases until I've visually checked for double or squibs charges. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 27, 2008, 10:23 AM	#9
The Lovemaster Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 416	I do a similar thing after charging and before bullet seating. I look at each and every case carefully with a flashlight to make danged sure none are double charged. I like my hand and my guns too much to risk a double.

March 27, 2008, 11:16 AM	#10
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I just tried a new .38 load Tuesday night; 3.6 grains of Titegroup with a 158 grain wide flat nosed bullet (Lee #90692). It was a bit more energetic than what I wanted for target shooting, but with a 125 grain bullet it would probably be nice and light. But the real reason I'm posting this is because the Titegroup powder measured so consistently. I was worried that that tiny bit of powder wouldn't throw well, but the variance was less than 1/10 grain. I'll bet it would throw well at 2 grain* charge weights. *Rather than reduce the charge, I'm just going to practice more. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 27, 2008, 07:00 PM	#11
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	TiteGroup I loaded some Tite Group for the .38's.(+P) I was loading 5gr even with 125gr Rem JHP. Less pop than the 9mm. I thought it was a great load for target. You can step on back if you want without much holdover. The wife really liked them. On that note, a question I've been meaning to ask. What is the difference in a spcl and a +P case, for reloading purposes. I can't find one. The only thing is the head stamp. I've loaded the regulars as +P's and havent had any problems. I'm shooting thru a Ruger GP100 .357. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

March 27, 2008, 10:00 PM	#12
glockopop Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 922	Thanks for the info, y'all. I'm not real worried about double charges. I'm probably only going to load 25 or so light rounds for her, so I won't bother to set up the Dillon for that, I'll load them on the Rockchucker and visually check for double charges. I really don't think that she'll have much of a problem with full power defensive loads, she's shot a .45/70 Contender before, but if it makes her more comfortable with my wheelguns, I'm all for it. I may pick up some Titegroup, as I hear it's good for IDPA minor loads anyway, and I seem to be partial to Hodgdon powders. __________________ I've only got two hands, but I've been known to carry three Glocks. RZA

March 27, 2008, 11:37 PM	#13
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	low hp38/321 will go low also i like hogdon powders too!! GP100man##