Release the slide on a 1911 - Page 3

F. Guffey · September 14, 2018, 09:22 AM

A smith and builder of a 1911 that won at Perry called another friend to get help. Seems the builder released the slide and put a hole through the roof of his shop.

The next friend shows up, same thing; another hole through the roof. Had one of them loaded the pistol with a full magazine one of them or both would have put 7 holes through the roof.

The big time shooter that borrowed the pistol never cleaned the pistol and was hoping the builder would forget who borrowed the pistol. The pistol was so carboned up from all of the ammo that went through it the firing pin was stuck. Once that pistol got started there was no stopping it.

F. Guffey

**44 AMP** · September 14, 2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

44AMP;

It seems you are correct.

what, again??

The reason I asked was because I've done it a few times, myself. Had the pistol "auto close" when I didn't expect it, and not something it usually did. Each time, after the "what the hell??" moment, careful re-construction of the matter showed that it was me, and not the gun that caused it.

Congratulations on having the intestinal fortitude not just to discover the truth of the matter, but also admit it on the forum.
Good job on both.

briandg · September 14, 2018, 12:09 PM

I really get tired of being right all the time here in my ordinary circle of people so sometimes I come here jut so I can be wrong once in a while.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 14, 2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briandg

I really get tired of being right all the time here in my ordinary circle of people so sometimes I come here jut so I can be wrong once in a while.

A guy I used to know sometimes commented, "People who think they're always right are SOOOO annoying to those of us who are."

**Mike Irwin** · September 14, 2018, 05:38 PM

"There has always got to be at least one bloody misfit."

Just think of me as a Revolver Highlander.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Nanuk · September 14, 2018, 05:41 PM

Slide stop. Check your 1911, with the slide locked back there is very little room to move it back further to "sling shot".

briandg · September 16, 2018, 08:36 PM

Quote:

A guy I used to know sometimes commented, "People who think they're always right are SOOOO annoying to those of us who are."

It helps if you live in an area that is known for its concentration of fools. Thank god there are occasionally people who are slightly lesser fools.

When I find a person who is exceptional it is a cherished moment.

And eventually, the guy invests in enron stock or stacks rotten firewood in his home or says "gee, maximum loadings are just guidelines." A couple of weeks ago I was talking to a neighbor whose chainsaw stopped in the middle of work.

"what mix did you use?"

"Mix?"

briandg · September 16, 2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Just think of me as a Revolver Highlander.

I think of you as a lot of things, and I certainly think of you as being much wiser and far better looking than christopher lambert. You can probably speak english.

And you won't go to a sword fight with a sword.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 16, 2018, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanuk

Slide stop. Check your 1911, with the slide locked back there is very little room to move it back further to "sling shot".

But there's enough. The pistol was designed to operate that way.

stinkeypete · September 17, 2018, 08:20 AM

As I was taught by someone that had been an Armor for one of the Army marksmanship teams..

Hold the 1911 Very Firmly. Think to yourself “it’s gonna go full auto or kaboom” and prepare for those malfunctions.

Release the slide using the thumb lever.

My relaying of his explanation may be faulty, but as I recall he said that working at a military firing range all day for years and personal putting untold rounds down range as part of various tests or for practice or competition, he said odd failures were not common but he’d seen them all.

So... safety first.

My personal opinion is the 1911 is my competition bit of sporting goods. As a fighting weapon, there are safer better modern handguns- but I shoot paper, not people.

WC145 · September 19, 2018, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkeypete

As I was taught by someone that had been an Armor for one of the Army marksmanship teams..

Hold the 1911 Very Firmly. Think to yourself “it’s gonna go full auto or kaboom” and prepare for those malfunctions.

Release the slide using the thumb lever.

My relaying of his explanation may be faulty, but as I recall he said that working at a military firing range all day for years and personal putting untold rounds down range as part of various tests or for practice or competition, he said odd failures were not common but he’d seen them all.

So... safety first.

My personal opinion is the 1911 is my competition bit of sporting goods. As a fighting weapon, there are safer better modern handguns- but I shoot paper, not people.

I don't know that there is a safer pistol than the 1911 out there. If the pistol is in condition 1 you have to disengage the thumb safety, disengage the grip safety, and then pull the trigger to fire it, don't do any one of those three things and it won't fire. If you disengage the safeties and choose not to fire just reengaging the thumb safety makes it safe, taking your hand off the grip safety so that it reengages makes it that much safer.
If there is a safer to handle handgun out there, I haven't seen it.

As far as the question at hand, I slingshot my autos, including my 1911s. That's the way I've trained for decades, it works the same with all of them.

45Gunner · September 19, 2018, 08:44 AM

Most professional training academy's that I have attended teach the slingshot method. My gunsmith who used to custom build 1911's says to use the slingshot method and thus I teach the slingshot method to my gun club students.

**44 AMP** · September 19, 2018, 09:34 PM

The advantage to teaching the slingshot method (sometimes called the Israeli method) is that it works for nearly all semi auto pistols. SO one training regimen suffices for everything, or just about.

The Israelis promoted the method because being critically short of arms they literally used everything they could get their hands on. So, a wide variety of pistols were in use as issue weapons, with a lot of difference in their operating controls and locations. And, due to the situation, there was no guarantee that the pistol you got for use today, and the one next week would be the same make, model or caliber, so the most universal method of training was used.

There are some guns where the only way to close them is to "slingshot" them. The Luger is one. There are other guns where using the slide release is actually easier (for me, at least) but slingshotting does work, though it requires both hands to do.

Ibmikey · September 20, 2018, 05:33 AM

What it boils down to girls is either method is widely used and causes the weapon to be charged and ready for action. There are those of us who carried a weapon as part of their required job tools, carried that weapon or had it close by for a career of 30+ years and on into retirement using one or the other method ( or both actually depending upon firearm) and have survived just fine.
I normally use the slide release ( terminology works for me) however, with my PPK and some of my other pistols the slide is manipulated by hand, once loaded I do not change the weapon’s status until it is safe to do so.

Brownstone322 · September 20, 2018, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerrich99

So I have a little over 20 defective guns. Good to know.

Rangerrich99, I'm with you.

I have an array of handguns -- single-action, double/single, striker-fired, including two Colt 1911s -- and I think the slides on all of them will close when you insert a magazine firmly. (And I don't mean slamming; I just mean firmly.) The reason I say "think" is because I haven't made specific correlations as to which pistols do or don't, but I know my 1911s will, and I know my Glock 19 Gen 4 will. These guns aren't defective.

Last spring I took a female friend shooting for the first time, and I gave her thorough instructions on everything she'd need to know or might encounter: handling, loading, charging, shooting, clearing, responding to duds or hang-fires ... probably more information than she could process, to be fair. And we spent a considerable amount of time on how to release the slide, because some guns are easy to "overhand" (Glock or 1911) while others are not (Beretta 92 or CZ 75).

Then I threw in this last thought: "By the way, with actual loaded mags, the slide may close on its own if you tap it in firmly. Just be aware of that." And in fact it happened to me once during our session, but I don't think it happened to her.

I didn't explain why, because to this day I don't really understand why.

Model12Win · September 20, 2018, 11:34 PM

Usage of the slide STOP as a slide RELEASE in an M1911 pistol will cause premature slide stop wear and is just begging for a malfunction when there isn’t enough force to chamber the next round.

Slingshot or overhand, girls. That’s what JMB would have wanted.

**44 AMP** · September 21, 2018, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Usage of the slide STOP as a slide RELEASE in an M1911 pistol will cause premature slide stop wear..

In over 50 years of being around 1911s, owning quite a few, and having been an Army Small Arms Repairman who handled, and inspected quite a few (hundreds, at least) I've never seen side stop wear where it was an issue to the functioning of the gun.

Quote:

and is just begging for a malfunction when there isn’t enough force to chamber the next round.

If there isn't enough force to chamber the next round with the slide closing from the hold open position, there's something wrong with the gun. Period. That extra quarter inch or so of spring compression and slide travel when you slingshot the slide shouldn't make any difference. If it does, there's something wrong with the gun.

Quote:

That’s what JMB would have wanted.

Maybe. But then why is there a serrated/checkered "shelf" on the outside of the slide stop? I don't think its there just for decoration.

Browning didn't put a thumb safety on his original prototype, only the grip safety. He didn't think a thumb safety was needed. A significant faction in the Army disagreed. Browning then added the "safety lock" (thumb safety) to the prototype that became the 1911.

Browning was the most prolific, and arguably the greatest firearms designer in the last few centuries, but he wasn't someone who made their living "on the sharp end". So his ideas of what was important wasn't always the same as people who used guns in combat. He did, however, understand that "the customer is always right", even if he personally felt they weren't.

**Mike Irwin** · September 21, 2018, 07:16 AM

"In over 50 years of being around 1911s, owning quite a few, and having been an Army Small Arms Repairman who handled, and inspected quite a few (hundreds, at least) I've never seen side stop wear where it was an issue to the functioning of the gun."

I have. One. Replacement slide stop that was way too soft and that wore over time to the point where it wouldn't hold the slide back anymore under any circumstances.

**44 AMP** · September 21, 2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

I have. One. Replacement slide stop that was way too soft and that wore over time to the point where it wouldn't hold the slide back anymore under any circumstances.

I knew there had to be some, thanks Mike.

I know there are bad parts out there, otherwise no one would bring it up. I've been (perhaps) fortunate never to have run into a bad slide stop, though I will admit that most of my experience has been with Colt commercial guns or GI 1911/A1s and GI parts.

Now, here's the question, did the bad slide stop wear and fail because it was a bad part to begin with (too soft for the intended job) OR did it fail because of the way it was used??
Meaning, did you slingshot the gun slide only? Or did you use it in the usual way, to release the slide by pushing down on the stop?

The claim has been made that using the stop as a release wears it out "prematurely". I don't think this happens with good quality parts.

I won't argue that it certainly CAN happen with crap parts, and today its tough to know if replacement parts are really quality or not.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 21, 2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model12Win

Slingshot or overhand, girls. That’s what JMB would have wanted.

See post #18.

If slingshot or overhand is what JMB would have wanted, why did he write the following in his patent application?

https://forum.m1911.org/documents/Br...1911-02-14.pdf
Page 5, first column.

Quote:

... but when the last cartridge has been fed from the magazine, the lug j^2 stands in the path of the spring-follower of the agazine, and when the breech-slide is moved to the rear above the empty magazine, the follower will raise the lug j^2 and the handle j and cause the projection l to enter the recess m in the breech-slide, thereby locking the same in the open rear position, and serving as an indicator to show that the empty magazine must be replaced by a charged one before the firing can be continued. After placing the magazine in the grip the breech-slide is released by depressing the handle j.

stagpanther · September 21, 2018, 01:39 PM

That's how my colt works.

Charlie98 · September 21, 2018, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Usage of the slide STOP as a slide RELEASE in an M1911 pistol will cause premature slide stop wear and is just begging for a malfunction when there isn’t enough force to chamber the next round.

Slingshot or overhand, girls. That’s what JMB would have wanted.

Say what???

Red Devil · September 21, 2018, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw308

With your slide in the rear position and a full magazine installed , is it best to slingshot the slide or use the slide stop lever to release the slide.

As per Clint Smith:

Administrative Handgun Load

Loading from empty

Tactical Load

Red.

Ibmikey · September 22, 2018, 10:16 PM

Mod 12, I too worked in the armory for some time when in the service where we issued 1911’s and other weapons. There was not a day when the 1911 was not cycled and returned to battery using the slide release multitudes of times. The pistols were in the armory long before my arrival and continued on long after, there were no incidents of. Premature wear of the stop or notch in the slide...in fact those pistols which were fired monthly just did not break any parts that I know of, however, magazines were a different problem.

**Mike Irwin** · September 26, 2018, 10:59 AM

"Now, here's the question, did the bad slide stop wear and fail because it was a bad part to begin with (too soft for the intended job) OR did it fail because of the way it was used??
Meaning, did you slingshot the gun slide only? Or did you use it in the usual way, to release the slide by pushing down on the stop?"

It wasn't my gun. It was a customer's who brought it into the shop for repair. He was a regular at the range attached to the shop -- with that gun.

I'd say the answer is a combination of his habitually releasing the slide with the thumb latch and the fact that the part was dead soft where it shouldn't have been because of how it was rounded over.

My guess is that that particular part simply slipped through a step in the manufacturing process.

September 14, 2018, 12:09 PM	#53
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I really get tired of being right all the time here in my ordinary circle of people so sometimes I come here jut so I can be wrong once in a while. __________________ None.

September 14, 2018, 05:38 PM	#55
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"There has always got to be at least one bloody misfit." Just think of me as a Revolver Highlander. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 14, 2018, 05:41 PM	#56
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	Slide stop. Check your 1911, with the slide locked back there is very little room to move it back further to "sling shot". __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

September 19, 2018, 08:44 AM	#62
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Most professional training academy's that I have attended teach the slingshot method. My gunsmith who used to custom build 1911's says to use the slingshot method and thus I teach the slingshot method to my gun club students. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

September 19, 2018, 09:34 PM	#63
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	The advantage to teaching the slingshot method (sometimes called the Israeli method) is that it works for nearly all semi auto pistols. SO one training regimen suffices for everything, or just about. The Israelis promoted the method because being critically short of arms they literally used everything they could get their hands on. So, a wide variety of pistols were in use as issue weapons, with a lot of difference in their operating controls and locations. And, due to the situation, there was no guarantee that the pistol you got for use today, and the one next week would be the same make, model or caliber, so the most universal method of training was used. There are some guns where the only way to close them is to "slingshot" them. The Luger is one. There are other guns where using the slide release is actually easier (for me, at least) but slingshotting does work, though it requires both hands to do. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 14, 2018, 09:22 AM	#51
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	A smith and builder of a 1911 that won at Perry called another friend to get help. Seems the builder released the slide and put a hole through the roof of his shop. The next friend shows up, same thing; another hole through the roof. Had one of them loaded the pistol with a full magazine one of them or both would have put 7 holes through the roof. The big time shooter that borrowed the pistol never cleaned the pistol and was hoping the builder would forget who borrowed the pistol. The pistol was so carboned up from all of the ammo that went through it the firing pin was stuck. Once that pistol got started there was no stopping it. F. Guffey

September 17, 2018, 08:20 AM	#60
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	As I was taught by someone that had been an Armor for one of the Army marksmanship teams.. Hold the 1911 Very Firmly. Think to yourself “it’s gonna go full auto or kaboom” and prepare for those malfunctions. Release the slide using the thumb lever. My relaying of his explanation may be faulty, but as I recall he said that working at a military firing range all day for years and personal putting untold rounds down range as part of various tests or for practice or competition, he said odd failures were not common but he’d seen them all. So... safety first. My personal opinion is the 1911 is my competition bit of sporting goods. As a fighting weapon, there are safer better modern handguns- but I shoot paper, not people.

September 20, 2018, 05:33 AM	#64
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	What it boils down to girls is either method is widely used and causes the weapon to be charged and ready for action. There are those of us who carried a weapon as part of their required job tools, carried that weapon or had it close by for a career of 30+ years and on into retirement using one or the other method ( or both actually depending upon firearm) and have survived just fine. I normally use the slide release ( terminology works for me) however, with my PPK and some of my other pistols the slide is manipulated by hand, once loaded I do not change the weapon’s status until it is safe to do so.

September 20, 2018, 11:34 PM	#66
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Usage of the slide STOP as a slide RELEASE in an M1911 pistol will cause premature slide stop wear and is just begging for a malfunction when there isn’t enough force to chamber the next round. Slingshot or overhand, girls. That’s what JMB would have wanted.

September 21, 2018, 07:16 AM	#68
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"In over 50 years of being around 1911s, owning quite a few, and having been an Army Small Arms Repairman who handled, and inspected quite a few (hundreds, at least) I've never seen side stop wear where it was an issue to the functioning of the gun." I have. One. Replacement slide stop that was way too soft and that wore over time to the point where it wouldn't hold the slide back anymore under any circumstances. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 21, 2018, 01:39 PM	#71
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	That's how my colt works. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

September 22, 2018, 10:16 PM	#74
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	Mod 12, I too worked in the armory for some time when in the service where we issued 1911’s and other weapons. There was not a day when the 1911 was not cycled and returned to battery using the slide release multitudes of times. The pistols were in the armory long before my arrival and continued on long after, there were no incidents of. Premature wear of the stop or notch in the slide...in fact those pistols which were fired monthly just did not break any parts that I know of, however, magazines were a different problem.

September 26, 2018, 10:59 AM	#75
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Now, here's the question, did the bad slide stop wear and fail because it was a bad part to begin with (too soft for the intended job) OR did it fail because of the way it was used?? Meaning, did you slingshot the gun slide only? Or did you use it in the usual way, to release the slide by pushing down on the stop?" It wasn't my gun. It was a customer's who brought it into the shop for repair. He was a regular at the range attached to the shop -- with that gun. I'd say the answer is a combination of his habitually releasing the slide with the thumb latch and the fact that the part was dead soft where it shouldn't have been because of how it was rounded over. My guess is that that particular part simply slipped through a step in the manufacturing process. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.