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Old May 24, 2018, 12:37 PM   #1
TXAZ
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Not sure this is Kosher - FTF handgun sale outside home state

A person living in "State A" (no state restrictions on gun transfers / sales) travel to a pistol match across a state line to "State B" (also no state restrictions on gun transfers / sales). At the conclusion of the match the person living in "State A" receives an offer for and agrees to sell their match pistol to a lawful resident of "State B" on the spot.
Any federal laws broken?
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Old May 24, 2018, 12:43 PM   #2
FITASC
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Yep, unless you go to a FFL in his state to do the transfer
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Old May 24, 2018, 01:05 PM   #3
carguychris
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^^^ For a modern firearm, yes.

The transaction is only lawful if the pistol is C&R eligible and the recipient is an 03 Collector FFL, or the pistol is a legal antique (pre-1899 or a BP replica that can't fire standard commercially available fixed cartridges).
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Last edited by carguychris; May 24, 2018 at 01:09 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old May 24, 2018, 02:00 PM   #4
Spats McGee
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Assuming that it's not a C&R item, this would violate federal law, which says:
Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful-- . . . .(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

18 U.S.C.A. § 922 (West)(emphasis supplied)
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Old May 25, 2018, 12:21 PM   #5
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXAZ
A person living in "State A" (no state restrictions on gun transfers / sales) travel to a pistol match across a state line to "State B" (also no state restrictions on gun transfers / sales). At the conclusion of the match the person living in "State A" receives an offer for and agrees to sell their match pistol to a lawful resident of "State B" on the spot.
Any federal laws broken?
As the others have said, federal law would be violated unless the transfer is done through an FFL in State B (or the transfer is of a C&R gun to a C&R licensee).

This might be a good time to review federal law on interstate transfers.
  1. Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  6. Here's what the statutes say:
    Quote:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ...
  7. Violation of these federal laws is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It also results in a lifetime loss of gun rights.
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Old May 26, 2018, 06:46 AM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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Just to pile on, these laws are enforced even against people with no prior criminal record and the current attorney general has made enforcing gun laws on purchases a priority for the DOJ.
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Old May 26, 2018, 01:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
Just to pile on, these laws are enforced even against people with no prior criminal record and the current attorney general has made enforcing gun laws on purchases a priority for the DOJ.
As he should. I was brought up to believe that a law that is not enforced, or is enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, is worse than no law at all. There should be no new gun control laws enacted until ALL the existing laws are enforced, uniformly and completely. Unless and until we do that, it's ridiculous to claim that we need more laws (that also probably won't be enforced).
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