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Old June 15, 2018, 02:15 AM   #26
Hal
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Quote:
The heck they didn't.
Demjanjuk died in a nursing home in Germany awaiting appeal of his conviction.
Correct - he was awaiting appeal.....which as his son says below, meant the verdict wasn't yet official...

Quote:
Mr. Demjanjuk’s son, however, said that under German law, a conviction is not official until appeals are completed, and that his father’s death had the effect of “voiding” the Munich verdict.
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Old June 15, 2018, 11:29 PM   #27
Double Naught Spy
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The link YOU provided says he was convicted. You can't claim the charges never stuck when the man was CONVICTED.

Contrary to the claim of the son, the conviction is still official. Demjanjuk died convicted. The judgment would not become legally effective (meaning his sentence would not be carried out) until the appeals process is over, but the conviction stands.

He might have beat prison time, but he didn't beat the conviction.
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Old June 16, 2018, 06:16 AM   #28
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He then loaded some .22 caliber shot shells (I think you call them
birdshot? Sorry, I am not a shotgun person at all) and quickly
emptied 7 rounds into the room without aiming.
Buckshot rounds (in 12 gauge, et. al.) are not generally referred to as "birdshot". In traditional terms, "birdshot" was the smaller hardened ("chilled") shot actually used on waterfowl and upland game (birds) whereas the shot sizes referred to as "buckshot" were un-hardened, swaged pellets intended for bigger game. I do not know if some of the archaic sizes (eg. "swan shot", etc. were soft (swaged or harded)). Nevertheless, Unless it was some specialized shotshell round, it was not likely a ".22 caliber shotshell", but was likely a #4 buckshot round the instructor demonstrated...which has pellets of .24 diameter, not .22. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by dahermit; June 16, 2018 at 07:33 AM.
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Old June 16, 2018, 08:10 AM   #29
Hal
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German law:

"Conviction
If the accused is convicted the court usually will credit the entire period of pre-trial confinement. For many crimes a probation period of two to five years is often imposed on first offenders. Depending on the crime, of course, prison terms can range from one month to life; though in practice sentences seldom exceed 15 years.

Fines can be levied for violations of traffic, environmental, consumer protection and unfair competition laws. Also, objects used in the violation of a law (a car, for example) may be confiscated.

Confinement begins immediately after the judgment of the court is announced at trial, unless an appeal is pending. In this case the judgment doesn’t become legally effective until and unless the appeal is denied or withdrawn.

Appeals
Although German law protects the accused from being repeatedly prosecuted or subjected to double jeopardy, the prosecution as well as the defense may appeal a court judgment, and such an appeal by the prosecution is not considered double jeopardy. Notification for appeal must be submitted within one week after the oral announcement of the court’s judgment. A brief supporting the appeal must be submitted within 30 days."

In the Wiki I linked to it says this - in these exact words "Demjanjuk was convicted pending appeal by an ordinary German criminal court"
"Pending appeal" - which mens the verdit wasn't as yet final - which is exactly what I said above - none of the charges really stuck...

Quote:
but the conviction stands.
Uh...no....the conviction is simply an ongoing part of the process - -under German law.
US law? You probably have a point, but, that doesn't apply.
The man died - not in prison, but, as a free man in a nursing home.
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Old June 16, 2018, 10:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
"Pending appeal" - which mens the verdit wasn't as yet final - which is exactly what I said above - none of the charges really stuck...
Horsehockey.
The verdict was guilty. And that's why the VERDICT was appealed.
If the verdict was not guilty, then you could make the argument that the charges didn't "stick".

Demjanjuk wasn't "a free man".....he wasn't allowed to leave Germany until the conclusion of his appeals process. The court allowed him to stay in a nursing home in a situation similar to house arrest.
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Old June 16, 2018, 11:33 AM   #31
Hal
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You know - the people in this forum will argue the most trivial bull crap like thei lives depend on it...

Fine - you all are experts on German law so I guess the verdict is in.....


I'm done with this rat hole for good.

I really wanted to make it to 20 years here but - this place has turned into a sewer....
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Old June 16, 2018, 01:21 PM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
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Who gives a crap about these guys in context of the OP.
Closed!!
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