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Old January 15, 2017, 12:21 PM   #1
detroiter711
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Uberti 1851 London

So I am seriously considering this piece or maybe even a pair. However, I have heard that Uberti's colt designs can suffer from a short arbor. Is this still the case? Is it so problematic that it impairs function? I guess I just struggle with Uberti being a quality manufacturer of firearms that this would be so prevalent.
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Old January 15, 2017, 01:10 PM   #2
JACKlangrishe
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From what I've read about Uberti revolvers, the short arbor issue does pop up a lot, that said.. they may have already taken steps to remedy the issue. Some of the reports online are from a while back.

It should be part of your checklist when you get the revolvers, so I suspect any issues could be taken care of by the manufacturer. If not, I've read everything from shims to JB Weld to fit to the arbor. Also Mike, 45 Dragoon, does a great tune up that allows you to adjust the fit with a screw (I think), among many other improvements.

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; January 15, 2017 at 01:30 PM.
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Old January 15, 2017, 01:14 PM   #3
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Short Arbors are still a thing AFAIK - some are better than ohers. Haven't bought a new Uberti lately. It is not so problematic that it impairs function. You could shoot thousands of rounds with a short arbored pistol with the only indication being POA not close to POI.
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Old January 15, 2017, 03:00 PM   #4
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Yes they're all still like that. It doesn't impair function unless you drive the wedge in too deep. If you do that it binds the cylinder against the forcing cone. With a short arbor the wedge takes all the recoil. It's a pretty easy fix. Just shim the bottom of the arbor hole or put shims on the end of the arbor or you could D&T the end of the arbor for a set screw.
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Old January 15, 2017, 05:33 PM   #5
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^^^^^ +1

Thanks, Hawg.

With a correct arbor-to-barrel-lug-recess fit, one needs not to "hammer" in the wedge as the cylinder/forcing cone fit/gap is not dependent on the wedge position in the arbor slot.

A properly fitted wedge will allow the arbor to be seated against the bottom of the recess and it will not pop out upon firing if the right side of wedge spring protrudes enough to catch the right side of the barrel lug. It will also be able to be seated in the slot with firm thumb pressure and will be able to be removed without tools by depressing the wedge spring at the same time as pushing the wedge to the left.

I have 3 Pietta 1851 Navy .36 type pistols (2nd Model, 3rd Model, and G&G) with good arbor fit (from the factory) that are capable of this, after I fitted the wedges.

Goon (Mike) may disagree somewhat with my take, but he is the master, IMO, to perfect C&B revolvers. If you send your pistol to him it will come back with perfect timing, proper arbor fit, probably a cap post, and other wonderful things. I would send my three in but I don't have the extra funds that some of you younger folks have.

If you give him a phone call, and he has the time, he will talk your ear off with free info. He is that nice of an experienced guy. If so, PAY ATENTION and take notes!

http://www.goonsgunworks.com/

Jim
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Last edited by AKexpat; January 15, 2017 at 05:58 PM.
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Old January 15, 2017, 05:57 PM   #6
detroiter711
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Maybe I am better of going with a Pietta 1851 then. Do they make a London model?
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Old January 15, 2017, 06:17 PM   #7
JACKlangrishe
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looks like they sure do..

http://www.pietta.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/6.jpg



http://www.pietta.it/en/prodotto/1851-steel/

"and the LONDON Model, with steel backstrap and triggerguard, like the ones produced from 1853 to 1856 in the city it was named after."

I don't have a London, but I do have a Pietta and they're beautiful revolvers. Timing and arbor fit arrived spot on.

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; January 15, 2017 at 06:26 PM.
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Old January 15, 2017, 06:23 PM   #8
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Yeah http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/...RREL-p1813.htm

The short arbor on the Uberti is an easy fix tho.
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Old January 15, 2017, 06:24 PM   #9
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This is a Pietta 1851 Navy .36 London with the plated TG and BS, although they don't call it a London Model.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...k1u6qme81548u4

If you go to the Dixie catalog, do not rely on their headline descriptions; rather, go by the product numbers.

And, it is on sale right now! If you like, go for it! Dixie never sells cheap, er, inexpensive. Best deal I have seen from Dixie in years. They hardly ever budge.

You might want to inquire what the date code is. The pistol pictured has the infamous Pietta "tail (date code [CM] 2014 or earlier). Pietta has not made this style grip frame since then. If it is a newer pistol (date code [CN] or newer) it will be their more "conventional" grip style, whatever that is, and I own two of that genre.

Even if it is the older "tail" style, Pietta is not producing them anymore. Collector's item for sure.

Here is the difference.





Good luck!

Jim
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Last edited by AKexpat; January 15, 2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Old January 15, 2017, 06:27 PM   #10
44 Dave
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My Uberti '51 London came with nice tight barrel/cylinder gap and timing and every thing else right on. The arbor length is not rocket science just shim hole in barrel till the wedge pulls the barrel tight and doesn't change the cylinder gap. I like small washers, one filed down for final thickness, the washer hole gives the J B room to flow. The hole, both Pietta and Uberti, in the barrel is not done with an end mill, there is a slight shoulder in the bottom to take in to account when fitting, Then grease the arbor, clean the hole and shims, glue and assemble.
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Old January 15, 2017, 06:58 PM   #11
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44 Dave,

Sounds like you have it down pat.

Goon would be proud, but I am sure he would add extras to your post and mine.

Enjoy your Uberti, sir.

Jim
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Old January 15, 2017, 10:21 PM   #12
44 Dave
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O yes it got a cap rake, bolt block, action stop. and some spring work also.
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:21 AM   #13
45 Dragoon
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Ha!!

Yes Jim, Dave and I have talked . . . . . a little !! Lol!!

Jim, thanks for the Kudos!!

Jack, the adjustable screw is for the wedge, not the arbor length. Folks tend to get this confused. Once the arbor length is fixed, it's fixed, there's no need for any adjustment. You gain access to the set screw through the end of the arbor. The position of the wedge can be adjusted to the users preference. If your Walker is holstered on your right, the wedge may be troublesome when re-holstering. Adjusting for the wedge to seat deeper will keep it from snagging the holster. Likewise for other open tops worn on the left.

I will say that Colts instructions say to "Drive" the wedge out and in. To me, that means more than finger tight. Light to medium loads are probably ok for " finger tight " but full time max loads with heavy bullets will loosen up a wedge that has minimum force holding it in position. I set all of my customers (and mine) revolvers up for max load usage.

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Old January 16, 2017, 12:40 AM   #14
45 Dragoon
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Here's a little food for thought.

The "driving" vs "finger tight" thing (Jim, I'm not picking on you ) has been bandied about for a long time.
My view comes from learning and experience. If I set an ot up for a .0025" barrel/cylinder clearance with a finger tight wedge, I promise that if I drive that same wedge in with any force, it will bind the cyl up. Metal has a certain amount of elasticity (especially within close tolerances).
Tightening the hammer screw can cause binding of the hammer movement. It's called "cheek squeeze". You'd think at the thickest part of the frame, tightening a screw wouldn't have any consequence. Some folks will get their gun " slicked up" and then assemble it with a little extra torque and end up with a sticking or sluggish hammer!! Cheek squeeze!!

Using force makes a difference.

Mike
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Last edited by 45 Dragoon; January 16, 2017 at 09:33 PM.
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:15 PM   #15
Trum4n1208
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Short arbor is still an issue, but it's an easy fix. I just jb welded some steel washers into the arbor hole (thanks for that advice, 45 Dragoon!), and then sanded the arbor a little until it was a perfect fit. My '51 London model has been a dream to shoot sense. Accurate as heck, very pleasant recoil, and no issues with caps getting stuck since I've switched out the nipples for slix-shots and stoned the rough edges off the hammer.

Go for the '51, you won't regret it.
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:36 PM   #16
JACKlangrishe
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Ahh!! That makes much more sense!
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Old January 16, 2017, 01:39 PM   #17
Hawg
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Quote:
the adjustable screw is for the wedge, not the arbor length.
But you CAN use a set screw to fix a short arbor.
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Old January 16, 2017, 04:04 PM   #18
45 Dragoon
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Yap Hawgie, lol, you COULD use a set screw but, the transfer of energy would be transmitted through a smaller conduit (the set screw) rather than a larger, more robust arbor. I wouldn't recommend the set screw method . . . . enven though you COULD use it!!

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Old January 16, 2017, 05:39 PM   #19
Hawg
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Forgive my ignorance but I don't see what real difference it would make. It's still a solid fit and a set screw certainly isn't going to give any. FWIW I fixed the arbor on my dragoon with washers.
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Old January 16, 2017, 07:46 PM   #20
AKexpat
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Sorry, Goon:

I know you have beaucoup knowledge as you make a living at, but I can't disagree with Hawg. If the set screw is set correctly using Red Loctite (or something similar), nothing is going to dislodge it.

Ever tried to remove a Red Loctited screw from ANY threaded union? It most likely will never happen. It takes a lot of heat to even try to soften that, and I would not want to do that on any repro.

You want something non-moveable/non-removeable? Try this. When I was in the trade, it was used often on new natural gas installations (no leaks), but no one wanted to go back on a repair job where it was used. It is that good for permanent thread installations.

If you want to experiment, buy some at HD along with a black iron 3/4" long nipple and an elbow. Apply the Xpando, assemble and let it sit for a few days.

Place the elbow in a strong vise and try to remove the nipple using a 24" or longer pipe wrench. If properly applied, it won't move. One will usually terribly deform the nipple in doing so.

Good luck!

http://www.xpando.com/xpando.php

Jim
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Old January 16, 2017, 07:52 PM   #21
45 Dragoon
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Well, the biggest difference is the surface contact. A 1/4" set screw has less area to contact the barrel assy compared to the circumference of the chamfered end of the arbor. Kinda like the difference between 18 gage wire and 10 gage wire. (Lamp cord vs jumper cables).

Pluse, if I use the set screw for the arbor length correction, it does away with the adjustable forward wedge bearing. I like having options.

(Good move using the shims! It looks better than junk glued to the end of the arbor!! Lol)

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Old January 16, 2017, 10:03 PM   #22
Hawg
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Pluse, if I use the set screw for the arbor length correction, it does away with the adjustable forward wedge bearing. I like having options.
Just my dinky little opinion and not trying to start anything but I don't see that as a needed thing.
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Old January 16, 2017, 10:41 PM   #23
45 Dragoon
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Oh Hawg!! I know you're not starting something!! Lol!

I found early on that making the arbor correction with shims in the arbor hole was a much neater way to do it (my opinion of course!) Then, when "fine tuning" of the barrel/cyl clearance was done (shim stack .003"-.005" too thick), I will dress the end of the arbor to arrive at .0025" (+ or - .0005"). This opens the wedge keyway enough (in some cases) to allow the wedge to be more than half its length through. On some used revolvers, the wedge would be too narrow and a new one wouldn't be a whole lot better. ( I am not in the wedge replacement or wedge making business! Lol). So, the adjustable front bearing was born which removes the need to ever replace the wedge. Not only that, as mentioned already, the user can decide what position the wedge placement suites him or her best. Again, options rule.

Mike
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:11 AM   #24
Hawg
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Gotcha
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:16 AM   #25
45 Dragoon
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Thanks buddy

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