DAO striker (or internal hammer) polymer guns

[simonrichter]

In the sheer surge of polymer-framed, G19-sized striker fired guns on the market, are there any options with either a DAO trigger or a decocker / safety combo? I don't care whether true striker fired or internal hammer, I just don't want an external hammer.

Though I was practically raised with Glocks as an Austrian, I'd still never carry one fully loaded, I'm simply not comfortable we the pre-set trigger, may that be rational or not...

[Cyanide971]

Sure are, because my CZ 100 sees lots of carry time. Most people hate it, but love mine. It’s been out of production since 2006, however, and finding one can be difficult should you choose to purchase one. It has an 8.5# long DAO trigger pull, is virtually identical in size to the Glock 19, and in 9mm it’s a 13+1 (10+1 in .40).

Another rare one that’s difficult to find is the DAO-variant Walther P99/Smith & Wesson SW99. Much easier to acquire would be their traditional DA/SA models that has a push button decocker recessed into the rear top left of the slide. Though I no longer have mine, they have excellent trigger pulls at an 8.5# DA and a very sweet 4.5-5# SA.

The Taurus striker fire pistols are also DA/DAO with having restrike capability AND an external safety, but many poo poo on them because of past reputation (though I personally had no issues with my old Gen 2 PT111 which now is designated the G3C).

Now if you really want a pistol with a trigger pull so heavy that absolutely will not fire the weapon unless you are completely set on firing, you could always find the old HK VP70. It’s in the neighborhood of a 17# pull!

[jman841]

Out of curiosity, how come you don't want an external hammer? There are some that are much lower profile than others like the HK P30 series

[simonrichter]

#3
jman841
Senior Member

Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 627
Out of curiosity, how come you don't want an external hammer? There are some that are much lower profile than others like the HK P30 series

If it's possible to avoid external moving parts, that's always preferable, I reckon. Less potential for lodging or catching dirt or debris...

[HighValleyRanch]

I believe the Smith EZ Shield .380 and 9mm are both internal hammer polymer guns.

[jman841]

Originally Posted by simonrichter

If it's possible to avoid external moving parts, that's always preferable, I reckon. Less potential for lodging or catching dirt or debris...

I'm not sure this is much of a concern. I've never heard of a well made hammer fired DA/SA pistol malfunctioning due to dirt or debris in the hammer that an internal hammer would not be susceptible to.

Many hammer fired guns, like the HK USP are renowned for their reliability and hammer fired handguns have been used by militaries and law enforcement for decades without issue (Beretta M9, CZ 75, HK USP/MK 23, etc.)

Not to mention, when holstering, you can put your thumb on the hammer and know that if the trigger ever got caught on anything while holstering, the hammer won't go rearward as your thumb can actively block it.

I would def consider a hammer fired DA/SA as it sounds like it's exactly what you're looking for but are hesitant due to a largely unfounded theory of reliability issues.

[Jim Watson]

It is obvious that you need a H&K VP70Z.

[Fishbed77]

In the sheer surge of polymer-framed, G19-sized striker fired guns on the market, are there any options with either a DAO trigger or a decocker / safety combo? I don't care whether true striker fired or internal hammer, I just don't want an external hammer.

Walter P99AS. Excellent quality pistol. Similar size/capacity to Glock 19. Striker-fired DA/SA w/ decocker. Perhaps the best stock trigger feel of any striker-fired pistol ever made.


If you can live with an exposed hammer:

CZ P07. Excellent quality pistol. Similar size/capacity to Glock 19 that comes with the parts for the user to easily swap between DA/SA w/ deckocer to DA/SA w/ manual safety.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by Cyanide971

Sure are, because my CZ 100 sees lots of carry time. Most people hate it, but love mine. It’s been out of production since 2006, however, and finding one can be difficult should you choose to purchase one. It has an 8.5# long DAO trigger pull, is virtually identical in size to the Glock 19, and in 9mm it’s a 13+1 (10+1 in .40).

I do remember the CZ-100. Mine was never reliable, broke three times during the warranty period, was never off probation, and I eventually traded it away.

Another rare one that’s difficult to find is the DAO-variant Walther P99/Smith & Wesson SW99. Much easier to acquire would be their traditional DA/SA models that has a push button decocker recessed into the rear top left of the slide. Though I no longer have mine, they have excellent trigger pulls at an 8.5# DA and a very sweet 4.5-5# SA.

The Taurus striker fire pistols are also DA/DAO with having restrike capability AND an external safety, but many poo poo on them because of past reputation (though I personally had no issues with my old Gen 2 PT111 which now is designated the G3C).

And in the Taurus guns DA only comes in to play if you've had a failure to fire. Otherwise, normal function fully cocks the striker.

[Hawg]

I believe the Smith EZ Shield .380 and 9mm are both internal hammer polymer guns.

They are but they're SAO with a grip safety similar to the 1911

[wild cat mccane]

Walther Creed/PPX is a partially cocked DOA hammer fired.

It isn't internal but lays completely flat when the slide actuates...

I think it might be one of the few.

[GarandTd]

The Canik TP9SA is a Walther P99 clone. It is striker fired with a decocker. It is considered a single action, though.

[Nakanokalronin]

The Glock system does not incorporate a pre-set striker like a SAO firearm. The Glock is a DAO system. It may not be what you're used to as being called a DAO trigger, but pulling the trigger pulls back the striker a bit before releasing it. You could call it a short DAO trigger pull. If you want a long DAO pull in your Glock, drop in a NY1 trigger spring and "-" (dash) factory connector and you'll have the DAO pull you're looking for.

[reppans]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

The Glock system does not incorporate a pre-set striker like a SAO firearm. The Glock is a DAO system. It may not be what you're used to as being called a DAO trigger, but pulling the trigger pulls back the striker a bit before releasing it. You could call it a short DAO trigger pull. If you want a long DAO pull in your Glock, drop in a NY1 trigger spring and "-" (dash) factory connector and you'll have the DAO pull you're looking for.

With a round chambered, a Glock does partially ‘cock’ its striker. Pulling the trigger pulls the striker even further and then the cruciform drops to release the striker firing the round. An armorer tested the amount of pre-tension in a Glock’s cocked striker spring and found it was enough to ignite a live primer every time.

Glocks do have the firing pin and drop safeties to protect against accidental discharges, but there are [rare] cases where broken frame rails defeated the safety features and resulted in ADs.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/ac...1/print?page=2

https://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p320-x...ure.html?amp=1

[Bfglowkey]

The Canik TP9 has a DA/SA model as well. This is taken from the CanikFantik Forum outlining the Model:

"The third variant in the DA/SA striker fired offerings from Canik is the TP9 DA. Once again Canik made some changed to the trigger as well as the slide frame. A couple obvious changes are to the slide itself, where it's squared off on the top (unlike the V2 which is more rounded), they removed the anti-glare ridges along the top (as seen on the V2 and TP9 SA) and the decocker is no longer ambi. On the original and V2, the decocker was accessible on both sides of the top of the frame, but on the DA it is right hand only. Another noticeable difference is the trigger. The DA has a blade safety designed into the trigger, unlike the original and the V2. Whether this addition is an improvement or not is debatable. Additionally, the DA is offered in black as well as burnt bronze. Looking at the pictures below, you can see the newer slide design with the non-ambi decocker. One other change that occurred with the DA is the addition of the Warren Tactical sights. A white front dot is used however, unlike the fiber obtic front on other models such as the Elite and SFx. "

If you wish to learn more about all the models they have it can be found at : https://canikfanatikforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1098

[VictorLouis]

If you mean a 'rolling' DA-pull...somewhat like a revolver...there are.

Kahr's polymer series, and Walther's CCP, albeit only in single-stack.
Gran-Power's Q1S is the G19-esque version of their Q100. Trigger will give a PPQ a run-for-the-money.

[bjw741]

Kel-Tec P-11
Polymer frame
DAO (no partial cocking)
Internal hammer

[Nakanokalronin]

If you're worried about broken frame rails or any broken part defeating a safety then don't carry a gun at all. Anything broken can cause some other part to fail. Glocks are safe and adding the NY-1 trigger and dash connector turns it into the pull you want. If you just want the feeling of being safer then pick up any DA/SA or DAO hammer fired firearm and call it a day.

[reppans]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

If you're worried about broken frame rails or any broken part defeating a safety then don't carry a gun at all. Anything broken can cause some other part to fail.

I (and apparently the OP) only worry about man-made mechanical devices/safeties failing when I know physics is absolutely reliable and has been activated (ie, spring-loading behind a live primer). Simply deactivate the physics (eg, verifiable striker/hammer-down or Israeli-carry) and the concern of mechanical failure shifts from blowing my own crotch off, to a gun that won’t fire when I need it to.

If you just want the feeling of being safer then pick up any DA/SA or DAO hammer fired firearm and call it a day.

Well, that is the point of this thread, after all.

[JohnMoses]

The sccy has everything you're looking for. True dao internal hammer , manual safety or not. they are inexpensive and come with 2 10 round mags.

[Onward Allusion]

You guys know that you can drop a NY1 or NY2 spring module into a Glock and up the trigger to 8 or 12 lbs, respectively, right?

[Nakanokalronin]

I (and apparently the OP) only worry about man-made mechanical devices/safeties failing when I know physics is absolutely reliable and has been activated (ie, spring-loading behind a live primer). Simply deactivate the physics (eg, verifiable striker/hammer-down or Israeli-carry) and the concern of mechanical failure shifts from blowing my own crotch off, to a gun that won’t fire when I need it to.

Bringing up frame rails breaking as a method of bypassing a safety system is an extreme example. I could use the same reasoning to make it seems any machine on the planet is unsafe. So you want a safe gun and the Glock is safe as-is. The NY-1 spring and dash connector will make that pull longer and safer as well. New York used them because cops switched from long DA pulls on revolvers to Glocks. They knew many of them would put their fingers on the trigger before ready to fire like they did with their revolvers. It not only increases the pull weight, but it feels exactly like a double action revolver pull. Watch the video below of a cutaway Glock and see how a it works. You'll see how it's a DAO system that doesn't reset until the slide cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc

[reppans]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

Bringing up frame rails breaking as a method of bypassing a safety system is an extreme example. I could use the same reasoning to make it seems any machine on the planet is unsafe. So you want a safe gun and the Glock is safe as-is. The NY-1 spring and dash connector will make that pull longer and safer as well. New York used them because cops switched from long DA pulls on revolvers to Glocks. They knew many of them would put their fingers on the trigger before ready to fire like they did with their revolvers. It not only increases the pull weight, but it feels exactly like a double action revolver pull. Watch the video below of a cutaway Glock and see how a it works. You'll see how it's a DAO system that doesn't reset until the slide cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThsdG0FNdc

First off I should say that I have a G19 and G26 with thousands of rounds through them and think they are awesome guns. I know very well how they work. I don’t mean to imply they are ‘unsafe’.... this thread is more about....is there something safer?

I carried my Glocks O/I WB @ 4 o’clock for years with no concern, but after converted to AIWB and violating rule #2 in the worst possible way (pointing @ femoral artery and/or junk, 24/7), I became VERY (maybe ‘overly’) concerned with a firearm’s safety features. Then, when I bend over, there’s a weird lateral pressure when my gut tries to ‘bend’ the firearm around my belt. I know the metal slide won’t bend, but the polymer frame might.... maybe enough to break a fatigued frame rail, or maybe enough to upset the precise interface between the frame-mounted trigger bar and the slide-mounted firing pin safety and striker lug? I don’t know, all it can say is that bending over makes me cringe with any type of pre-tensioned semi carried AIWB. Sort of like this popular video, although who knows if it’s a staged video, or he just has got his underwear stuck (shirt looks cleared) in the trigger guard, etc.

(EDIT: in replies to the 3rd comment on the video, one person claims to know the guy, and another with a medical aftermath quote).

https://youtu.be/Cf5cW1uh21c

For me, it simply boils down to the pure physics of spring-loading strikers or hammers behind chambered primers, which MOST ‘DAO’ semi’s do have. (The triggers are fine with me.). Simply remove that spring-loading behind a live primer and then the firearm’s safeties become much less of a concern. Does your last sentence imply that a Glock does not have enough spring pretension to ignite a chambered round (assuming the UNLIKELY mechanical failure of all safeties)?

Also, with regard to your second sentence, can you take my reasoning and explain how anything broken on a hammer-down revolver, will cause it to fire while carried AIWB? Best I can come up with is that the hammer block safety fails AND someone comes up and smacks it just right with a hammer.

[Onward Allusion]

Glocks do not have fully tensioned strikers at rest.

[reppans]

Originally Posted by Onward Allusion

Glocks do not have fully tensioned strikers at rest.

Yes, agreed.... just partially tensioned strikers, yet with enough stored energy to reliably ignite live primers ‘every time’ as an armorer tested in my link above - AND of course assuming the unlikely failure of the safeties.