6.5creed small v large primer

[ocharry]

hey guys,,i am getting a new rifle and it is going to be a 6.5 creedmoor chambering,,bolt

so i want to get some brass and do some load work,,guy asks me do i want small primer pockets or large,,,,uhhhhh,,,i dont know

been watching and reading,,,and looks to me like they both have their problems,,i am seeing small rifle pockets having ignition problem,,,and large rifle has some pocket stretching problems

i will use this gun for hunting mostly and it will be cold sometimes,,,maybe im reading to much into it

i like the idea of the small primer pocket but i dont want an ignition problem if its 20* either

but i dont want to have primers loose after 3-4 loadings,,,

so whats the wisdom of the crowd??? any of you guys and gals out there have any advise for the grass hopper

rifle is inbound later this week and i want to be ready to start working on loads for it,,,and the brass is the last thing i need,,,Graffs has either and is only a 30min drive

i probably should just pick one and run with it,,,BUT,,,i though i would ask for some pointers from you all here before i jump in the water,,,i never have had a problem with the jumping part as long as i know how deep the water is,,,lol


thanks
ocharry

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by ocharry

hey guys,,i am getting a new rifle and it is going to be a 6.5 creedmoor chambering,,bolt

so i want to get some brass and do some load work,,guy asks me do i want small primer pockets or large,,,,uhhhhh,,,i dont know

been watching and reading,,,and looks to me like they both have their problems,,i am seeing small rifle pockets having ignition problem,,,and large rifle has some pocket stretching problems

i will use this gun for hunting mostly and it will be cold sometimes,,,maybe im reading to much into it

i like the idea of the small primer pocket but i dont want an ignition problem if its 20* either

but i dont want to have primers loose after 3-4 loadings,,,

so whats the wisdom of the crowd??? any of you guys and gals out there have any advise for the grass hopper

rifle is inbound later this week and i want to be ready to start working on loads for it,,,and the brass is the last thing i need,,,Graffs has either and is only a 30min drive

i probably should just pick one and run with it,,,BUT,,,i though i would ask for some pointers from you all here before i jump in the water,,,i never have had a problem with the jumping part as long as i know how deep the water is,,,lol


thanks
ocharry

For non competition, its a no brainer; large pocket. Pocket stretching is only a problem if running over pressure. Why would 6.5 creed be any different than any other cartridge at stretching pockets? Its not.
I have shot 6.5 Creed since it came out. I have shot Hornaday large rifle pocket brass exclusively. Never had a primer pocket stretching problem.

[std7mag]

As Reynolds says, for hunting i'd go with the large primer.
Benchrest shooters typically run high in the pressure range. Small primer helps with this.
To combat ignition problems with the small primer, use a small magnum primer.

I've hunted and shot with no problems in 15°F with standard large rifle primers.
Have yet to hear "click... Oh Crap!!".

[stagpanther]

Even though I have over a thousand 6.5 and 6 large rifle creed cases--ADG and Peterson small rifle brass for me these days--they're just better IMO.

[ocharry]

Thanks guys,,, I was leaning large rifle priming ,,, and as usual you guys have shown the way

Yeah rynolds357,,never thought about that,,,makes perfect sense,,,

Lol,,just me over thinking stuff again,,,,guess the KISS rule definitely applys here for sure

Thanks again guys for the insight

Ocharry

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by std7mag

Benchrest shooters typically run high in the pressure range.

All disciplines have some people using high in the pressure reloads. Especially those reloading belted cases.

[hooligan1]

The Starline Large Primer brass is very good and very afordable, I have been using this for a year nowtesting loads and some of my brass I have loaded five times, no visible difference from new brass, pockets still tight.

[std7mag]

Good point, BartB!

[Bart B.]

I tried small magnum primers in Remington 308 Win benchrest cases in 20 degree temperatures and got 80% hang fires.

[ocharry]

thanks guys,,i will prolly run over to graffs this afternoon and pick up some brass and maybe put some stuff together just to have something to do,,,,wet and gloomy out ,,perfect day to be in the loading room

so my pea brain is telling me to get a package of starline large primer pocket brass and put some ammo together,,,lol

thanks again guys for the insight

ocharry

[T. O'Heir]

The size of your pocket has nothing to do with reliability.
Magnum primers are about the powder used. They can help in extremely low temperatures, that 15 or 20F is not, but you don't need 'em otherwise. Unless your manual says to use 'em.
"...primers loose after 3-4..." That low quality brass, not the size of the primer.
Anyway, the only small primer brass Graf's shows is Lapua, Starline and Petersen brand. All of those are about twice the price of Hornady. You can have 50 mixed head stamp used(doesn't say once fired) cases for $14.99.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...primers loose after 3-4..." That low quality brass, not the size of the primer.

Or too much pressure with high quality brass.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

For non competition, its a no brainer; large pocket. Pocket stretching is only a problem if running over pressure. Why would 6.5 creed be any different than any other cartridge at stretching pockets? Its not.
I have shot 6.5 Creed since it came out. I have shot Hornaday large rifle pocket brass exclusively. Never had a primer pocket stretching problem.

This.

Yes, in the 6.5 and 6 CMs, small primers can have some issues in cold temps, and yes, large primers running overpressure loads will open up primer pockets. With a hunting rig, it only makes sense to go with large primers. Even as a competition shooter, I can see no on target benefit to the small primers and I run large in my 6s and 6.5s. It really is a thing of making the brass last longer when running over book pressure.

[jetinteriorguy]

I tried some RE16 with 140gr ELDM's and boy did it make pressure with some high velocities. I never did go all the way up to the high end of the load, barely went past mid range when I shut it down. This was with Starline LRP brass and just the top five that I shot the primer pockets were stretched. At this point my MV was over 3000fps. This was the last time I ever went over 2750fps with any load and I've never stretched another primer pocket since. Some of these have been loaded 6 times and no issues.

[mel80]

i picked up some starline srp brass to see if it helped with some primer issues i was having

my working load in lrp brass was a 123 nosler comp bullet with 42.2g of reloader 17 mv mv is 3000fps no more primer issues with the lrp brass

onto the starline srp brass im down to 41.6g of r17 and mv of 2825-2850 and piercing primers witht he same bullet as above

no issues with the srp starline brass with 46g of r17 under a speer 90g tnt bullet moving at 3350 fps though go figure

so im going back to lrp brass for everything but my 90g varmint loads

[stagpanther]

It's your pin strike, common with creeds. Get a JP high pressure 308 bolt and that will go away.

[44 AMP]

I don't see the benefits using small primers to light off 40+gr of rifle powder. I can easily see several possible drawbacks.

If you're getting loose primers after 2-3 loads, your loads are TOO HOT. Doesn't matter what the "book" says. What matters is what you got.

Moving to handloading...

[kilotanker22]

I tried some small rifle primers in some Starline brass I got from a friend last year. I was using H-4350 and Reloder 26 and CCI small rifle magnum primers. It was very cold outside. Around 0 degrees F. I had about a 50% hang fire rate. With the exact same loads using CCI 200, Winchester large rifle primer brass on the same day, I had zero hang fires. I abandoned the small rifle primer brass that day and never even tested it again.

All of the loads were slightly compressed with the Reloder 26 being more so. My loads are a bit hot with RL 26 and H-4350. With the Winchester brass I get around 6-7 loads before pockets get loose.

Had a ton of problems with Federal Premium brass last year as well. I bought 5 boxes of Federal GMM 130 grain Berger OTM. Figured I would shoot them up and then load the cases. About 30% of the cases had loose pockets after the very first firing Not reloaded. Most of the others were loose after 2 firings. A few pieces of brass I got 5 loads on. I guess I could have just gotten a batch of really soft brass.

I have had no trouble at all with Winchester or Hornady Brass. My Hornady cases have lasted longer than the Winchester cases. The Hornady brass also has a slightly higher case volume. I am using the same loads.

IMO there is no reason to use small rifle primers. Even for target or matches I will continue to use large rifle primers. Also I recommend staying away from Federal Premium brass. Maybe i just got a bad batch, YMMV

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

It's your pin strike, common with creeds. Get a JP high pressure 308 bolt and that will go away.

How do firing pin springs know how to lower their force on the pin when a Creedmore cartridge is chambered?

How's a high pressure bolt different?

[mel80]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

It's your pin strike, common with creeds. Get a JP high pressure 308 bolt and that will go away.

i dont wanna hijack his thread but i got a new bolt, the starline srp brass is showing pressure signs at a lower load then the lrp stuff

ive got the lrp brass load at 42.2g of r17 with a mv of just over 3000fps brass and primers look perfect

i only bought 100 pieces of srp brass and it works fine with my varmint loads so ill use it for that and continue to use the lrp stuff for my 123 140 and 142g loads

[hounddawg]

the theory is that a SRP allows higher pressures, neither is more accurate than the other. Laurie Holland did some extensive primer testing using the faithful old .308 for Target Shooter magazine

large primer test

small primer test Pt1 of 3

[ocharry]

hey mel...dont worry about hijacking anything,,,you guys keep talking,,,because i am sitting back soaking in the wisdom and reading everything

i was just looking at a couple of kilotankers posts about rifles

this rifle i am waiting on is a savage 110 tac in 6.5CM ,,,,originally i was thinking 243,,,until i pick one of these savage tac 110 rifles up at my local GS,,,it doesnt come in 243,,then i couldnt get it to shut up,,,just kept whispering in my ear,,you like me dont ya,,,20moa rail,,threaded fluted barrel,, acustock,,acutrigger,,acufit,,,so here we go,,,i didnt know there was much difference in primer pockets until the guy at grafs ask which i wanted when i asked for brass,,,thats why the question,,and as usual you guys did not disappoint

i plan on toping this rifle with a Crimson Trace 6-24x56,,,,heck i didnt even know they made scopes,,,but place i ordered the rifle at had one that somebody ordered and didnt take,,so he was kinda stuck with that moose,,,he made me an offer i could not refuse,,,so thats what is going on top of this rifle,,,dang thing looked pretty clean to me,,sharp as a razor

anyway,,,,you guys just keep talking and i will keep soaking it up

thanks to all who have posted here

ocharry

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by ocharry

hey mel...dont worry about hijacking anything,,,you guys keep talking,,,because i am sitting back soaking in the wisdom and reading everything

i was just looking at a couple of kilotankers posts about rifles

this rifle i am waiting on is a savage 110 tac in 6.5CM ,,,,originally i was thinking 243,,,until i pick one of these savage tac 110 rifles up at my local GS,,,it doesnt come in 243,,then i couldnt get it to shut up,,,just kept whispering in my ear,,you like me dont ya,,,20moa rail,,threaded fluted barrel,, acustock,,acutrigger,,acufit,,,so here we go,,,i didnt know there was much difference in primer pockets until the guy at grafs ask which i wanted when i asked for brass,,,thats why the question,,and as usual you guys did not disappoint

i plan on toping this rifle with a Crimson Trace 6-24x56,,,,heck i didnt even know they made scopes,,,but place i ordered the rifle at had one that somebody ordered and didnt take,,so he was kinda stuck with that moose,,,he made me an offer i could not refuse,,,so thats what is going on top of this rifle,,,dang thing looked pretty clean to me,,sharp as a razor

anyway,,,,you guys just keep talking and i will keep soaking it up

thanks to all who have posted here

ocharry

Yeah man, the Savage 110 Tactical is an excellent rifle. Especially for the price. I did a lot of work with one in 6.5 Creedmoor last year. A few months ago I traded that rifle to a friend and ended up missing it. So I Literally just this week purchased a 110 Tactical Desert in 6.5 Creedmoor. You won't be disappointed with it.

Head space is definitely minimum on these guns. Both of my Savage Tactical rifles require full length sizing to fit cases into the chamber without resistance after being fired. Even a full length sizing only moves the shoulder back .002 or so.

IMO the best powders for the Creedmoor are H-4350, Reloder 16, Reloder 26 in that order. I love the Reloder 26 with 130 grain pills.

I have a ton of data I would be willing to share with you privately.

[ocharry]

thanks Kilo,,i picked up some Nosler brass from Grafs the other day,,was going to get Hornady but they were out ,,,they did have Federal ,,,i wanted Starline but they were out of that too,,,anyway went with the Nosler,,,cost a little more but it looks like really nice stuff

i would be interested in your load findings and data,,,

i have a lot of H4350 and varget and a couple others to try,,,like to use up some of these 140gr bullets i have (i have several hundred) and maybe try some 120s and 130s along the way,,,been looking at the sierra game changer bullets

want to use this gun on coyotes that dont want to come in close,,,and they seem to like to stay out past 200 a lot these days

but yeah i was hoping to get a call from the toy store today or tomorrow ,,,waiting,,,,lol

ocharry

[kilotanker22]

H-4350 is the absolute best powder for use with 140-147 grain bullets IMO.
Reloder 26 for the 130's. The load I settled on was with Reloder 26 and the Tipped Game King. Very good velocity and ES as well as SD numbers.

One thing to note is that with that Savage Tactical rifle, your maximum COAL is gonna be 2.850. With the Sierra Tipped Game King and the Hornady E-LDX I was not able to get any closer than .050" from the lands. Which is fine, I have found the E-LDX and the Sierra Game Changer seem to like Jumping a little ways to the lands. I have found best results with the E-LDX between .050" and .090" jump in the 6.5 Creedmoor. The Sierra Really shot well around .050" jump.

I used the exact same load data from the E-LDX for the 140 grain Hornady ELD and HPBT bullets. All performed well.

I would bet that with H-4350 you should be able to get between 2800-2850 fps with the 140 grain bullets. And 2950 with the 130 grain bullets with Reloder 26. I did manage to get those 130 bullets moving faster, but the load was too compressed and pressure was too high.

I tried the Reloder 26 with the 140 class bullets, but I just couldn't get the consistency that I was able to get with the 130.