Professional Ordinance, bought by Bushmaster

five five six · December 31, 2011, 09:38 PM

Not quite sure where this subject should go, maybe the art of the rifle. I am new to the AR world and am looking to buy a used Corbon AR-15 with a handful of mags, a nice scope (I think ) and a carrying case for $1000.00 exactly. It is from my brother, he said he paid 1200 for it and added the scope, some mags, and a cheap case. My brother has been known, even with family members, to sell things for more than they are worth. I saw this gun and have a picture I can show you guys. Of course I am new at these things so anything that was shaped like it I would have liked. It has the Fluted staiinless barrel, as plasitic but not collapsable but stock, and that's about all I know about it. It was a Professional ordinance, which has been bought out by Bushmaster. Just throwing this out there if anyone knows something about them, I'd appreciate it. OH, I am not made of money so I was going to give him half down, then make 200 dollar a month payments. That's pretty good, except I don't get the rifle until I pay the entire balance. (my own brother!) Here is the URL to 2 pictures, you wil have to copy and paste it in the browser window: http://confront5.mediashare.com?sele...onfront5541481

WC145 · January 1, 2012, 08:40 AM

Professional Ordnance carbon fiber AR-15's were junk and, due to a bunch of proprietary parts, they were incompatible with most standard AR-15 parts/accessories. When Bushmaster took them over years ago they went through the gun completely and changed everything to standard (mil-spec) dimensions and also made them reliable. The Bushmaster guns are good shooters, I used a C15-M4 as my patrol rifle for several years.

Your brother wants too much money (especially since you're his brother) for what he has. Bud's Gun Shop has brand new flat top Carbon 15s with a red dot for $699 right now.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...16+BSH+REDDOT/

Technosavant · January 1, 2012, 09:01 AM

WC nailed it.

Under no circumstances should you pay $1000 for a Carbon-15 rifle. It just isn't worth it- for that price you can get a quality rifle that isn't used.

five five six · January 7, 2012, 01:49 AM

My brother has allways done this kinda crap his hole life. He buys a new car for say 15,000. he puts 50.000 miles on it and some new tires and tries to sell it for what he bought it. I though because I was family if would be different. I saw that one at Buds it looks way better than the one he has, I will see if I can insert a picture: I don't know exactlly how to do that unless I go to my mediashare site and I don't know if I have it loaded on there or not, it doesn NOT look as good as the one from buds,, it doesn't have the dust cover on it, it doesn't have a Picitinni rail on the front, ya, I'm really glad I ran that buy you. Do you know if I buy the one from bud's what it involves, I'm guessing it has to be sent to an FFL in my state, which is about $45.00 then shipping. I guess I can check myself, to think, I allmost sent a check for 500 off to him to. What a jerk. that's one reason why I have never been very close with my brother, he is a liar and a cheat.

five five six · January 7, 2012, 01:59 AM

I will see what else is out there, I still need another 3 or 4 hundred, I want to get a respectible rifle that is reliable.

sigcurious · January 7, 2012, 02:09 AM

stuff usually comes off the VIP list pretty quickly, so don't worry about it being VIP right now.

five five six · January 7, 2012, 12:38 PM

here is a link to the rifle my brother wants a 1000.00. by the way, after I told him that I thought that price was too high after I heard back from you guys and showed him that add, he started telling probably something closer to the truth. He said he paid too much for it, so he put more money into it (he said 1700.00!) ya, right. He said the optics he put on there cost 300.00. the plane soft rifle case he said cost 100.00, and the 405 magazines, one was 30 rnd, one 20rnd were also included. He said it had only been fired once. copy and paste this URL in your browser window and you can see a couple pics of the rifle.
http://confront5.mediashare.com?sele...onfront5541481

Technosavant · January 7, 2012, 06:48 PM

There's no way at all he has even $1000 in that rifle, let alone $1700, let alone started with a rifle he "paid too much for" and then dumped another $1700 into.

I don't recognize the optic, but the list of those for which I'd pay a few hundred bucks is incredibly short, and I'll guarantee you that's no Trijicon, EOTech, or Aimpoint. It doesn't even look like a Vortex, Burris, or Millet (some of the better budget level brands).

Personally, I think buying it off your brother at any price would be a mistake. You can't trust him, and that rifle is clearly a budget rifle tricked out with budget gear that he's trying to get quality rifle money for.

five five six · January 7, 2012, 07:30 PM

Oh ya, I sent him a response email, trying not to say something I would really regret I just asked what was going through his head. He didn't tell me he paid $400.00 more than the gun was worth when I was talking to him about buying it, it was only after I passed up the "offer" and I just said: this is how you treat your younger brother, who doesn't know alot about AR's and you wanted to pass your loss onto me and make a profit!!!! The brother that has an illness that ruined his marriage and who is on a fixed income? I don't know how you justify that to yourself, your my brother, of course I will allways love you, your family came to me in times of need and I will never forget that, but I will also never forget this.
anyway, that's over, I went ahead and became a member at bud's, after careful consideration and advice from "TOTAL STRANGERS" who I trust mor than my own Got dang brother!!!! anyway, I allmost sent him a check, If you guys hadn't come back to me he'd be laughin all the way to the bank! I'm excited now, getting a real Bushmaster AR-15 comes with the red dot and top picitinni rail, I think they said a 30 round mag, or I can order one with it for a good price. Oh, Someone mentioned the MagPul? I'm not sure what that is. and I know about the charging, or bolt release handle to chamber a round, but what is that other "button just behind the trigger for? someone explained it to me but I forgot.
again, thank you guys.

SwampYankee · January 7, 2012, 09:18 PM

Wow. I can't tell much from those pictures, aside from the fact that the rifle depicted is an absolute piece of junk. I might give you $300 for it. And I would beat the total crap out of it- that is all it is fit for. Junk.

And you are right, your brother is a jerk.

five five six · January 10, 2012, 01:33 AM

when I confronted him on the phone about why he did not tell me that the Pro Ordinance model was riddled with deffects he said he had fixed, only after I asked, and when I asked him why he didn't tell me at the time that he knew he spent $400.00 than it was worth? his answer, " I figured you would do your own research and find out about the rifle, and then come to me with questions." I asked him (because he insisted he did not lie about anything about the gun, like paying $120.00 for 5 old magazines, one 10 round, 2 20 round, and I think a 30 round magazine) that buy withholding the truth about you paying too much for the rifle and NOT tellng me and expecting me to find out on my own, is the SAME AS LYING! He didn't understand this concept and I just let it go from there. anyway, I have a question for the gang here, I am going to purchase that Bushmaster that you guys (one of you for sure) told me about from Bud's. I actually paid the membership to get the deal, since I will probably be buying more accessories from them. On the Bushmaster Carbon 15, can you switch upper recievers of different sorts? not so much calliber, but, barrel length and quality? and also, what is the forward assist? I think it is for when a round may not chamber all the way and you can press that to get the rest of it in there. anyway, you guys have saved me money and I appreciate all of the assistance. Oh, and I found a Magazine deal on buds: 3, 30 round mags for 27.00. not 5 old magazines for $120.dollars.!!!
Sincerely,
Rchard, Washington State

Bart Noir · January 10, 2012, 03:07 PM

desert eagle, if you have the time this weekend, I recommend that you go to the Wash. Arms Collectors (WAC) gunshow at the fairgrounds in Monroe. You will have the chance to learn more about ARs, buy used or new magazines at reasonable prices, etc.

Don't bother with stopping at Sam's gunshop in south Everett since it is being sold. Inventory is very low. The place has an echo.

If you are looking for the ability to switch uppers on your one and only lower, as in have a full 20-inch rifle and a 16-inch carbine, then the Carbon 15 is probably not going to work. Actually, I am not sure now. I'll have to look for one at the gunshow to see if it has the usual type upper.

If you have the time to learn more before buying, then the forums at M4carbine.net and AR15.com are a good place to do some reading.

As for me, I am very satisfied with my Smith & Wesson M&P15.

Bart Noir

five five six · January 12, 2012, 12:02 AM

I like the idea of the WAC, I already looked into it and was going to go. I'm not getting the Carbon, I'm getting the: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+ORACLE+16+223

You see the price, all metal mil spec gun with 2 30rnd mag's. Mr. 145 suggested this one and it was in my budget. I feel much better about this one (I put it on Layaway today) because it's made better than the Carbon, and only wieghs 1.6 lbs more. it does NOT come with sights or optics. I am going to get a cheap set of pop up sights from cheaperthandirt while I save for a Red Dot the 145 also suggested in my price range. I would go to that, I want to become a member, I have a CWP and I know it only costs 35 bucks, but this weekend is no good because I'm broke now, except money to live on, and I have my daughter this weekend. I know they have more shows coming up in Monroe and Puyallup, I'm sure I will become a member. it's good for 12 months once you pay the 35 bucks, show ID, and concealed carry permit. I didn't know Sam's was closing down! I bought a RIA M1911A1 there a year ago and have been there shooting a few times. I go to Norpoint, it's only 6 miles away from my place. anyway. thank you so much for your contribution, I am learning more and more each day!

five five six · January 12, 2012, 09:09 PM

I've been looking at tactical optics, red dot and soforth, I saw a rating system I believe called MOA, OR IT SAY 3 MOA DOTS?

and any other advice, I know Tim and Mr 145 gave me some websites to check out with a price range of less that 200.00

What do you think about the BSA Tactical Red Dot sight is says 1x magnification, which sounds very close combat situations, it comes with an adjustable lazer and a flashlight for, well here in Cheaper than dirt its 129.00 I found it for less on another website. I want something that will magnify targets out to what, 100 meters (yards) ham radio talk in meters) is adjustible for windage and up and down of course, and on the magnification deal, this sounds bad but no such thing as a stupid question, I don't know what: 14 x 32 is when it comes to scopes, there, I said it. Oh, and Tim, I checked into the Cabella's coming to Tulalup, they have one job opening now for a manager, so there setting up the generals, then there gonna need some foot soldiers, that's where I come it hopefully
Rich

five five six · January 12, 2012, 09:41 PM

the 3x or 5x30 rating on a scope. the 5 means your seeing the target 5 times bigger through the scope than with the naked eye. the 30 is the objective lense size, the bigger ones let in more light. I still don't know about the MOA dot.

Ridge_Runner_5 · January 12, 2012, 10:50 PM

That scope looks like an NcStar 3x scope. I had one on my AR a long time ago. Worth maybe $120 new.

five five six · January 13, 2012, 12:04 AM

thank you

five five six · January 16, 2012, 08:34 PM

I don't know if you guys know, but Amazon.com sells the craziest stuff! actually, they advertise for companies that sell. but I found this baby, one of you guys recommended to me and I like the quick release option (i think thats what that lever is for). http://www.amazon.com/NcStar-Tactica...6619611&sr=1-2
I will probably buy a red dot sight in the future for close combat, but I really like this one. Any thoughts?
Richard

December 31, 2011, 09:38 PM	#1
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	Professional Ordinance, bought by Bushmaster Not quite sure where this subject should go, maybe the art of the rifle. I am new to the AR world and am looking to buy a used Corbon AR-15 with a handful of mags, a nice scope (I think ) and a carrying case for $1000.00 exactly. It is from my brother, he said he paid 1200 for it and added the scope, some mags, and a cheap case. My brother has been known, even with family members, to sell things for more than they are worth. I saw this gun and have a picture I can show you guys. Of course I am new at these things so anything that was shaped like it I would have liked. It has the Fluted staiinless barrel, as plasitic but not collapsable but stock, and that's about all I know about it. It was a Professional ordinance, which has been bought out by Bushmaster. Just throwing this out there if anyone knows something about them, I'd appreciate it. OH, I am not made of money so I was going to give him half down, then make 200 dollar a month payments. That's pretty good, except I don't get the rifle until I pay the entire balance. (my own brother!) Here is the URL to 2 pictures, you wil have to copy and paste it in the browser window: http://confront5.mediashare.com?sele...onfront5541481 Last edited by five five six; December 31, 2011 at 09:48 PM. Reason: forgot to add picture link, seeing if I can change forum

January 1, 2012, 08:40 AM	#2
WC145 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Downeast Maine Posts: 1,836	Professional Ordnance carbon fiber AR-15's were junk and, due to a bunch of proprietary parts, they were incompatible with most standard AR-15 parts/accessories. When Bushmaster took them over years ago they went through the gun completely and changed everything to standard (mil-spec) dimensions and also made them reliable. The Bushmaster guns are good shooters, I used a C15-M4 as my patrol rifle for several years. Your brother wants too much money (especially since you're his brother) for what he has. Bud's Gun Shop has brand new flat top Carbon 15s with a red dot for $699 right now. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...16+BSH+REDDOT/ __________________ "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper Last edited by WC145; January 1, 2012 at 12:29 PM.

January 7, 2012, 01:49 AM	#4
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	THANK YOU!! My brother has allways done this kinda crap his hole life. He buys a new car for say 15,000. he puts 50.000 miles on it and some new tires and tries to sell it for what he bought it. I though because I was family if would be different. I saw that one at Buds it looks way better than the one he has, I will see if I can insert a picture: I don't know exactlly how to do that unless I go to my mediashare site and I don't know if I have it loaded on there or not, it doesn NOT look as good as the one from buds,, it doesn't have the dust cover on it, it doesn't have a Picitinni rail on the front, ya, I'm really glad I ran that buy you. Do you know if I buy the one from bud's what it involves, I'm guessing it has to be sent to an FFL in my state, which is about $45.00 then shipping. I guess I can check myself, to think, I allmost sent a check for 500 off to him to. What a jerk. that's one reason why I have never been very close with my brother, he is a liar and a cheat.

January 7, 2012, 01:59 AM	#5
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	not a premium meber at Buds I will see what else is out there, I still need another 3 or 4 hundred, I want to get a respectible rifle that is reliable.

January 7, 2012, 12:38 PM	#7
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	Hey guys, here is a link to the rifle my brother wants a 1000.00. by the way, after I told him that I thought that price was too high after I heard back from you guys and showed him that add, he started telling probably something closer to the truth. He said he paid too much for it, so he put more money into it (he said 1700.00!) ya, right. He said the optics he put on there cost 300.00. the plane soft rifle case he said cost 100.00, and the 405 magazines, one was 30 rnd, one 20rnd were also included. He said it had only been fired once. copy and paste this URL in your browser window and you can see a couple pics of the rifle. http://confront5.mediashare.com?sele...onfront5541481

January 1, 2012, 09:01 AM	#3
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	WC nailed it. Under no circumstances should you pay $1000 for a Carbon-15 rifle. It just isn't worth it- for that price you can get a quality rifle that isn't used.

January 7, 2012, 02:09 AM	#6
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	stuff usually comes off the VIP list pretty quickly, so don't worry about it being VIP right now.

January 7, 2012, 06:48 PM	#8
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	There's no way at all he has even $1000 in that rifle, let alone $1700, let alone started with a rifle he "paid too much for" and then dumped another $1700 into. I don't recognize the optic, but the list of those for which I'd pay a few hundred bucks is incredibly short, and I'll guarantee you that's no Trijicon, EOTech, or Aimpoint. It doesn't even look like a Vortex, Burris, or Millet (some of the better budget level brands). Personally, I think buying it off your brother at any price would be a mistake. You can't trust him, and that rifle is clearly a budget rifle tricked out with budget gear that he's trying to get quality rifle money for.

January 7, 2012, 07:30 PM	#9
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	the 1700.00 rifle Oh ya, I sent him a response email, trying not to say something I would really regret I just asked what was going through his head. He didn't tell me he paid $400.00 more than the gun was worth when I was talking to him about buying it, it was only after I passed up the "offer" and I just said: this is how you treat your younger brother, who doesn't know alot about AR's and you wanted to pass your loss onto me and make a profit!!!! The brother that has an illness that ruined his marriage and who is on a fixed income? I don't know how you justify that to yourself, your my brother, of course I will allways love you, your family came to me in times of need and I will never forget that, but I will also never forget this. anyway, that's over, I went ahead and became a member at bud's, after careful consideration and advice from "TOTAL STRANGERS" who I trust mor than my own Got dang brother!!!! anyway, I allmost sent him a check, If you guys hadn't come back to me he'd be laughin all the way to the bank! I'm excited now, getting a real Bushmaster AR-15 comes with the red dot and top picitinni rail, I think they said a 30 round mag, or I can order one with it for a good price. Oh, Someone mentioned the MagPul? I'm not sure what that is. and I know about the charging, or bolt release handle to chamber a round, but what is that other "button just behind the trigger for? someone explained it to me but I forgot. again, thank you guys.

January 7, 2012, 09:18 PM	#10
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	Wow. I can't tell much from those pictures, aside from the fact that the rifle depicted is an absolute piece of junk. I might give you $300 for it. And I would beat the total crap out of it- that is all it is fit for. Junk. And you are right, your brother is a jerk.

January 10, 2012, 01:33 AM	#11
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	you know it swamp Yankee when I confronted him on the phone about why he did not tell me that the Pro Ordinance model was riddled with deffects he said he had fixed, only after I asked, and when I asked him why he didn't tell me at the time that he knew he spent $400.00 than it was worth? his answer, " I figured you would do your own research and find out about the rifle, and then come to me with questions." I asked him (because he insisted he did not lie about anything about the gun, like paying $120.00 for 5 old magazines, one 10 round, 2 20 round, and I think a 30 round magazine) that buy withholding the truth about you paying too much for the rifle and NOT tellng me and expecting me to find out on my own, is the SAME AS LYING! He didn't understand this concept and I just let it go from there. anyway, I have a question for the gang here, I am going to purchase that Bushmaster that you guys (one of you for sure) told me about from Bud's. I actually paid the membership to get the deal, since I will probably be buying more accessories from them. On the Bushmaster Carbon 15, can you switch upper recievers of different sorts? not so much calliber, but, barrel length and quality? and also, what is the forward assist? I think it is for when a round may not chamber all the way and you can press that to get the rest of it in there. anyway, you guys have saved me money and I appreciate all of the assistance. Oh, and I found a Magazine deal on buds: 3, 30 round mags for 27.00. not 5 old magazines for $120.dollars.!!! Sincerely, Rchard, Washington State

January 10, 2012, 03:07 PM	#12
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	desert eagle, if you have the time this weekend, I recommend that you go to the Wash. Arms Collectors (WAC) gunshow at the fairgrounds in Monroe. You will have the chance to learn more about ARs, buy used or new magazines at reasonable prices, etc. Don't bother with stopping at Sam's gunshop in south Everett since it is being sold. Inventory is very low. The place has an echo. If you are looking for the ability to switch uppers on your one and only lower, as in have a full 20-inch rifle and a 16-inch carbine, then the Carbon 15 is probably not going to work. Actually, I am not sure now. I'll have to look for one at the gunshow to see if it has the usual type upper. If you have the time to learn more before buying, then the forums at M4carbine.net and AR15.com are a good place to do some reading. As for me, I am very satisfied with my Smith & Wesson M&P15. Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

January 12, 2012, 12:02 AM	#13
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	Mr. Noir I like the idea of the WAC, I already looked into it and was going to go. I'm not getting the Carbon, I'm getting the: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+ORACLE+16+223 You see the price, all metal mil spec gun with 2 30rnd mag's. Mr. 145 suggested this one and it was in my budget. I feel much better about this one (I put it on Layaway today) because it's made better than the Carbon, and only wieghs 1.6 lbs more. it does NOT come with sights or optics. I am going to get a cheap set of pop up sights from cheaperthandirt while I save for a Red Dot the 145 also suggested in my price range. I would go to that, I want to become a member, I have a CWP and I know it only costs 35 bucks, but this weekend is no good because I'm broke now, except money to live on, and I have my daughter this weekend. I know they have more shows coming up in Monroe and Puyallup, I'm sure I will become a member. it's good for 12 months once you pay the 35 bucks, show ID, and concealed carry permit. I didn't know Sam's was closing down! I bought a RIA M1911A1 there a year ago and have been there shooting a few times. I go to Norpoint, it's only 6 miles away from my place. anyway. thank you so much for your contribution, I am learning more and more each day!

January 12, 2012, 09:09 PM	#14
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	Hey guess what, another question I've been looking at tactical optics, red dot and soforth, I saw a rating system I believe called MOA, OR IT SAY 3 MOA DOTS? and any other advice, I know Tim and Mr 145 gave me some websites to check out with a price range of less that 200.00 What do you think about the BSA Tactical Red Dot sight is says 1x magnification, which sounds very close combat situations, it comes with an adjustable lazer and a flashlight for, well here in Cheaper than dirt its 129.00 I found it for less on another website. I want something that will magnify targets out to what, 100 meters (yards) ham radio talk in meters) is adjustible for windage and up and down of course, and on the magnification deal, this sounds bad but no such thing as a stupid question, I don't know what: 14 x 32 is when it comes to scopes, there, I said it. Oh, and Tim, I checked into the Cabella's coming to Tulalup, they have one job opening now for a manager, so there setting up the generals, then there gonna need some foot soldiers, that's where I come it hopefully Rich

January 12, 2012, 09:41 PM	#15
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	I figured it out, well some of it. the 3x or 5x30 rating on a scope. the 5 means your seeing the target 5 times bigger through the scope than with the naked eye. the 30 is the objective lense size, the bigger ones let in more light. I still don't know about the MOA dot. Last edited by five five six; January 12, 2012 at 09:44 PM. Reason: it didn't show up on the page

January 12, 2012, 10:50 PM	#16
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	That scope looks like an NcStar 3x scope. I had one on my AR a long time ago. Worth maybe $120 new.

January 13, 2012, 12:04 AM	#17
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	thank you thank you

January 16, 2012, 08:34 PM	#18
five five six Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: north of seattle in Marysville Posts: 16	I think I picked my scope I don't know if you guys know, but Amazon.com sells the craziest stuff! actually, they advertise for companies that sell. but I found this baby, one of you guys recommended to me and I like the quick release option (i think thats what that lever is for). http://www.amazon.com/NcStar-Tactica...6619611&sr=1-2 I will probably buy a red dot sight in the future for close combat, but I really like this one. Any thoughts? Richard