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Old May 29, 2010, 02:59 PM   #1
LOUD
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An experience with Varget

Hello All , Im new Here and to reloading in general. I just tried using Varget in my Hornady LNL AP and it didnt meter well at all , made 10 rounds and quit , It kept on bridging the case necks of the .223 Remington rounds I was trying to make ,then pouring out on to the shell plate and making a mess. The case activated powder measure didnt like it either, having to cut those little extruded lengths of powder in two, with every cycle of the press. anyone ever have this experience before? , I tried Accurate 2230 and loved the way it metered but it burns dirty and my AR didnt like that, anyone know of a clean burning powder for this round that meters well? Maybe this subject has been discussed before, if so point me in the right direction . Many thanks in advance , LOUD
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Old May 29, 2010, 03:52 PM   #2
riverwalker76
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I can think of a few powders that meter well for the .223.

IMR 8208 XBR
Hodgdon H335
Ramshot Tac
Hodgdon BLC(2)
Hodgdon Benchmark


Just to name a few.

Are you sure it's not a setup issue? Those LNL presses are NOT a "setup and go" press. You have to tinker with them and make adjustments before they perform just right.

Accurate 2230 has always metered for me well, but it is a dirty powder.

I never liked Varget very well. I tried a 1/4 lb. a buddy gave me last year, and I DID NOT like it at all. That's just my opinion. There are a lot of people out there that like Varget ... but not me.

If you want to spend the money and want a powder that is Superior to ANY US brand powder .... go with the Vihtavuori line of powders. It's kind of rich for my blood, but I have tried some N135, and I swear it's pure gold! I shot 50 rounds through my AR ... ran 3 patches through the barrel when I was finished ... and the last patch came out clean as a whistle! That is some really clean burning powder, and it produces some of the best 'Accuracy Loads' out there.
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Old May 29, 2010, 03:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Ramshot Tac
Thas what I use.
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Old May 29, 2010, 04:48 PM   #4
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All extruded powders are cut in a rotary drum measure. That's normal but it usually doesn't mess up the total charge enough to matter. Stick powders light so easily that they often tolerate more charge variance than a spherical propellant.

But as to the bridging, it sounds like you need to tap on the press a couple of times with the case in position for the powder to drop. A bit of bother and partly due to the small size of the case mouth. What's more, Varget simply works best in somewhat larger cases. A number of people report using it in .223 with good results for heavier bullets, like the 69 grain match bullets and heavier, but it is too slow for lighter bullets and does not seem to exhibit its vaunted temperature immunity in the .223 as well as it does in the .308, for example. I don't know why?

The spherical propellants mentioned will work, but should be selected based on the bullet weight. For lighter bullets (55 grains and below) you can use stick powders with smaller grains like Reloader 10X or Benchmark or either the Hodgdon or IMR versions of 4198. They will still cut in a drum measure, but I wouldn't expect them to bridge.

If you find your rifle's best loads are only possible to do with Varget, then the expensive but reliable solution is to invest in the JDS Quick Measure. It consistently throws even the coarsest stick powders to within 0.2 grains or better. An adapter is available for using it with progressive presses, but you should call to double check that it can be set up on the LNL? This measure is a little more trouble to set up than your drum measure, but it does what it advertises to be able to do. I have one that works extremely well, and is more often within 0.1 grains than 0.2, even with IMR4064.
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Old May 29, 2010, 06:30 PM   #5
dmazur
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Just a guess, but I would also check on case lube as a possible cause. I had a heck of a time getting the case-activated powder measure to load .243 Win, when it seemed to work OK for .30-06.

Just a little difference in neck diameter, and I was fighting bridging.

(Dillon 550 instead of Hornady LNL, but I was using Varget...)

I decided to resize/deprime/reprime, then pause to check case length and clean off lube before continuing with a bin of "prepped" brass. As part of cleaning, I wiped the inside of the necks with a Q-tip. This made all the difference. (And also gave me verified headspace and case length on every case.)

Every now and then I think about going back to some kind of spray lube, so I could load progressively without a "break-out operation". Haven't done it yet.

In fact, I ordered a Giraud trimmer, so I can do the break-out operation faster.
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Old May 29, 2010, 07:31 PM   #6
LOUD
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thanks!!!

Thanks Folks, Your info has been most helpful , Im gonna try to use the stuff up ,fortunately I only have a pound of it ,but unless I see some performance advantage that warrants it, I most likely wont fool with Varget on this caliber again. Again many thanks .....LOUD
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Old May 29, 2010, 08:32 PM   #7
wingman
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Just started using Varget for my bolt 223,have had no problems with my lyman 55 measure, Varget is super accurate in my gun, I also use H322 and v133 but Varget is top dog at this point.
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Old May 29, 2010, 09:22 PM   #8
fpchief
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I have loaded several hundred on my LNL using varget. Have never had a bridging issue. Is your measure cleaned out inside good? Have you put anything (lubricant) inside it other than the One shot or graphite? I am surprised you are having issues with it. Please let me know what you come up with. Varget is a very good powder.
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Old May 29, 2010, 09:34 PM   #9
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Another one thats been loading Varget for years and had no problems at all. If it was'nt my personal Best powder to use, I would'nt have wasted my time with it all the years. It may not work for everyone or for every calibers but for me and about 3-4 different rifle calibers from 223 to 30-06 My guns love the stuff...
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Old May 29, 2010, 10:25 PM   #10
rude robert
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I just started loading the .223, i haven't shot any of my varget reloads yet but, I wish my rcbs powder measure poured it more smoothly. It like using my Imr 4350 powder.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:22 PM   #11
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I have had some meter problems with Varget as well. Mostly, i'm just loading long range target rounds, so I adjust the load manually with a powder trickler. As long as it throws a couple grains under what I want, im ok with it.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:52 PM   #12
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I use an RCBS powder dispenser, drop a charge thats slightly under the charge I want and trickle up too what I actually want. Havent had any problems, Just excellent accuracy with Varget In any temperature).
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Old May 30, 2010, 02:45 PM   #13
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I was having a problem with bridging in my Lnl AP with Varget in .223. You have to be sure the powder measure is really clean inside. That grease they use from the factory on the dispenser is a pain to get rid of. I cleaned mine a couple times and ran some graphite thru it before I could get it to do right.
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Old May 30, 2010, 03:00 PM   #14
James R. Burke
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I use it in my 06 with a 110 grain V-Max, and love it. But like Unclenick said probably flows better in the larger case. It proved to be real accurate with that bullet.
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Old May 30, 2010, 03:26 PM   #15
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I was experiencing bridging in my dillon rl 550b with imr 4198 in .223 .The imr 4198 has longer kernnals than varget. I was originally lubing cases in the upright position and bridging was terrible. Then I started lubing cases in a box by the hundreds and the problem dissapeared. My most accurate loads in .223 in ar's has been with varget and 50 grain v-maxes.
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Old May 30, 2010, 04:17 PM   #16
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Rude Robert,

It sounds from several of the fellows like lube problems in either the cases or the measures are the most common factor with bridging Varget. One thing about Varget is that it has that greenish gold appearance that tells me it is not coated in graphite like most stick powders, so conditioning your measure may well be what you need to do.

Might I suggest you do a powder measure reliability run-through? First, pull it from the machine and disassemble it. Clean the lubricants out by pan soaking and toothbrushing in odorless mineral spirits. I am suggesting that solvent because I don't think it is likely to attack the powder hopper plastic, but check with Hornady first to be sure (or test a spot). They may tell you to use alcohol instead?

Once the grease is gone, take a tube of graphite from the hardware store and sprinkle some on a clean rag and rub it into the drum and the drum journal in the body casting. Also into the drum metering hole and the actuating mechanism and tube and anywhere else you can reach that powder might come in contact with except plastic parts.

Put the measure back together. Wipe the inside of the powder hopper and any other plastic parts with a clothes dryer sheet. This gets anti-stat on it.

Install an extra baffle in the hopper. You can download a PDF file of baffle templates free from my file repository, here. Look at the illustration in the instructions of the dual baffle approach.

Put the measure back on the machine. Set it to a minimum charge weight and put your whole tube of graphite into the powder hopper. Cycle it through the measure several time to be sure it gets everywhere powder will go.

That will be a good working prep for all powders, and not just Varget.


As to your cases, see if you can lube them without getting any conventional lube on the necks? Some guys have made up a lube board where they drill a series of neck OD size holes in a board, like the edge of a 2×4, then stick cases into them for spray lubing. Imperial Sizing Wax and Hornady Unique lubes are applied by finger, so avoiding the neck is no issue with them. You can do the old fashioned pad rolling method, too, without the neck or shoulder getting any lube.

Once you have those lubed cases, then dip the necks into a dry lube, like Imperial Dry Neck Lube (just more graphite) or white motor mica dust. Just don't put a wet lube on them.

You may want to disassemble and clean your sizing die, too just to get lube from previous session off of it?
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Last edited by Unclenick; May 30, 2010 at 04:22 PM.
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