30/30 to .375 Winchester

Hog Buster · January 22, 2011, 03:32 PM

Ok, so I convinced myself, along with help from a few other posters on here, to get a .375 Winchester. ( I have succumb to temptation ) It’s a Winchester Model 94 XTR Big Bore which looks as it has never been fired, in right out of the box condition.

Of course I knew that reloading components would be hard to find, and they were. I’ve considered blowing out some 30-30 cases for extra brass. I would think that 4 or 5 grains of Bullseye, Unique or other fast burning powder would work with the cases filled with cornmeal or some such.

So here’s some questions:

Is my theory on powder correct?

Should I anneal the cases first.?

Seems like just any other fire forming job, right?

Is there a better, or easier way?

I imagine that these fire formed cases might not be strong enough for max loads, am I correct?

Anything I missed?

Any tips? ( Other than “Don’t buy guns in odd caliber's”)

HiBC · January 22, 2011, 03:48 PM

I have not checked the dimensional details.I assume you have.
If you are going to blow out 30-30's,use new brass .Once fired will probably split.Use Cream ofWheat instead of cornmeal.
The brass for 30-30 is not designed for the pressure of a .375,I'd use 38-55 load data for just fun shooting.
Some brass is a once a year run.Watch Graf's,Natcheez,etc,or ask them.
Starline may make it,or you may be able to use 38-55 brass for light loads after running it through a .375 die.

**44 AMP** · January 22, 2011, 04:35 PM

Shows that while they have the same rim size, the .30-30 is sightly shorter than the .375 (1.976 vs 2.020) and the .375 case tapers from .420 down to .400, while the .30-30 goes from .420 down to .402 at the shoulder.

So it seems to me that blowing out .30-30 brass will wind up shorter than new .375 Win. This may not be a problem, or it might, depending on how much shorter it is when you get done.

A few grains of pistol powder and a case full of cream of wheat and a bullet will fire form the brass. Don't waste a good bullet if you don't have to. A cast slug is preferred (less friction).

Annealing the cases (done right) can't hurt, but may not be needed. I don't have any idea on thickness of the case heads, sectioning a couple cases would tell you. If there is a significant difference, then I would ajust loads accordingly. (yeah, I know, I hate to lose a case like that, too!

)

It ought to work, BUT, sometimes things that look like they will, won't.
Best thing is to buy .375 brass, of course, but I understand your problem.

Now that I think on it, are you planning to shoot a gallery load with a .30 cal bullet from the .30-30 case in your .375? Or are you going to expand the neck and use a .37 cal bullet? I cannot recommend using the .30 cal, because I don't know if the brass will expand enough to seal to the chamber walls (without splitting) and letting gas come back at your face!

Expanding the case neck, means doing it in stages, or you will destroy the cases. You would need to anneal the necks (or use virgin brass), and go first to .32, then .35, and finally .37 cal, seeing how it works. You might need to anneal the case mouths part way through the process to reduce failure rate.

Years ago, I was playing around and tried to open up some .270 cases to .35 in one step. My results were a .35 cal case mouth and a collapsed shoulder. Looked like an accordian, actually. Totally unusable for anything but scrap brass. Do it in small steps and it might work. Your failure rate will determine if it is worthwhile.

Good luck.

And put aside some cash, so that when you do find a bunch of .375 brass, you can buy it!

Hog Buster · January 22, 2011, 05:36 PM

Why Cream of Wheat instead of cornmeal?........

**Mike Irwin** · January 22, 2011, 05:45 PM

"Why Cream of Wheat instead of cornmeal?........ "

Tastes better.

IIRC the .30-30 operates at peak 40,000 CUP or PSI or whatever.

The .375 was designed to operate at substantially higher pressures, 50,000 CUP/PSI/whatever, IIRC, so I don't think the .30-30 brass would be entirely suitable.

Hog Buster · January 22, 2011, 06:45 PM

Mike Irwin

Po-Yi, I’m a coonass dat will eat jus about anyting dere, an suck dem crawfish heads dere, but I gonna tol you, dat Cream of Wheat dere is some bad yeah.

I’m planning to use them as low power loads for plinking with the grandkids.

Rat now I got to go pas my cow over the fence some hay fore she unclimbs de gate.......Pass a good time til I get back.

SL1 · January 22, 2011, 06:49 PM

I doubt that the pressure rating of the .30-30 cartridge is a problem for that case at .375 Winchester pressures. I use both to form .30 Herrett cases, and load them to a target pressure of 47,000 psi.

However, the cases formed from Remington.30-30 cases are about 15 grains lighter than the ones formed from Winchester .375 cases, with a about 1.5 grain more water capacity.

SL1

HiBC · January 22, 2011, 07:54 PM

WHOA!!!
The fireform method I described is done with NO BULLET!!
Just dipper a small charge,roughly 10 % of a normal load,of Bullseye,then top with a 1" or so little piece of toilet paper.Poke it down with a pencil or something.Then fill with Cream of Wheat.You can put a bit of TP on top of that Leave them all in a loading block,single load them muzzle up.
This is how I make 35 Whelens and also I have made a few hundred 40-60 Maynard and 40-50 Sharps from 30-40 Krag brass.
The Krag brass was blowing to straight wall with 7 gr powder.
I cannot tell you precisely why Cream of Wheat works better,it has to do with how it flows through the case neck and forms it.
Feel free to learn the hard way if you must,been there,done that already.
BTW,I do not eat Cream of Wheat.

RaySendero · January 22, 2011, 08:29 PM

Grafs has 375 Win cases in stock:

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/837

Greg Mercurio · January 22, 2011, 08:33 PM

How much Brass do you need? I have 2 boxes of factory loaded ammo and a fair supply of unprimed brass that I bought a year ago. I wasn't aware that I was hard to find. PM me and we can probably save you a bunch of migraines.

GeauxTide · January 22, 2011, 10:09 PM

Using 30-30 brass, IMHO, for the 375 Winchester is a recipe for disaster. The SAAMI specs for the 375 is 50,000psi, and the 30-30 is 40,000psi. The parent cartridge is the 38-55. Get the real thing.

Lemmon · January 22, 2011, 10:39 PM

Recently I was looking for some 375 brass to use to form 357 & 30 Herrett brass. I have used 30-30 brass before but I had always heard that the 375 Winchester brass was a tad stronger and could handle higher pressure. I believe Midway had some real 375 Winchester brass. It was a little pricey and I found another supply house that had "375" that was formed out of 30-30 brass (fine print). Buyer beware.

Lemmon

Hog Buster · January 22, 2011, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the info guys........... Especially the culinary info Mike.

The dimensions of the case look to be close enough to do this. However I’m not planning to blow them out with anything but a powder charge and cornmeal, or whatever, and a cotton or toilet paper wad. I not about to send anything like a .070 smaller slug down the barrel.

The reason for this was that I was primarily thinking of low power plinking loads with cast bullets (read cheap for the grand kids) and saving my good cases for hunting. With a bunch of 30/30 brass it seems like a good idea, plus it’s something to kill time with after hunting season. And yes, I’m waiting on the next run of .375 Winchester brass to stock up. I have enough of it to last for a while now, but then when is enough, enough?

My thinking is that blowing a case out that much must thin it quite a bit and preclude heavy loading. The cost difference between new 30/30 cases and .375 Winchester cases isn’t enough to justify buying new 30/30 just to blow them out. I’ll just anneal old 30/30 cases. It may take a couple of tries to get this done, if at all, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Damn, I’m still wondering about that Cream of Wheat?.......... Maybe I could use cayenne pepper, shoot over the crawfish pond and season them before catching them?.........

mapsjanhere · January 23, 2011, 12:02 AM

It's just not cost efficient, the 375 Win brass is 60 cents per, cheap 30-30 cost 30 cents, plus primer and powder, call it 40 cents. For that you get brass that probably won't give you half as many reloads before you need to anneal as the factory stuff.

HiBC · January 23, 2011, 12:07 AM

The cayenne loads might be a little hot.Cream of Wheat can be had in a small box.Agreed,it is best for ballistic purposes only.
Cornmeal can be put to better use:catfish,hushpuppies,okra,green tomatoes,cornbread,etc.

I also agree it is best to just get .375 brass if you can.With the cast bullet loads you suggest for the kids,it should last a long time.

Lead bullets and short brass could leave a buildup to clean out of the chamber .

I abandoned blowing Krag brass out straight when 405 WCF Hornady brass became availble.

Hog Buster · January 23, 2011, 01:22 PM

HiBC

According to case length info the 30/30 is longer than the .375 Winchester. The 30/30 is 2.039 and the .375 Winchester is 2.020. Blowing 30/30’s out may even make them longer. Seems that I’ll have to trim them. I don’t think I’ll have a problem with short brass. Anyway I have to go get some ballistic Cream of Wheat before I can try it. I’ll be posting on the outcome.

Hog Buster · January 29, 2011, 01:44 AM

Here’s an update on blowing out the 30/30 cases.

The ballistic Cream of Wheat worked fine. It really opened them up, plus scared hell out of the dog, cats and chickens, but the results were not very promising. The cases were formed well enough and had enough length, but were thinner than shim stock. Maybe closer to heavy aluminum foil. I could mash them with my fingers. So it was just a waste of time. Threw the rest of the ballistic Cream of Wheat to the chickens and even they wouldn’t eat that stuff. Guess I should have used cornmeal..... or grits........ BCNU

Sport45 · January 29, 2011, 08:42 AM

I don't remember who' headstamp was on the .30-30 brass I used, but I blew some out to .375win with no problems. Shot 200 gr (or heavier) jacketed bullets over 4895 without any splits or pressure signs. The gun and brass reside at my brother's place now or I'd have more info. Too bad it didn't work out for you.

Graf's has .375win in stock now.

Greg Mercurio · January 29, 2011, 04:36 PM

Hog Buster, my offer to share my stash of brass still stands. I've got a bunch, new and once fired.

Doodlebugger45 · January 31, 2011, 03:05 PM

Natchez also has brand new .375 Win brass for $30/50. But I do understand the idea of forming your own, just to see how it works. And if you happen to run across some .356 Win brass, you should grab it. Seems to me it would be a better candidate for fire forming up to .375 than the 30-30 is.

hornetguy · January 31, 2011, 04:52 PM

well, since you already tried it, and didn't like it, this is probably moot.

When I bought my Win 94 Big Bore, I formed the first cases I used from once fired 30-30 brass. I found out a couple of things... shooting a "blank" load, using cornmeal is still LOUD. Wear ear protection.
Second, fire them straight up in the air. I fired some horizontally, and had the brass stretch unevenly... one side of the mouth was a little longer than the other. I think I maybe lost 2 out of 25 or so to splits.
The cases worked perfectly well, but I wasn't trying to load to the "firewall" with mine... I almost never do. I might still have some of them around, I'll look tonight, and post pics if I find some.

I still have some gas checks layin around, if anyone is interested.

January 22, 2011, 03:32 PM	#1
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	30/30 to .375 Winchester Ok, so I convinced myself, along with help from a few other posters on here, to get a .375 Winchester. ( I have succumb to temptation ) It’s a Winchester Model 94 XTR Big Bore which looks as it has never been fired, in right out of the box condition. Of course I knew that reloading components would be hard to find, and they were. I’ve considered blowing out some 30-30 cases for extra brass. I would think that 4 or 5 grains of Bullseye, Unique or other fast burning powder would work with the cases filled with cornmeal or some such. So here’s some questions: Is my theory on powder correct? Should I anneal the cases first.? Seems like just any other fire forming job, right? Is there a better, or easier way? I imagine that these fire formed cases might not be strong enough for max loads, am I correct? Anything I missed? Any tips? ( Other than “Don’t buy guns in odd caliber's”) __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 22, 2011, 04:35 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	quick check of the dimensions... Shows that while they have the same rim size, the .30-30 is sightly shorter than the .375 (1.976 vs 2.020) and the .375 case tapers from .420 down to .400, while the .30-30 goes from .420 down to .402 at the shoulder. So it seems to me that blowing out .30-30 brass will wind up shorter than new .375 Win. This may not be a problem, or it might, depending on how much shorter it is when you get done. A few grains of pistol powder and a case full of cream of wheat and a bullet will fire form the brass. Don't waste a good bullet if you don't have to. A cast slug is preferred (less friction). Annealing the cases (done right) can't hurt, but may not be needed. I don't have any idea on thickness of the case heads, sectioning a couple cases would tell you. If there is a significant difference, then I would ajust loads accordingly. (yeah, I know, I hate to lose a case like that, too!) It ought to work, BUT, sometimes things that look like they will, won't. Best thing is to buy .375 brass, of course, but I understand your problem. Now that I think on it, are you planning to shoot a gallery load with a .30 cal bullet from the .30-30 case in your .375? Or are you going to expand the neck and use a .37 cal bullet? I cannot recommend using the .30 cal, because I don't know if the brass will expand enough to seal to the chamber walls (without splitting) and letting gas come back at your face! Expanding the case neck, means doing it in stages, or you will destroy the cases. You would need to anneal the necks (or use virgin brass), and go first to .32, then .35, and finally .37 cal, seeing how it works. You might need to anneal the case mouths part way through the process to reduce failure rate. Years ago, I was playing around and tried to open up some .270 cases to .35 in one step. My results were a .35 cal case mouth and a collapsed shoulder. Looked like an accordian, actually. Totally unusable for anything but scrap brass. Do it in small steps and it might work. Your failure rate will determine if it is worthwhile. Good luck. And put aside some cash, so that when you do find a bunch of .375 brass, you can buy it! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 22, 2011, 05:36 PM	#4
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	Why Cream of Wheat instead of cornmeal?........ __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 22, 2011, 05:45 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"Why Cream of Wheat instead of cornmeal?........ " Tastes better. IIRC the .30-30 operates at peak 40,000 CUP or PSI or whatever. The .375 was designed to operate at substantially higher pressures, 50,000 CUP/PSI/whatever, IIRC, so I don't think the .30-30 brass would be entirely suitable. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 22, 2011, 06:45 PM	#6
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	Mike Irwin Po-Yi, I’m a coonass dat will eat jus about anyting dere, an suck dem crawfish heads dere, but I gonna tol you, dat Cream of Wheat dere is some bad yeah. I’m planning to use them as low power loads for plinking with the grandkids. Rat now I got to go pas my cow over the fence some hay fore she unclimbs de gate.......Pass a good time til I get back. __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 22, 2011, 03:48 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I have not checked the dimensional details.I assume you have. If you are going to blow out 30-30's,use new brass .Once fired will probably split.Use Cream ofWheat instead of cornmeal. The brass for 30-30 is not designed for the pressure of a .375,I'd use 38-55 load data for just fun shooting. Some brass is a once a year run.Watch Graf's,Natcheez,etc,or ask them. Starline may make it,or you may be able to use 38-55 brass for light loads after running it through a .375 die.

January 22, 2011, 06:49 PM	#7
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I doubt that the pressure rating of the .30-30 cartridge is a problem for that case at .375 Winchester pressures. I use both to form .30 Herrett cases, and load them to a target pressure of 47,000 psi. However, the cases formed from Remington.30-30 cases are about 15 grains lighter than the ones formed from Winchester .375 cases, with a about 1.5 grain more water capacity. SL1 Last edited by SL1; January 22, 2011 at 11:00 PM. Reason: wrote "35" instead of "15" for case weight difference.

January 22, 2011, 07:54 PM	#8
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	NO BULLET! WHOA!!! The fireform method I described is done with NO BULLET!! Just dipper a small charge,roughly 10 % of a normal load,of Bullseye,then top with a 1" or so little piece of toilet paper.Poke it down with a pencil or something.Then fill with Cream of Wheat.You can put a bit of TP on top of that Leave them all in a loading block,single load them muzzle up. This is how I make 35 Whelens and also I have made a few hundred 40-60 Maynard and 40-50 Sharps from 30-40 Krag brass. The Krag brass was blowing to straight wall with 7 gr powder. I cannot tell you precisely why Cream of Wheat works better,it has to do with how it flows through the case neck and forms it. Feel free to learn the hard way if you must,been there,done that already. BTW,I do not eat Cream of Wheat. Last edited by HiBC; January 22, 2011 at 07:59 PM.

January 22, 2011, 08:29 PM	#9
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	Grafs has 375 Win cases in stock: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/837

January 22, 2011, 08:33 PM	#10
Greg Mercurio Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 151	How much Brass do you need? I have 2 boxes of factory loaded ammo and a fair supply of unprimed brass that I bought a year ago. I wasn't aware that I was hard to find. PM me and we can probably save you a bunch of migraines.

January 22, 2011, 10:09 PM	#11
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	Using 30-30 brass, IMHO, for the 375 Winchester is a recipe for disaster. The SAAMI specs for the 375 is 50,000psi, and the 30-30 is 40,000psi. The parent cartridge is the 38-55. Get the real thing.

January 22, 2011, 10:39 PM	#12
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	Buyer beware. Recently I was looking for some 375 brass to use to form 357 & 30 Herrett brass. I have used 30-30 brass before but I had always heard that the 375 Winchester brass was a tad stronger and could handle higher pressure. I believe Midway had some real 375 Winchester brass. It was a little pricey and I found another supply house that had "375" that was formed out of 30-30 brass (fine print). Buyer beware. Lemmon

January 22, 2011, 11:51 PM	#13
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	Thanks for the info guys........... Especially the culinary info Mike. The dimensions of the case look to be close enough to do this. However I’m not planning to blow them out with anything but a powder charge and cornmeal, or whatever, and a cotton or toilet paper wad. I not about to send anything like a .070 smaller slug down the barrel. The reason for this was that I was primarily thinking of low power plinking loads with cast bullets (read cheap for the grand kids) and saving my good cases for hunting. With a bunch of 30/30 brass it seems like a good idea, plus it’s something to kill time with after hunting season. And yes, I’m waiting on the next run of .375 Winchester brass to stock up. I have enough of it to last for a while now, but then when is enough, enough? My thinking is that blowing a case out that much must thin it quite a bit and preclude heavy loading. The cost difference between new 30/30 cases and .375 Winchester cases isn’t enough to justify buying new 30/30 just to blow them out. I’ll just anneal old 30/30 cases. It may take a couple of tries to get this done, if at all, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Damn, I’m still wondering about that Cream of Wheat?.......... Maybe I could use cayenne pepper, shoot over the crawfish pond and season them before catching them?......... __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 23, 2011, 12:02 AM	#14
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	It's just not cost efficient, the 375 Win brass is 60 cents per, cheap 30-30 cost 30 cents, plus primer and powder, call it 40 cents. For that you get brass that probably won't give you half as many reloads before you need to anneal as the factory stuff. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

January 23, 2011, 12:07 AM	#15
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	The cayenne loads might be a little hot.Cream of Wheat can be had in a small box.Agreed,it is best for ballistic purposes only. Cornmeal can be put to better use:catfish,hushpuppies,okra,green tomatoes,cornbread,etc. I also agree it is best to just get .375 brass if you can.With the cast bullet loads you suggest for the kids,it should last a long time. Lead bullets and short brass could leave a buildup to clean out of the chamber . I abandoned blowing Krag brass out straight when 405 WCF Hornady brass became availble. Last edited by HiBC; January 23, 2011 at 12:12 AM.

January 23, 2011, 01:22 PM	#16
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	HiBC According to case length info the 30/30 is longer than the .375 Winchester. The 30/30 is 2.039 and the .375 Winchester is 2.020. Blowing 30/30’s out may even make them longer. Seems that I’ll have to trim them. I don’t think I’ll have a problem with short brass. Anyway I have to go get some ballistic Cream of Wheat before I can try it. I’ll be posting on the outcome. __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 29, 2011, 01:44 AM	#17
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	Here’s an update on blowing out the 30/30 cases. The ballistic Cream of Wheat worked fine. It really opened them up, plus scared hell out of the dog, cats and chickens, but the results were not very promising. The cases were formed well enough and had enough length, but were thinner than shim stock. Maybe closer to heavy aluminum foil. I could mash them with my fingers. So it was just a waste of time. Threw the rest of the ballistic Cream of Wheat to the chickens and even they wouldn’t eat that stuff. Guess I should have used cornmeal..... or grits........ BCNU __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

January 29, 2011, 08:42 AM	#18
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I don't remember who' headstamp was on the .30-30 brass I used, but I blew some out to .375win with no problems. Shot 200 gr (or heavier) jacketed bullets over 4895 without any splits or pressure signs. The gun and brass reside at my brother's place now or I'd have more info. Too bad it didn't work out for you. Graf's has .375win in stock now. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

January 29, 2011, 04:36 PM	#19
Greg Mercurio Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 151	Hog Buster, my offer to share my stash of brass still stands. I've got a bunch, new and once fired.

January 31, 2011, 03:05 PM	#20
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	Natchez also has brand new .375 Win brass for $30/50. But I do understand the idea of forming your own, just to see how it works. And if you happen to run across some .356 Win brass, you should grab it. Seems to me it would be a better candidate for fire forming up to .375 than the 30-30 is.

January 31, 2011, 04:52 PM	#21
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	well, since you already tried it, and didn't like it, this is probably moot. When I bought my Win 94 Big Bore, I formed the first cases I used from once fired 30-30 brass. I found out a couple of things... shooting a "blank" load, using cornmeal is still LOUD. Wear ear protection. Second, fire them straight up in the air. I fired some horizontally, and had the brass stretch unevenly... one side of the mouth was a little longer than the other. I think I maybe lost 2 out of 25 or so to splits. The cases worked perfectly well, but I wasn't trying to load to the "firewall" with mine... I almost never do. I might still have some of them around, I'll look tonight, and post pics if I find some. I still have some gas checks layin around, if anyone is interested.