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Old January 1, 2019, 05:13 PM   #1
rebs
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M1 Garand

are they considered curio or relic ?

what kind of groups can be expected at 100 to 300 yds ?
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Old January 1, 2019, 05:57 PM   #2
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3” at 100 with good ammo is considered pretty normal. Some do considerably better.
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Old January 2, 2019, 07:48 AM   #3
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I have the CMP M1 Special in -06 and i'm down to about 1.75 MOA @100 yds with my 168 gr SMK handloads shooting benchrest with an optic.
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Old January 2, 2019, 02:24 PM   #4
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"...what kind of groups..." Depends on the rifle and the ammo used. Most of 'em have less than new barrels. That's why the CMP and most owners pay attention to throat erosion and muzzle wear.
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Old January 2, 2019, 06:11 PM   #5
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Dont know about C&R, but I know Garands Shoot.

I just built this one at the CMPs Advanced Maint Clinic, and took it to their range. Using Greek M-2 Ball this was my first group.



Been shooting Garands along time, shot high power and 1000 yard service rifle matches. Also ran Sniper Schools for the AK NG, using the M1C/Ds.

They shoot.
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Old January 3, 2019, 01:10 PM   #6
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Kraig, that is some outstanding shooting, both shooter and M1 rifle !
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Old January 4, 2019, 08:11 AM   #7
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And I will bet that target was shot with iron sights.

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Old January 4, 2019, 12:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
And I will bet that target was shot with iron sights.
I bet it was too.
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Old January 4, 2019, 03:39 PM   #9
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I could not get Greek Ball to shoot that good at 75 yards I don't think.

Fantastic shooting.

Curious what MOA group would that be?
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Old January 4, 2019, 06:10 PM   #10
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Kraigwy, I believe that was a criterion barrel correct?
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Old January 4, 2019, 09:53 PM   #11
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are they considered curio or relic ?
Yes, but it doesn’t matter. Typically, you are going to want to order from cmp. They ship to civilians.
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Old January 5, 2019, 12:56 PM   #12
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As long as you are a member of one of the organizations on their list, unless they changed policy I'm unaware of
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Old January 6, 2019, 09:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
I could not get Greek Ball to shoot that good at 75 yards I don't think.
+1, many think the HXP is excellent shooting millsurp, me not the case with my CMP Special (which are fitted with new Criterion barrels). I tested some Greek HXP and I was at about 3.4 MOA at 100 yds again benchrest and with an optic for testing. YMMV as my CMP Special is completely as-issued stock so as to be legal for CMP/NRA John C. Garand type matches. That being said even the the ammo shoots only "ok" the HXP brass is excellent for reloading !
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Old January 6, 2019, 09:38 AM   #14
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The current ammo sold by the CMP is made by Creedmoor sports and uses Lapua bullets & brass...it has been 50% off when bought with a rifle. It is not badly priced at full price.

I don’t have anything to show, but my 100yd targets were pretty good like 1.75” or so for 8 shots.
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Old January 9, 2019, 07:12 AM   #15
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MOA is a good reference point, no doubt. Being able to put the group in the ten ring is more important in HP matches.
Ring sizes:No. SR - Military "Target, Rifle, Competition, Short Range.
Xring ........ 3.00 10ring........ 7.00 9ring........ 13.00
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Old January 9, 2019, 07:45 AM   #16
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"cleaning" a 200 yd SR target with an AR-15 is impressive shooting, "cleaning" an SR target with an M1 is REALLY impressive ! kraigwy's Distinguished HM status has my utmost respect an admiration ! I've only been shooting HP matches for about 3 years and I love observing the masters shoot just as much as shooting. The most friendly and helpful individuals you will ever meet !
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Old January 9, 2019, 01:41 PM   #17
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MOA is a good reference point, no doubt. Being able to put the group in the ten ring is more important in HP matches.
Ring sizes:No. SR - Military "Target, Rifle, Competition, Short Range.
Xring ........ 3.00 10ring........ 7.00 9ring........ 13.00
That helps, I don't know the competition classes and targets let alone what the sizes are so MOA is my default.
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Old January 9, 2019, 03:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by RC20
That helps, I don't know the competition classes and targets let alone what the sizes are so MOA is my default
A easy way to remember NRA targets is that the black diameter equals about 6 MOA in diameter. So a 200 yd NRA "SR" target will have a black diameter of 12". When I shoot 600 yds the "MR" target black dia is 36". This is a handy and quick reference for me when spotting my shots and tweaking scope adjustments .
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Old January 10, 2019, 04:44 PM   #19
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Thank you guys for all the information. I appreciate it
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Old January 13, 2019, 05:01 PM   #20
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Yes, C&R.

And a rifleman, w/ a good M1 Garand, should shoot 2.5 - 3 MOA from field positions.

But that's the data.

The intrinsic is - it's a wood n' steel .30-06 semiautomatic battle rifle that will absolutely hammer any target you can see.






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Old March 23, 2019, 05:36 PM   #21
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great C&R makes things easier!
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Old March 25, 2019, 11:54 AM   #22
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For the Service Rifle National Match Course (NMC) and related competitions, the targets were originally for 200, 300 and 600 yards. There are reduced versions, though. I have a PDF file I put together for sighting and checking sight come-ups at 100 yards, based on the standard 100-yard reduced target dimensions. They can be printed and fired on. I included lines to locate elevation POI for several ammunition and bullet types. I did not include windage offsets for spin drift at long ranges. I may do that sometime.

HXP seems to shoot like M2 Ball in that the grouping indicates bullets that sometimes differ significantly from one to the next. I've also found with M2 that the crimps pressed into the bullets are sometimes more symmetrical than others and are sometimes deeper than others, leaving different amounts of bearing surface intact. If you get lucky, you get some rounds where the bullets are more similar and more symmetrically crimped from one to the next than average and that therefore shoot tighter groups in any rifle than other examples do. The only way I know to guarantee the bullets are decent is to pull them, pour out the powder and clean out any pitch seal inside the case necks with mineral spirits, resize the neck, re-dispense the powder at the average charge weight you measured pouring powder out, and seat some better quality bullets in place of the originals. I did this with M2 for a long time for local matches. I've never done it for HXP, as I've never had more than a few hundred rounds of it, but I assume the situation is the same.

Bases of some pulled M2 Ball bullets from same ammo can:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg vcm_s_kf_repr_640x480.jpg (40.2 KB, 245 views)
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Old March 25, 2019, 12:27 PM   #23
Nathan
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I don’t have anything to show, but my 100yd targets were pretty good like 1.75” or so for 8 shots.
I must have been short on memory! 4.9” at 100 yds was my best group this weekend. I think better is possible...
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Old April 15, 2019, 12:13 AM   #24
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I bought a Field Grade from CMP last month - Springfield made in May '45, rebarreled in July '63, excellent numbers of ME 1+ & TE 1+. Recommended M1 reloads with IMR4895 and 150 grain BT match bullets wouldn't group any better than around 6" at 100 yards with the stock battle sights. Eventually, I tried some 168 grain Nosler match BT's, and groups shrunk to around 1 3/4" with the NRA recommended load of 47.0 grains IMR4895 and CCI200's, but about 4" high even with the rear sight all the way down.
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Old April 15, 2019, 08:48 PM   #25
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Someone may have filed the front sight down. 4" high is about right for a 6:00 hold on a standard target. With standard sights, the 150s should be in the middle of a standard target using a 6:00 hold with 9 to 11 clicks of elevation plus a little white space, and some reduce the front sight to produce that when turned down all the way.

Take the rear sight rack off by running the sight up enough to get your thumb behind it and popping the cover off. Once loose, you will see the bottom of the rack has a segment where the teeth stop and it is solid. This is to prevent soldiers accidentally turning the sight adjustment up so high in the heat of combat that the sight comes out and they lose it. You probably don't have to worry about that, so you can actually remove the toothless segment to give yourself a few more clicks of down adjustment. Try just filing the bottom corner off of it first. I don't recall it being hardened like the base, but if your file won't touch it, a Dremel cutoff wheel will. Then put it back together and see how many more clicks down you get.

As far as grouping, many of the 147 grain 7.62 NATO BT bullets I've seen are just terribly inaccurate if that is what you have. If your muzzle erosion is at all asymmetrical, boat tails will be more sensitive to it than flat base bullets, so try some of the latter. The Hornady 150 grain boattails have worked well for me, but I know my crown is essentially perfect.
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