Czech VZ 58 or Yugo N PAP?

[rcase1234]

So I'm seriously considering one of these rifles and I am ready to commit before any kind of crazy gun bans take place and of course cause I've wanted one for a while. Which would you choose and why? From my research they both seem like good guns, but like all guns, there are ups and downs. What are some pros and cons of these rifles? Thanks in advance for your reply

[dakota.potts]

I have been doing similar research, and based on not having fired either, the one I'm really looking at is the VZ 58.

From all accounts it seems to be more accurate and softer recoiling than the AK-47. The safety is different and the ejection port and bolt opens up the entire rifle so you could see through the ground, I've heard this reduces failure to ejections because you can get just about anything to eject out of there. I also like the bolt hold open and the aesthetics. Magazines are different from an AK (possible con) but cheap and allow the bolt to hold open.

One of the big things making it hard for me to want to go the VZ are the fact that it's hard to find good mounting systems for optics, but they are out there.

I like the aesthetics of it too, especially the nice stained wooden furniture ones.

[rcase1234]

Thanks for the reply. Something I would like to as for everyone to consider is I plan on keeping the rifle "as is" and not adding any optics and such

[chris in va]

I'd also like a VZ58. One word of note, be sure you don't get the single stack version by accident.

Also consider a VEPR.

[DubC-Hicks]

Between the 2, I'd get the Yugo, just because it takes AK magazines, and there's more aftermarket parts.

[Fishbed77]

Between the 2, I'd get the Yugo, just because it takes AK magazines, and there's more aftermarket parts.

I agree, but I'd select an O-PAP over the N-PAP, due the RPK-style receiver that is beefier and more closely matches the Yugo military rifles. Especially since O-PAPs only run about $30-50 more than N-PAPs.

[rcase1234]

Everyone is saying O PAP because of the thicker reciever. Are the N PAPs notorious for breaking in half or what? Lol

[Fishbed77]

Nope. I'm sure it will be fine.

The O-PAP is just more faithful to the Yugo military M70 design.

That and the RPK style receiver just helps it stand out in the marketplace. Most other rifles with that style (such as the VEPR) cost a lot more money.

[Fishbed77]

One more thing... Centerfire Systems is actually listing the O-PAP for $50 LESS than the N-PAP.

[barnbwt]

Having handled/shot both, I'd say hands down the VZ*. It's best to imagine it as if Siminov and Kalashnikov collaborated on a rifle, and it turned out lighter and more compact than either while keeping the best attributes of each. And despite the VZ2008 being from Century, it appears they managed to not screw up that offering; I've heard nothing but good things, and it is certainly a better deal than a D-Technik at twice the price, or an unecessarily-heavy model AK at the same price.**

VZ Pros;
-SKS Clip, box magazine, or (converted) drum fed. Can use modified AK magazines
-Safety switch right over the RHS grip, interferes with grip when on safe (can easily be made ambi for a thumb switch, too)
-Milled receiver plenty of rigidity and no rivets to wiggle or flex. VZ's are typically a bit more accurate than AKs for a number of factors, one of them being this
-Short stroke piston operation allows for an open top receiver design with a giant ejection/access port, while also reducing felt recoil from reciprocating mass
-Striker fired FCG is creepy, but smooth and consistent (this is w/ factory parts, though, and I'm sure it could be tuned/lightened a good bit)
-Take down is simpler, since there is a push pin at the rear instead of a pressure latch (which can come off during gas release or heavy recoil)
-Gas system is a good bit shorter, keeping overall weight and bulk down
-Overall fit and finish is typical Czech; better than the rest of the USSR except maybe Russia when they're really trying to do good (nicer than a Tula SKS)
-Excellent steel side folding stock, if you prefer one
-Plenty of aftermarket parts, furniture, sight options, and add-ons; just not an enormous number of identical options like AKs (no worse than AKs pre-Obama)
-Aluminum magazines with bolt-hold-open
-Exposed bolt carrier lends itself well to belt-fed conversion (I'm working on it)
-Unless you're in Canada, you'll be the only guy at the range with one

Cons;
-It's not an AK, but it looks like one, so everyone will expect it to be one (i.e. "why doesn't it take AK mags?" )
-The striker system probably can't be made as nice as a tuned up AR hammer system, but is better from the factory than any AK I've used
-Hand guards get hot since the gas vent is right there; doesn't bother me unless I unload 2+ magazines rapidly. Railed furniture options allow for a remote foregrip, or gloves could simply be used for rapid/volume fire.
-Stock furniture is on the small side, probably even compared to AKs. It's really more of a carbine than a rifle, so to me this seems OK, but it bothers some folks expecting something the size of an AK (see my first point)
-The locking surface design is smaller; more in line with SKS limits than AK limits (so a 308 conversion is a no go, but 7.62x39/5.56 is perfectly fine) and a bit further from the breech than a rotating bolt can be
-Unless you're in Canada, you'll be the only guy at the range with one
-Probably a bit more sensitive to milsurp ammo corrosion since gas tube/piston tolerances are tighter, but the separate piston means damage is limited to the tube and barrel only

*unless of course you're already trained/have a preference for the AK; both certainly work well
**Receiver/barrel flex doesn't really affect accuracy much since it is as consistent with each shot as much as the ammo (at least by AK standards). Barrel quality, which is typically pretty good for the VZs/Czech's in general, has a much bigger impact. The only reason for a beefier AK receiver is for wringing out accuracy (for which the PAP would need a new heavier barrel like the RPK) or if it is expected to take more abuse than normal (like bending caused by forces applied to the end of a longer RPK barrel when it's slammed down onto its bipod )

TCB