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September 12, 2013, 04:25 PM | #26 |
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I think I misunderstood...
the female deputy was close enough to you to straighten your shirt tail, and had done so before you noticed her? - my experience has been that people don't pay very much attention to the folks around them. I sometimes open carry, depending on circumstances, and nobody seems to notice or maybe they don't care. Did have a police officer in Portland tell me I couldn't open carry, but I explained the law to him (and contacted Lars Larsen who spoke with the chief of police about reminding the officers that open carry with is legal in Portland if you have a CHL). - note: IMO open carry should always involve a retention type holster.
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September 13, 2013, 08:39 AM | #27 |
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in fl incidental exposure isnt a problem....
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September 13, 2013, 08:52 AM | #28 | |
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Quote:
Can I say a funny story though? I don't know if it's appropriate though.. Okay never mind. What I will say is this though, it's not a "problem" legally. But it can be. It's really a big gray area though. The process it takes to not be a problem is a PITA for both the officer and citizen. You're made and the first assumption to a citizen is "I'm a good guy! Stop!" The first assumption to the officer is "Let me check this guy out ASAP!" There have been several cases where good guys have had knees in their backs and are detained while being checked out. DL, CWP, Serial number..etc. It's not fun when that happens. It's officer and public safety though. However the gray area is this, some officers who are more decorated and rough around the edges don't get too excited for this when it's seen and you'll get stopped if you print or exposed they'll ask to see your permit and you'll go on about your day. A rookie or an officer who isn't as decorated may do the part where I mentioned a knee in the back and all that fun stuff. So every officer is different. Hence the gray area. You need to just do your part, you don't know what the officer has gone through to be a little jumpy or anything. So being snappy won't help. Be the change you wish to see. |
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September 13, 2013, 08:53 AM | #29 |
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In Wyoming we have "Constitutional Carry".
It means that if you can lawfully own a gun you can carry it almost anywhere, any time in any way you like. Schools are an exception, but probably about 99.5% of the places are lawful for carry. It’s great, but also sad in how it shows how badly we as citizens of most of the USA have let our rights go and largely without any fight. In Wyoming we had to pass a law to make the LAW the law. |
September 30, 2013, 06:52 AM | #30 | |
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SEEKER.
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Dangerous on my part, not thinking. Will not happen again. |
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October 1, 2013, 09:43 PM | #31 |
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Kentucky is a CC and OC state so I don't worry about it one way or another. If it shows - it shows.
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October 2, 2013, 08:28 AM | #32 |
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Not a huge concern.
But, still that is why I choose a small .380 pocket pistol and keep it in a pocket. I don't want to sacrifice comfort, especially in hot weather, for concealment. |
October 2, 2013, 09:08 AM | #33 |
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I have two carry methods for my CCW. I carry a Glock 30 in a serpa cqc holster on my right hip most of the time. When I am at work I switch to an uncle mike's iwb holster for deep concealment.
I have been made once by a random. I was putting groceries in the back of my car and my shirt rode up over the butt of my gun. A woman with a 6 year old child was getting out of the car next to me and she looked at me with the widest eyes I have ever seen. She grabbed her daughter and quickly rushed inside the store. Point is, this stuff happens and as long as you have good intentions I think you will stay out of trouble.
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October 2, 2013, 09:27 AM | #34 |
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I seem to notice that most non gun people are not well attuned to this kind of quick slip. with all the sell phone holsters and other crap people wear on their belt, nobody really gives a doubletake if they see a black bulge on a belt out of the corner of their eye. WE might, because guns on belts are part of our world, but they are not really on the radar for the non gun public.
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October 2, 2013, 03:08 PM | #35 |
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It's been my experience through careful observation that 999/1000 people who happen to notice a civilian with a HOLSTERED firearm don't register anything positive or negative. Noticing something is different than having a reaction to it. People see a holster and are conditioned to assume that the person is law-enforcement, which equates to "good guy". Even a very short and mostly concealed IWB holster is enough of a "holster" to trigger the "good guy" response, which is to have no reaction at all, just like they have no reaction to the gun a cop is carrying. Even if they've seen enough TV to know that you're not LEO, the holster is what convinces them you're not a bad guy.
On the other hand, seeing a person carrying a non-holstered firearm (tucked in a pocket, hanging on a belt, shoved down your pants, etc)... causes immediate red-flags for everybody. You assume after watching thousands of TV shows that the person is up to no good... we're conditioned. |
October 2, 2013, 03:23 PM | #36 |
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no matter what your mode of carry is, you will expose your gun when you extend your clothing beyond its designed fit. ankle carry conceals well, until you cross your legs or strike a Capt. Morgan pose. IWB works well until you strike a Y or A in the YMCA pose.
if you are not conscious of your gun, you will expose it regularly. |
October 2, 2013, 03:45 PM | #37 | |
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Quote:
I'm a schoolhouse cop, and I look at people's belts. Over the past several years the phones have gotten a little bigger (Think Samsung Galaxy S4) and the holsters have also gotten bigger. Folks are used to them and think nothing of a holster on someone's belt. |
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October 2, 2013, 08:09 PM | #38 |
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Just moved to FL from KY. It it is showing in KY LE sees it you will be stopped.
He will want to know how you like the gun, if you had any luck deer/turkey hunting this year and do you think UK is going to beat Louisville this year. FL is a little different story. 80% are Yankees and don't understand. Doug |
October 2, 2013, 08:28 PM | #39 |
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^^^LOL! Iowa isn't much different really. We do have to have a permit to carry, regardless of if it is concealed or not, so there isn't much of a big deal made out of it. I wear XXL polo shirts when I go to a larger city, but around the sticks where I live, I just wear my usual XL T shirts, if it prints it prints. I'd rather have access to it if it is needed. I may try having a weight sewn into the polos, that's a great idea.
I agree that 99 percent if not 99.9 percent of people will never notice.. and the other percent or so either carries themselves or is in some way a LEO. |
October 28, 2013, 09:47 AM | #40 |
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When I still lived in Canada, years ago, a big IPSC/USPSA match in Arizona, a buddy and I attended.
There was a question on carry concealed, open ok, concealed not. Spoke to local Police Officer in a mall. We both had vests on, he said what are you carrying, Colt 1911, what belt, and cost, magazines, same questions. That's partially concealed. And we were Canadians. A gang banger, with a .32 in his pocket, with 3 different manufacturers ammo, that's concealed! Said he. Interpretation Arizona style. |
October 29, 2013, 05:22 PM | #41 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
But I really haven't had a problem with it. Usually I pocket carry. On the rarer occasions where I do carry on my belt, I just don't do anything where I'm reaching, stretching, lifting, running, dancing, swimming, etc. |
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October 29, 2013, 09:31 PM | #42 |
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I normally carry a G19 IWB and could easily conceal a G17 or 1911 the same way. I carry mine about 3:30 so the butt of the gun doesn't protrude as much as say at 4 when bending over. If I must bend over I will often 1 knee it and stay as up right as practical.
When I need deep concealment for my job which includes manual labor I switch to rear pocket carry a Kahr CM9. Never an issue with that one at all. I am mindful of printing, but not nearly as much as when I first started carrying. No one is paying attention to anything out there but their stupid IPhones. |
October 30, 2013, 03:40 AM | #43 |
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concealed
better half was on a plane a few years back when this guy had to stretch to put his bag over head. when he sat down she looked at him and grinned said hard to keep concealed sometimes isnt it. he just looked at her with a sheepish grin. "air marshal"
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October 30, 2013, 04:53 AM | #44 |
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It happens to me on a fairly regular basis (It's hard to maintain a composure when you're chasing a 3-year-old all over God's green earth), but I'm lucky enough to live in a open carry state, so it doesn't really matter.
IWB might hold your gun a little closer in to your body and make it harder for your shirt to catch if it does ride up. Up here it's already cold enough for jackets which helps, but maybe a vest? Heavier fabrics tend to "stay down" better.
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October 30, 2013, 08:02 AM | #45 | |
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If you can't go IWB.....
Quote:
As others have noted, OWB requires a really long shirt ..... and maybe a weight on the hem of it, too ..... If your shirt keeps getting tucked up behind the gun, then your belt and holster are not keeping it close enough to your body. ...... that, and something (grips, holster, your (under and/or cover shirt(s), something) are not slippery enough to let the shirt fall back down when you straighten up ...... the sticky Pachmayr grips I had on my Ruger sp101 would cause my shirts to climb them in this manner.... If you are going to do a lot of bending over at the waist, get a smaller gun and move the gun aound to the 3:00 position so it does not stick out when you bend over ..... Last edited by jimbob86; October 30, 2013 at 08:19 AM. |
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October 30, 2013, 08:31 AM | #46 | |
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I've added Hawaiian shirts to the SMF vests and the giant oversized hoodies as stuff to watch for ..... |
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October 30, 2013, 09:57 AM | #47 |
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Happened to me in the grocery the other day. The lady behind me in the check out line made a comment about the weather and then told me that I was printing when I bent over.
I was IWB with my Ruger SR9c (10 rnd magazine) wearing a tshirt and sweatshirt that covered my waist, so... I"m not sure if she just happened to be ogling my fine choice in Grambling sweatshirt attire or if I was seriously showing when I bent over. I spent a few minutes in front of the mirror trying to figure that out after I got home. First time for everything, I guess. I'm sticking with the original setup for now. I'll just bend from the knees. It's better for me anyhow.
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October 30, 2013, 09:57 AM | #48 |
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Agreed, the use of "cover" clothing makes it even easier to ID a carrier. Having traveled in some circles with others who were Fed LE, it was easy to study. Buffed out musculature, crew cut, tactical wear, and a fanny pack in front made it obvious.
Same for all the Woolrich shirts, Hawaiian shirts, photographer vests, etc. If it's nice weather and there's just one guy in the area with a vest out of season, hmm. Are their other clues? Black duty high tops, or is the belt especially heavy construction, a tad too wide, and it's not from Walmart? I was at work when I came in the front door, a customer was reaching across the counter to pick up a heavy box when his sweater rode up and exposed his OWB holster. He quickly tugged it down - but what caught my attention was the fact it was heavily boned and looked exactly like what he intended to conceal - a gun. Are we doing ourselves a favor using a skin tight holster that actually gives things away? A gun guru once pointed out that if it's concealed carry, you don't expose your gun anymore than you would expose yourself. Give it the same attention. |
October 30, 2013, 11:21 PM | #49 | |
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Quote:
If concealment is intended and the person carrying intends to do anything other than walk around without bending over, reaching up or sitting down then even a relatively concealable OWB holster requires a cover garment that reaches below crotch level. The rule of thumb is 6" below the lowest point that reveals any recognizable part of the gun or holster.
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October 31, 2013, 10:56 AM | #50 | ||
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Some thoughts from Mas on this statement, in a email from him
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