9mm Handloads with Berrys 115 rn

TXJohn · December 14, 2013, 04:09 PM

Not new to reloading been loading for to many year years to mention. But have started loading 9mm with 115 gr Berry's RN bullets.

I have Unique, and HP-38 and was looking for a nice safe load to be shot out of a S&W MP9. I also have Blue Dot but have read things about it that concerns me on pressure. I am not a competitive shooter just want a good safe load that functions well and not get me into trouble, and need a simple OAL not to long or short since I know short OAL can get me into trouble in a hurry any one have a safe load that has work well in several 9's you may have had,any help would be appreciated.

I have several Manuals they are all over the place any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for any info.

John

WESHOOT2 · December 14, 2013, 04:25 PM

Start 5.0g Unique; figure 5.5g to be a 'standard' load under 115g of any construction.

TXJohn · December 14, 2013, 04:31 PM

Thanks WESHOOT2 have loaded 1000's of rife loads but have not loaded 9mm yet did not want to do a kaboom lol, Thanks again!

John

phillyr121 · December 14, 2013, 04:38 PM

I've been using HP-38 for some time now. It's the same as Winchester 321. My loads have been successful with 4.3 - 4.7. You'll have no problem with that.

WESHOOT2 · December 14, 2013, 04:38 PM

Unique offers some forgiveness room.......

Nick_C_S · December 14, 2013, 06:04 PM

One of my general purpose rounds with the 115g RN bullet is 4.0g of W231 (W231 & HP38 are the same powder). It's a great shooting/practice round that is accurate and will cycle your gun with no trouble.
This load yields:

966 FPS through a Khar CW9 (3.7" bbl)
1046 FPS through a Baretta 92SF (5" bbl)

So as you can see, it's not a rocket-hot round. Just an excellent GP shooter.

Unique is a good choice too. And as WESHOOT2 said, it gives a little more forgiveness because it's slower; if you feel an extra level of safety margin is important.

As far as Blue Dot goes: pressure isn't the problem. It's just too slow for the bullet weight and application. Don't bother. With 9mm, I'd only use Blue Dot with 147 grainers.

As far as OAL goes: You need to perform a "plunk test" with your MP9 and that Berry's bullet, to find the correct OAL. It's not something you should adjust. Find it. Set it. And forget it.

TXJohn · December 14, 2013, 06:34 PM

Thanks guys, not looking for oal close to max just a safe oal that will feed with no problems.

John

rdmallory · December 14, 2013, 08:45 PM

HP38 and 115 is my steal plate load. Use the load right off the jug.

Doug

Swampman1 · December 14, 2013, 08:51 PM

Ditto...4.3-4.4 gr of HP-38 fires great.

Nick_C_S · December 14, 2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Ditto...4.3-4.4 gr of HP-38 fires great.

Yes, my 4.0g is a modest round. There's definitely room to increase the grainage

57K · December 14, 2013, 09:14 PM

TXJohn, do a search for 9mm OAL, OCL, COAL, OACL etc. It is best to establish OACL with the bullet you're using from the pistol it's to be fired from. If you don't find something that helps, shoot me a PM. It's easy to do with cast and plated and really easy when you use jacketed bullets.

Of what you have, Unique is probably the best all-around choice but accurate loads can be easily done with HP38/W231. I've loaded thousands of 9mm rounds with Blue Dot. It is a Max. effort powder that works best when loaded warm with compressed charges. It's capable of performance beyond what your plated bullets are rated for.

I prefer spherical powders that are just slower than Unique. If you can find True Blue, it will do well in any cartridge you load it in and particularly 9mm and .40 S&W. It's very dense and fine grained so it meters at least 100% better than Unique while being more uniform ballistically. The other powder I'd recommend is the one I use in my defense handloads and that's Silhouette. It's treated to have low flash and is very well suited to 9mm, especially if you want to replicate factory loads. Plenty of good data for cast, plated and jacketed bullets at www.ramshot.com. Download the data while you're there and if you request it, they'll send you a printed version that offers good tips on reloading as well.

TXJohn · December 15, 2013, 07:41 AM

Thanks again for all of the info guys, I went with 5.2 of unique and a oal of 1.150 with the Berrys. I will post results as soon as I can get to the range to try.

John

Reloader2 · December 15, 2013, 03:51 PM

John

I am interested in your results. One been loading some 9mm with 4.0 grains of Titegroup and seating the Berry's bullets to 1.100".
I was loading a little hotter but found the Lee Auto disc measure would drop 4.0 grains consistently.
I'm new to semi-auto pistols and my first purchase was a Beretta M-9.

TimSr · December 18, 2013, 08:55 AM

Don't be afraid to try Blue Dot. No pressure issues, in fact, its hard to get into trouble with or overload Blue Dot in 9mm because the case will be full or near full. My favorite 115gr load (both bast and JHP) is over 8.4 gr Blue Dot. Start at 8.0.

SWThomas · December 18, 2013, 09:24 AM

I get confused about reading theads like this... If you've been reloading for many years, why not just go with the published min/max in reloading manuals and work up your own load?

nlaudato · December 18, 2013, 12:13 PM

Have ran hundreds of 115gr RN Berrys with 5.2gr unique at 1.135. Good target round.

TimSr · December 18, 2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

I get confused about reading theads like this... If you've been reloading for many years, why not just go with the published min/max in reloading manuals and work up your own load?

Best idea yet. If there is no load data for it, its probably not an exceptional load.

WESHOOT2 · December 18, 2013, 02:54 PM

Blue Dot can respond erractically in extreme temperatures, hot and cold.

I only recommend Blue Dot in medium-bullet-weight high-performance 10mm.

9miller · December 19, 2013, 12:57 PM

I've found 4.5gr of titegroup with the 115gr Berrys to be magic, just got back from the range maybe an hour ago with the load, shot great as always, I as well load to an OAL of 1.150 with these. Shooting out of a S&W sigma.

Strafer Gott · December 19, 2013, 03:53 PM

Bluedot doesn't really turn on at low pressures. Like Nick said, if you can give it something to push like a heavy bullet, it really comes alive. With a light bullet like the 115 gr 9mm, you have to use more than 8 grains to get it to light efficiently. Even then you get a pretty awesome flash, not a very efficient powder in small cases.

TXJohn · December 19, 2013, 04:20 PM

SWTHOMAS I have been reloading for years but have a read a lot about Blue Dot not being the best for 9mm just asking for advice for some that have loaded with BD. I have just started reloading for the 9mm and was wondering what some people have been loading.

I thought this was a place where I could ask some questions with out your smart a$$ answer!! If you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut. I have loaded more ammo than you have ever shot. So in closing I don't need you smart a$$ comments. If you read my first post my manuals are all over the place with loads with BD. that is if you can read?

Thanks to those who have giving me good advice.

larryh1108 · December 19, 2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

I thought this was a place where I could ask some questions with out your smart a$$ answer!! If you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut. I have loaded more ammo than you have ever shot. So in closing I don't need you smart a$$ comments. If you read my first post my manuals are all over the place with loads with BD. that is if you can read?

Well said!

I never could get why some people open their mouths without offering a bit of good advice. If you have nothing to add to the conversation then just move on. Some guys just need to add their two cents I guess. However, if you add up all their posts I'd bet you don't get a pennys worth of good advice.

57K · December 20, 2013, 01:59 PM

TXJohn, Blue Dot was once a great choice for 9 x19mm and I loaded thousands of rounds using it. The thing is, that was when the 9mm's pressure rating was 35,700 CUP which is very close to today's +P at 38,500 PSI. At 35,000 PSI/33,000 CUP, today's SAAMI standard pressure, Blue Dot is just beginning to get warmed up. It performs best with compressed charges, some of them fairly heavily compressed and there just isn't any data around for that today with the exception of getting an older manual like the SPEER #11 which was their last before SAAMI reduced the 9mm's pressure rating. Be advised though, if you find such a manual and use the data, You will be shooting today's equivelant of +P. When loaded warm, Blue Dot can be extremely accurate but velocities are likely to be as high as anything you're gonna find labeled +P.

TXJohn · December 20, 2013, 02:23 PM

Thanks 57K, I think I will hold out on the Blue Dot for now I have plenty of Unique, HP-38 AND 700X. I have been looking for some Power Pistol and maybe some Titegroup but haven't had much luck finding them local. Thanks again for all the great info provided in this thread. If I can ever find some
147s I may give the BD a try.

John

57K · December 20, 2013, 02:38 PM

You're welcome. Ramshot True Blue and Silhouette are a couple of others you might want to keep in mind. Both are very well suited to the 9 x 19mm and Silhouette is what I use in my defense handloads up to +P. It has a flash inhibitor and both powders are very pressure stable. My warmest Silhouette +P loads are very uniform ballistically and statistically when fired over my chronograph and accuracy is on par with the excellent stats, typically standard deviations around 6 for 10 shot strings.

December 14, 2013, 04:25 PM	#2
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	standard Start 5.0g Unique; figure 5.5g to be a 'standard' load under 115g of any construction. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 14, 2013, 04:38 PM	#4
phillyr121 Member Join Date: October 27, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 23	Using HP-38 I've been using HP-38 for some time now. It's the same as Winchester 321. My loads have been successful with 4.3 - 4.7. You'll have no problem with that. __________________ " Wanting to reach perfection, hoping never to attain it"

December 14, 2013, 04:38 PM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Unique offers some forgiveness room....... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 14, 2013, 06:04 PM	#6
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	One of my general purpose rounds with the 115g RN bullet is 4.0g of W231 (W231 & HP38 are the same powder). It's a great shooting/practice round that is accurate and will cycle your gun with no trouble. This load yields: 966 FPS through a Khar CW9 (3.7" bbl) 1046 FPS through a Baretta 92SF (5" bbl) So as you can see, it's not a rocket-hot round. Just an excellent GP shooter. Unique is a good choice too. And as WESHOOT2 said, it gives a little more forgiveness because it's slower; if you feel an extra level of safety margin is important. As far as Blue Dot goes: pressure isn't the problem. It's just too slow for the bullet weight and application. Don't bother. With 9mm, I'd only use Blue Dot with 147 grainers. As far as OAL goes: You need to perform a "plunk test" with your MP9 and that Berry's bullet, to find the correct OAL. It's not something you should adjust. Find it. Set it. And forget it. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

December 18, 2013, 02:54 PM	#18
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	actual Blue Dot can respond erractically in extreme temperatures, hot and cold. I only recommend Blue Dot in medium-bullet-weight high-performance 10mm. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 14, 2013, 04:09 PM	#1
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	9mm Handloads with Berrys 115 rn Not new to reloading been loading for to many year years to mention. But have started loading 9mm with 115 gr Berry's RN bullets. I have Unique, and HP-38 and was looking for a nice safe load to be shot out of a S&W MP9. I also have Blue Dot but have read things about it that concerns me on pressure. I am not a competitive shooter just want a good safe load that functions well and not get me into trouble, and need a simple OAL not to long or short since I know short OAL can get me into trouble in a hurry any one have a safe load that has work well in several 9's you may have had,any help would be appreciated. I have several Manuals they are all over the place any help would be appreciated. Thanks for any info. John

December 14, 2013, 04:31 PM	#3
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	Thanks WESHOOT2 have loaded 1000's of rife loads but have not loaded 9mm yet did not want to do a kaboom lol, Thanks again! John

December 14, 2013, 06:34 PM	#7
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	Thanks guys, not looking for oal close to max just a safe oal that will feed with no problems. John

December 14, 2013, 08:45 PM	#8
rdmallory Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 953	HP38 and 115 is my steal plate load. Use the load right off the jug. Doug

December 14, 2013, 08:51 PM	#9
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Ditto...4.3-4.4 gr of HP-38 fires great.

December 14, 2013, 09:14 PM	#11
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	TXJohn, do a search for 9mm OAL, OCL, COAL, OACL etc. It is best to establish OACL with the bullet you're using from the pistol it's to be fired from. If you don't find something that helps, shoot me a PM. It's easy to do with cast and plated and really easy when you use jacketed bullets. Of what you have, Unique is probably the best all-around choice but accurate loads can be easily done with HP38/W231. I've loaded thousands of 9mm rounds with Blue Dot. It is a Max. effort powder that works best when loaded warm with compressed charges. It's capable of performance beyond what your plated bullets are rated for. I prefer spherical powders that are just slower than Unique. If you can find True Blue, it will do well in any cartridge you load it in and particularly 9mm and .40 S&W. It's very dense and fine grained so it meters at least 100% better than Unique while being more uniform ballistically. The other powder I'd recommend is the one I use in my defense handloads and that's Silhouette. It's treated to have low flash and is very well suited to 9mm, especially if you want to replicate factory loads. Plenty of good data for cast, plated and jacketed bullets at www.ramshot.com. Download the data while you're there and if you request it, they'll send you a printed version that offers good tips on reloading as well.

December 15, 2013, 07:41 AM	#12
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	Thanks again for all of the info guys, I went with 5.2 of unique and a oal of 1.150 with the Berrys. I will post results as soon as I can get to the range to try. John

December 15, 2013, 03:51 PM	#13
Reloader2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2013 Posts: 263	John I am interested in your results. One been loading some 9mm with 4.0 grains of Titegroup and seating the Berry's bullets to 1.100". I was loading a little hotter but found the Lee Auto disc measure would drop 4.0 grains consistently. I'm new to semi-auto pistols and my first purchase was a Beretta M-9.

December 18, 2013, 08:55 AM	#14
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Don't be afraid to try Blue Dot. No pressure issues, in fact, its hard to get into trouble with or overload Blue Dot in 9mm because the case will be full or near full. My favorite 115gr load (both bast and JHP) is over 8.4 gr Blue Dot. Start at 8.0.

December 18, 2013, 09:24 AM	#15
SWThomas Member Join Date: August 17, 2013 Location: Fort Lee, VA Posts: 73	I get confused about reading theads like this... If you've been reloading for many years, why not just go with the published min/max in reloading manuals and work up your own load?

December 18, 2013, 12:13 PM	#16
nlaudato Junior Member Join Date: June 19, 2013 Posts: 2	Have ran hundreds of 115gr RN Berrys with 5.2gr unique at 1.135. Good target round.

December 19, 2013, 12:57 PM	#19
9miller Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 169	I've found 4.5gr of titegroup with the 115gr Berrys to be magic, just got back from the range maybe an hour ago with the load, shot great as always, I as well load to an OAL of 1.150 with these. Shooting out of a S&W sigma.

December 19, 2013, 03:53 PM	#20
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	Bluedot doesn't really turn on at low pressures. Like Nick said, if you can give it something to push like a heavy bullet, it really comes alive. With a light bullet like the 115 gr 9mm, you have to use more than 8 grains to get it to light efficiently. Even then you get a pretty awesome flash, not a very efficient powder in small cases. Last edited by Strafer Gott; December 19, 2013 at 09:15 PM.

December 19, 2013, 04:20 PM	#21
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	SWTHOMAS I have been reloading for years but have a read a lot about Blue Dot not being the best for 9mm just asking for advice for some that have loaded with BD. I have just started reloading for the 9mm and was wondering what some people have been loading. I thought this was a place where I could ask some questions with out your smart a$$ answer!! If you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut. I have loaded more ammo than you have ever shot. So in closing I don't need you smart a$$ comments. If you read my first post my manuals are all over the place with loads with BD. that is if you can read? Thanks to those who have giving me good advice.

December 20, 2013, 01:59 PM	#23
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	TXJohn, Blue Dot was once a great choice for 9 x19mm and I loaded thousands of rounds using it. The thing is, that was when the 9mm's pressure rating was 35,700 CUP which is very close to today's +P at 38,500 PSI. At 35,000 PSI/33,000 CUP, today's SAAMI standard pressure, Blue Dot is just beginning to get warmed up. It performs best with compressed charges, some of them fairly heavily compressed and there just isn't any data around for that today with the exception of getting an older manual like the SPEER #11 which was their last before SAAMI reduced the 9mm's pressure rating. Be advised though, if you find such a manual and use the data, You will be shooting today's equivelant of +P. When loaded warm, Blue Dot can be extremely accurate but velocities are likely to be as high as anything you're gonna find labeled +P.

December 20, 2013, 02:23 PM	#24
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	Thanks 57K, I think I will hold out on the Blue Dot for now I have plenty of Unique, HP-38 AND 700X. I have been looking for some Power Pistol and maybe some Titegroup but haven't had much luck finding them local. Thanks again for all the great info provided in this thread. If I can ever find some 147s I may give the BD a try. John Last edited by TXJohn; December 20, 2013 at 02:35 PM.

December 20, 2013, 02:38 PM	#25
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	You're welcome. Ramshot True Blue and Silhouette are a couple of others you might want to keep in mind. Both are very well suited to the 9 x 19mm and Silhouette is what I use in my defense handloads up to +P. It has a flash inhibitor and both powders are very pressure stable. My warmest Silhouette +P loads are very uniform ballistically and statistically when fired over my chronograph and accuracy is on par with the excellent stats, typically standard deviations around 6 for 10 shot strings.