Super Ultra High Velocity Loads

Adamantium · February 7, 2002, 02:17 PM

Right now I'm looking at reloading data for steel loads that push an 1 1/8 oz. of steel out of a 2 3/4 shell at 1485 fps. That is about 150 fps more than any lead load of any weight that I have ever seen both in reloading manuals or on the shelf at a store. I know you can't directly compare lead and steel, but theoritically if you can shoot one at a given weight at a high velocity, you should be able to do the same to the other if you tinker around with the powder and other components.

What I am wondering, more out of curiosity than use, is that why are there no lead shotshells out there with such a high M.V.? I have thought of a few reasons myself, but I thought I'd run them by you all, because I'd like to see what you think.

It obviously wouldn't be made for any clay games because it would be against the rules as far as I know, so hunting would have to be the primary use.

The first thought after that is that lead retains velocity better, so there has never been a demand for it. Plus with the "Recoil Premium" no one would want it if they could shoot fine with a lower velocty load. Another thing to think about is that lead might badly deform if you try to increase the load power, and you would have a load that would have the potential for long range but a pattern so big at any bird would just fly right through the holes in it. It would also probably be an solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Most hunting that would use a light load is upland, and to use the extra range you would have to choke up to full and extra full, and by doing that would either miss or destroy any closer shots, which is most of them from my experiance. And Turkey hunting would use a much heavier load than what we are talking about.

Not to shoot down the idea that is the reason for my post, but just adding my 2 cents to why there is no demand for an ultra high velocity lead load. Even though it would be an interesting shell and I'd probably buy a box just to experiment with.

Sincerely,
Adam

Kobra · February 7, 2002, 03:02 PM

Well because steel is less dense and is therefore lighter when compared to the same size lead pellet than it will accelerate faster.

Poodleshooter · February 7, 2002, 05:44 PM

There are! Reloaders shooting with a powder called Longshot can get velocities of around 1500fps with lead loads. As you noted most people don't do this with lead because it is easy to deform pellets and get crappy patterns at that speed, even with fancy buffers and magnum shot. Steel pellets have an advantage in that they will not deform as readily. Hence,you can boost them to velocities nearing 1700fps as a reloader and close to 1500 in factory ammo such as Kent's FASTEEL. The guys on waterfowler.net have done some interesting things with extremely high speed steel shot reloads.

Adamantium · February 7, 2002, 09:33 PM

Kobra, actually we ar comparing weight alone, not pellet count. It s sort of like the old trick question "Which is heavier, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?"

Sincerely,
Adam

Hawkaaa53 · February 8, 2002, 12:29 AM

To answer your specific question --- there are none available because there is no demand that is of commercial consequence .

Is further discussion necessary ? - - not trying to be snide just concise . Hawkaaa53

February 7, 2002, 02:17 PM	#1
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Super Ultra High Velocity Loads Right now I'm looking at reloading data for steel loads that push an 1 1/8 oz. of steel out of a 2 3/4 shell at 1485 fps. That is about 150 fps more than any lead load of any weight that I have ever seen both in reloading manuals or on the shelf at a store. I know you can't directly compare lead and steel, but theoritically if you can shoot one at a given weight at a high velocity, you should be able to do the same to the other if you tinker around with the powder and other components. What I am wondering, more out of curiosity than use, is that why are there no lead shotshells out there with such a high M.V.? I have thought of a few reasons myself, but I thought I'd run them by you all, because I'd like to see what you think. It obviously wouldn't be made for any clay games because it would be against the rules as far as I know, so hunting would have to be the primary use. The first thought after that is that lead retains velocity better, so there has never been a demand for it. Plus with the "Recoil Premium" no one would want it if they could shoot fine with a lower velocty load. Another thing to think about is that lead might badly deform if you try to increase the load power, and you would have a load that would have the potential for long range but a pattern so big at any bird would just fly right through the holes in it. It would also probably be an solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Most hunting that would use a light load is upland, and to use the extra range you would have to choke up to full and extra full, and by doing that would either miss or destroy any closer shots, which is most of them from my experiance. And Turkey hunting would use a much heavier load than what we are talking about. Not to shoot down the idea that is the reason for my post, but just adding my 2 cents to why there is no demand for an ultra high velocity lead load. Even though it would be an interesting shell and I'd probably buy a box just to experiment with. Sincerely, Adam __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

February 7, 2002, 09:33 PM	#4
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Kobra, actually we ar comparing weight alone, not pellet count. It s sort of like the old trick question "Which is heavier, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" Sincerely, Adam __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

February 7, 2002, 03:02 PM	#2
Kobra Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2001 Location: LA - KY (Cajun Hillbilly) Posts: 338	Well because steel is less dense and is therefore lighter when compared to the same size lead pellet than it will accelerate faster.

February 7, 2002, 05:44 PM	#3
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	There are! Reloaders shooting with a powder called Longshot can get velocities of around 1500fps with lead loads. As you noted most people don't do this with lead because it is easy to deform pellets and get crappy patterns at that speed, even with fancy buffers and magnum shot. Steel pellets have an advantage in that they will not deform as readily. Hence,you can boost them to velocities nearing 1700fps as a reloader and close to 1500 in factory ammo such as Kent's FASTEEL. The guys on waterfowler.net have done some interesting things with extremely high speed steel shot reloads.

February 8, 2002, 12:29 AM	#5
Hawkaaa53 Member Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: Deep South Posts: 45	To answer your specific question --- there are none available because there is no demand that is of commercial consequence . Is further discussion necessary ? - - not trying to be snide just concise . Hawkaaa53