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Old February 25, 2018, 12:14 PM   #26
Lohman446
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Various school staff, unarmed, responded while the SRO took cover. Nope. No excuse svailable
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Old February 25, 2018, 01:49 PM   #27
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And now the sheriff is saying that reports of more than one deputy failing to enter are incorrect.

http://www.newser.com/story/255830/s...-shooting.html

As always, the devil is in the details. First, the incident was almost two weeks ago, and the allegations of dereliction of duty by Broward County deputies came to light almost immediately -- from the Coral Springs officers who were the first to make entry. Why has it taken the sheriff almost two weeks to respond? Perhaps because he had to find the appropriate way to deny the allegation with out actually lying. So:

Quote:
Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel told CNN on Sunday that investigators are looking into claims that three other deputies were on the scene but failed to enter the school when the chance to save lives still existed. To date, the investigation pointed to only one deputy being on campus while the killer was present, he said.
The bolded statement may be true -- but VERY misleading. The entire shooting took (according to timelines I've seen) five minutes. It probably took at least a couple of minutes for (former) Deputy Peterson to get to the building, and maybe another minute or two for other deputies to arrive. So "while the killer was present" is a very significant set of weasel words. Maybe the other three didn't show up until after the killer had departed -- but Peterson and the others on the outside didn't know that. That wasn't established until much later, when the video tapes were reviewed.

Coral Springs officers have said there were four Broward deputies in the parking lot when they (Coral Springs) arrived, and that none of those four made entry with or immediately behind them. Two other Broward deputies and an officer from another jurisdiction did participate in entering and clearing the building.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 25, 2018 at 02:49 PM. Reason: typo
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Old February 25, 2018, 02:25 PM   #28
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Broward Sheriff defends response to Parkland shooting amid criticism, says he has given ‘amazing leadership’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.aac6f2bae90b
Yes, I am amazed. And not in a good way.
His constituents are burying their offspring, and he sounds like a politician working on damage control.

"Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Sunday that he should bear no responsibility for the missed warning signs before the Feb. 14 mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School that killed 17 students and faculty members.

“I can only take responsibility for what I knew about,” Israel said in an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “I’ve given amazing leadership to this agency.”


Burying his head in the sand, and you know where that sand is.
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Old February 25, 2018, 03:56 PM   #29
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It gets worse. An anonymous EMT on the scene is saying they wanted to make entry to treat victims and the scene commander (Broward County deputies?) did not allow it. He also says at least one victim waited 45 minutes for treatment: https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018...ls-no-punches/
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Old February 25, 2018, 04:21 PM   #30
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For some strange reason, teachers can be trusted with children and not firearms. Teachers that can be trusted with firearms concealed on their persons cannot be trusted with such on a school campus.

The state demands we wait for police to save us but then the police come but wait outside. Very strange.

Police have no legal duty to protect anyone, that includes school children. Clearly we need more govt.

Last edited by In The Ten Ring; February 25, 2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Old February 25, 2018, 07:40 PM   #31
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For some strange reason, teachers can be trusted with children and not firearms. Teachers that can be trusted with firearms concealed on their persons cannot be trusted with such on a school campus.

The state demands we wait for police to save us but then the police come but wait outside. Very strange.
My compliments, sir. The most concise and clear three-in-a-row statements I've ever read.
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Old February 25, 2018, 08:11 PM   #32
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The legal non-obligation of police to protect any single individual references individuals. IIRC the case law is based on an individual who wanted police protection for a correctly perceived threat. It does not apply to a non-obligation to address ongoing active threats

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Old February 25, 2018, 09:00 PM   #33
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That brings us to question of the hour.

How many Broward County Deputies does it take to stop a school shooting?

Answer: No one knows, it has never been tried.
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Old February 25, 2018, 11:04 PM   #34
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I understand per Sheriff Israel, there is an ongoing internal invesigation as to why they did not enter. Kind of makes one frown. Why not an investigation by the Florida Burea of Investigation? Is the Sheriff going to let everything come out looking clean when he is already in jeopardy of loosing his job?

I do not know all the facts and maybe they will come out soon. I do know you have 4 deputies of the Sheriff's Department getting there first and doing nothing. Then you have the local Police Department getting there too late? Should it be investigated as to why it took the police longer to get there than the sheriff's department? It almost sounds like the Sheriff's Dept. got there and had a cigarette whild the Police Dept. decided to have their cigarette at the coffee shop and then go to where the danger was at.

I could be all wrong or just don't have the facts.
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Old February 25, 2018, 11:13 PM   #35
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Just proves the old saying “when secoconds count, police are minutes away”.

That’s not bashing any LEO, it’s just how life is.
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Old February 25, 2018, 11:36 PM   #36
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South Florida. Give it back to the Tequestas.
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Old February 25, 2018, 11:38 PM   #37
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I could be all wrong or just don't have the facts.
I'm going with this option.
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Old February 26, 2018, 12:39 AM   #38
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Sounds like the City police went straight in. Leadership?
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Old February 26, 2018, 02:27 AM   #39
In The Ten Ring
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The legal non-obligation of police to protect any single individual references individuals. IIRC the case law is based on an individual who wanted police protection for a correctly perceived threat. It does not apply to a non-obligation to address ongoing active threats

Might want to tell that to Ferguson, LA, Charlottesville, and Baltimore police departments that stood down in the face of riots.
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Old February 26, 2018, 08:25 AM   #40
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Sounds like the City police went straight in. Leadership?
Could be training, too. Proper active shooter training is enormously expensive.

There's always a tug of war between manpower (having folks in the field), required annual/quarterly/etc training, and training you'd love to do (but aren't required). Often, it's manpower that wins out.
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Old February 26, 2018, 10:23 AM   #41
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Could be training, too. Proper active shooter training is enormously expensive
Could also be cross-training. IF the other agency had already entered the building and was clearing it another team attempting to do the same thing may result in crossfire issues.

While I am heavily concerned about the responding officers that failed to enter and willing to push the SRO who was on scene when it started and failed to act "under the bus" I am going to delineate the two issues as separate and at least want to hear why the responding deputies did not enter.

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to them as individuals (though not to the department as a whole). They may have effectively been told to "lead, follow, or get out of the way" and lacked the necessary leadership to properly lead (or follow) or simply been second on scene with an effective leadership set up by the other department and handling the situation which, by most accounts, was over by then.

Last edited by Lohman446; February 26, 2018 at 10:29 AM.
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Old February 26, 2018, 12:06 PM   #42
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I agree with you Cirdan about the police going straight in. My question is how come four sheriff deputies got there ahead of the police? Are they located closer to the schooL?

It almost sounds like the Sheriff's men were there when the shooting was ongoing. Then the shooting had ceased prior to the police arriving. This is another reason why there should be an investigation by the Florida Department of investigation. The official investigagion of the Broward Sheriff's Dept. should not be conducted by the Sheriff.
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Old February 26, 2018, 02:23 PM   #43
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Police versus Sheriff

Sheriff's departments are county jurisdictions. Cities may or may not have their own police for city limits. It is typical that the areas they patrol, and the institutions they are responsible for, to overlap. It is NORMAL.
If county has the responsibility for the school district, they place the School officer. Even if the school is in a city with its own police, but does not cover the school district. Even with overlap, in an emergency, either or both, may get there first and they cooperate, although one will eventually exert jurisdiction, and primary authority (do the paperwork).
In some remote areas, state highway patrol may be the first responders, simply because they have a station in the area and can get there first, while deputies will come asap, later.
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Old February 26, 2018, 02:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
The official investigagion of the Broward Sheriff's Dept. should not be conducted by the Sheriff.
I agree. He does not have time anyway, because he's too busy covering his assets, when he isn't amazing everyone with his leadership.

Personally, I think you can start a 24 hour clock now until he is removed or resigns.
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Old February 27, 2018, 08:16 AM   #45
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Marco Calilfo I would like to rearrange your last sentence to read:

"Personally, I think you can start a 24 hour clock now until he is removed or resigns and it started 24,000 hours too late."

The more I see of that guy leaves me to believe his ego is the size of the Hindenburg.
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:27 AM   #46
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I get the impression from the sheriff himself that he has no intention of resigning. He praised his own great leadership.
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:59 AM   #47
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I think the Sheriff is using all this free publicity to prepare for an upcoming run for the State or even US legislature.
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Old February 27, 2018, 11:18 AM   #48
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"he has no intention of resigning."
True. He is dellusional. He is only fooling himself. But you can stick a fork in him, he is DONE.
He will need a gentle nudge from the governor, which FLA politicians have already demanded and petitioned for. He wont resign unless he is given an ultimatum: resign or be removed.
His political career is over, and he is a liability to everyone. Maybe he will reemerge as a talk show host with Marcia Clark, called the Biggest Losers.
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Old February 27, 2018, 12:09 PM   #49
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He’s on the side that has the moral high ground, he will be sheriff until his term is up and will probably get re-elected.
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Old February 27, 2018, 02:19 PM   #50
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Just a reminder that partisan politics are off-topic here -- I've deleted some posts.
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