Ballistic question from a newbie

[sandrabsh]

Good day everyone
I have a really newbie question. Yesterday on a shooting range my instructor asked me to bring a ballistic calculator with me next time, I simple answered yes but I do not own one and know nothing about them.
Could someone here recommend a decent ballistic calculator or show me the where I could find one myself?
this could be really helpful

[stinkeypete]

Perhaps if you bring him a spool of firing line he would be satisfied???

Only two things come to mind-
if you guys are experimenting with ammunition, one uses a chonograph.
If you are experimenting with different ranges, you might want to know the ballistic path- for example, if you want to shoot .22 rimfire at 50 yards, zero at 50 feet usually is pretty close...

If you’ve got one of those newfangled smart phones, search for an ap. Dinosaurs like me bring their reloading book. A quick google search found me a ballistics calculator on the web.

It would be helpful in answering your question if we knew WHY.

Welcome to TFL

[BJung]

I plan to use the Hornady ballistic calculator. It can be downloaded free on your smartphone.https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...alculators/#!/

Personally, I have not used them yet because I am still conducting test loads at the range and then determining my ideal MV with the chronograph before using it.

Here is a website for reviews comparing ballistic calculators. But I think a quick search on long-range hunting or sniper hide would have good reviews too on which to choose.

https://www.range365.com/10-best-bal...lculator-apps/

I hope this helps

[AK103K]

I use this one for most things related.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballis...culators.shtml

There are a number of options, but the "Trajectory -- Simplified" tab is what I normally use.

You can pick and chose and its a big help for getting things zeroed or working up loads.

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't understand why an instructor would ask a new shooter/student to get a ballistic calculator for an instruction session. What type of firearm is this for, rimfire rifle, centerfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or centerfire handgun? What type of shooting are you being trained for?

[HiBC]

Rather than try to redirect you,OP,I'll try to answer your question.
Back in the day,I bought a Sierra ballistic software,and installed it on my 386 computer with floppy discs.
It has served me well many years.
But,its old.I don't use it any more.

There are very sophisticated softwares that may be useful if you are a professional or competitive long range shooter.

Frankly,I'm not in that world .Kestrel makes wind gauges for shooters,and they have an interface with Applied Ballistic software.. That just gives you something to research.

A handy,accessable tool someone else mentioned,that is free,is the Hornady ballistic software. Go to Hornady.s website. It will work great for getting acquainted with ballistic software,and it may meet your every need.

You will need a chronographed bullet velocity . No chrono? You can substitute published velocities but you will get more accurate results with a chrono.

You will need to know your sight height above the bore.

You will need to know your bullet ballistic coefficient. There is more to learn about it than I care to write. You might poke around Berger Bullets or Sierra's website to see what you learn. The BC is a number that represents a "drag factor" for your bullet's shape. With it,your software can calculate how much your bullet slows as it goes downrange.
Other inputs will be altitude,temperature,barometric pressure,and relative humidity.

The software will calculate wind corrections. You will be able to enter a wind speed and angle.
OK I can hear folks howling. Wind runs in threads. Its not typically constant
But it can give you a good idea what an average of a 10 mph or 5 mph wind would show on target,and you can factor 90 deg,or 45 deg,etc.It will give you a solid idea what a 10mph crosswind will do to your bullet at a known range,like 400 yds.

You can enter an angle of uphill or downhill.

And,you enter a zero range.

You will be able to enter whether you want data to 500 yds,or 1000 yds.

You can get data every 100 yds or 25 yds. You specify "interval"

Now....Come caveats. Some skeptics will tell you the software is no good,blah blah blah. Some have never used the software,or the rule "Garbage in,garbage out" applies. The software works remarkably well.

You have to enter accurate data. Chrono velocity.

Bullet manufacturers know higher BC's sell bullets. Advertised BC's are often inflated a bit. More folks are getting dopler chronos that can give you your BC accurately as it comes from your barrel..

You will soon learn its a tool with many uses,

You can optimize trajectories, figure the up close sight in range to give you a 300 yd zero,what sight change to get a 500 yd zero,compare the trade between a 165 gr bullet and a 180 gr bullet.

I decided I wanted to build a rifle to match the Boone and Crocket reticle.

I pulled up the reticle data from Leupold. With a 300 yd zero ,a 3,5 to 10X VX3,and the lowest rings I could use,figuring elk altitude of (I forget) 7000 ?feet,maybe 8000,I came up with the 30/338 shooting a 200 gr Accubond at 2900 fps. Center crosshair,300. The hashmarks aligned at 400,500,and 600.

I ordered a Lilja barrel and an Elliot reamer. Built the rifle. Loaded the ammo.
290 fps,200 grain Accubond.
Back went out.Shooting was very painful,but I got my 300 yd zero. Lasered a target at 500. Put the 500 yd hashmark on the target and fired one round.

Went downrange. It as a 10 X hit.

You can learn a lot making changes and observing results in the software.

Give that free Hornady a try.

Good Luck!

[Sharkbite]

Strelok pro is what i use. Its an app (there is a free version, the “pro” costs like $10-$12).

I have data on all my fav rifles. 308, 300blk, 556, 17hmr, 22lr, the list goes on.

Once you input your ammo data (velocity, BC, bullet weight, etc), scope data (height above bore, reticle style, magnification range, mil/mrad/moa, etc), the app allows you to play with zero distance, wind speed and direction, tgt distance. You can find come ups at any distance from 5yds to whatever you want.

It allows you to overlay your reticle on a variety of tgts and actually SEE your holds.

GREAT APP 2 thumbs up

[Nathan]

JBM Ballistis free web page....app costs a little

Strelok

Do some looking as I believe Bushnell and Horus are considered quite good for free.

[T. O'Heir]

While I agree with Aguila, do a net search for one.
A ballistics calculator is a useless thing anyway. There are far too many variables. Note the kind of info required for the Hornady one. You have all that? You have the BC for your bullet? The wind velocity etc, etc.?

[HiBC]

Useless thing??
Its a tool. Lack of skill and or experience with a tool is a comment on the operator.
Some folks have used it/seen it/done it,and some are skeptics.

Xenophobia and speculation versus real world experience.

You don't think your amazing Canadian Snipers use ballistic software? How about Abrahms tanks? Apache Helicopters?

While ,agreed,published BC's will show some error,we still get really close. A .522 BC versus a .536 BC will still give useful data.

I forget the source,but a doppler radar based database of many bullets as they travel down range through changing velocity is available.

I have derived BC by chronographing near the firing line and a lasered 300 yds. The software will help calculate BC.

And as you gain notes and dope, your software can update a 3000 ft elevation change (that your Kestrel can measure! Altitude,barometric pressure,temp,all available in your Kestrel!! And,it does not even require pushing buttons, Bluetooth plugs it in.

[AK103K]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

While I agree with Aguila, do a net search for one.
A ballistics calculator is a useless thing anyway. There are far too many variables. Note the kind of info required for the Hornady one. You have all that? You have the BC for your bullet? The wind velocity etc, etc.?

Im not sure where youre coming up with it being useless. I find they can be very handy.

If you do just some minor research, you can get most of the necessary info needed with little trouble. A couple of the reloading manuals now have the BC for thier bullets listed, and if they dont, you can usually find it on the web pretty quick, if you look.

Youre phone can give you the base weather info.

From what Ive seen, if you put in just the basic info, the results are usually pretty close in the field when you go to verify. Plenty close enough to get an initial zero, and especially if youre limited to shorter ranges to work with.

I still try my best to verify at the other distances, but the difference usually isnt all that far off, and while I might fine tune things a bit farther out, Im still pretty close.

Sure beats guessing or assuming.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HiBC

Useless thing??
Its a tool. Lack of skill and or experience with a tool is a comment on the operator.
Some folks have used it/seen it/done it,and some are skeptics.

Xenophobia and speculation versus real world experience.

You don't think your amazing Canadian Snipers use ballistic software? How about Abrahms tanks? Apache Helicopters?

Sure, it's a tool. Sure, it has its uses. But the OP wrote that she's a newbie. Regardless of whether she's receiving instruction on a rifle or on a handgun, the intricacies of ballistic calculation should (IMHO) follow after she has reached a fair degree of competence shooting a single caliber and bullet weight over a single distance.

If the OP really is a newbie, I think bringing in a ballistic calulator is a classic case of "too much [data], too soon."

[HiBC]

Depends.
There can be more than one good path to learning to shoot.
It might be the perspective is basic gun safety,then poking big targets at seven yards.
Thats not wrong.

The 50 ft indoor 22 Junior NRA Bullseye program I started with is equally good.

And the WW2 rifle Marksmanship training films focus on flight of the bullet,trajectory,wind,sight adjustment,etc ...a foundation of competency,before there is a trip to a live fire range.

Try this on:
https://youtu.be/mrkp025iKr0?t=4407

I think bringing in a ballistic calulator is a classic case of "too much [data], too soon.

You mispelled "calculator" OK. You think that. I don't. FWIW, I gave a brother a copy of Sierra ballistic software on a floppy disc.He has a good mind.He knows how to use tools. He just bought his first rifle. Decided he wanted to learn to shoot. It was an AR-10 T with a Badger barrel and a Leupold 10X M-1 Mil-Dot,just like the ones the US snipers used.He learned pretty well.He shoots with the long range guys out past 1000 yds and does darn well.And he has taught others who shoot well in long range matches in several states.
Point: A new shooter can learn a ton about "The Rifle" messing about in ballistic software.

Some softwares show trajectory graphics,and allow one trajectory to be overlaid over another.

Different folks respond to different methods of learning.

I did not pick up on the OP being Female. I don't care. It makes no difference and is no cause for limitation. Surely you are not suggesting "dumbing down" the training?

The OP has a trainer. The trainer has a plan. The trainer may have a different plan than you would have. Thats fine. But you are not going to be the trainer and you do the OP a dis service to undermine her trainer unless he is doing harm.
Why not leave the student excited to explore ballistics,rather than saying "Thats useless"! Its not,by the way. Its just that there are people who limit other people for some reason.(If we let them)

So the OP asked about ballistic programs.She asked. I did not tell her her trainer was off. He (or she) might be superb. I don't know David Tubbs,but David Tubbs might start a student with a ballistic calculator. It would make sense to me.
I don't know,and neither do you.
I told her where there was an accessable,free software .

Why would you want to limit anyone eager or curious to learn? Better to keep your limitations to yourself.

OP, you might want to research Julie Golob. She rather enjoys teaching people to shoot like a Girl. {She's only a World Champion Shooter for Smith and Wesson)

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HiBC

And the WW2 rifle Marksmanship training films focus on flight of the bullet,trajectory,wind,sight adjustment,etc ...a foundation of competency,before there is a trip to a live fire range.

Try this on:
https://youtu.be/mrkp025iKr0?t=4407

I don't know what they taught in WW2. My father and all my uncles served in WW2, but they're all gone so I can't ask them. I served during the Vietnam dustup. I enlisted in 1966, so in Basic Training I qualified on the M14. We were taught how to achieve a battle sight zero without being given any explanation of further sight adjustment. In fact, we were told that once our rifles were zeroed we were NOT to touch the sights, under any circumstances. That was adequate for hitting a man-size silhouette from 200 meters out to 600 meters and that's all that mattered. We were being trained as grunts, not snipers.

Originally Posted by HiBC

You mispelled "calculator" OK. You think that. I don't. FWIW, I gave a brother a copy of Sierra ballistic software on a floppy disc.He has a good mind.He knows how to use tools. He just bought his first rifle. Decided he wanted to learn to shoot. It was an AR-10 T with a Badger barrel and a Leupold 10X M-1 Mil-Dot,just like the ones the US snipers used.He learned pretty well.He shoots with the long range guys out past 1000 yds and does darn well.And he has taught others who shoot well in long range matches in several states.

That's all well and good, but was your brother a "newbie" when he bought that rifle? I think most would agree that an AR-10 T with a Badger barrel and a Leupold 10X M-1 Mil-Dot,just like the ones the US snipers used is not exactly a newbie rifle. You have to be able to shoot at 25 or 50 meters with open sights before you can realistically even start thinking about shooting at 1000 meters.

Aside from which, the OP didn't say she's shooting a rifle.

Originally Posted by HiBC

Point: A new shooter can learn a ton about "The Rifle" messing about in ballistic software.

Some softwares show trajectory graphics,and allow one trajectory to be overlaid over another.

Yes -- you can learn a lot about theory -- and none of that will make you a better shooter at 25 or 50 meters. You have to learn to walk before you can learn to run.

Originally Posted by HiBC

Surely you are not suggesting "dumbing down" the training?

Yes, I may very well be. If the instructor is bringing in advanced ballistics before the self-described "newbie" can even shoot, I maintain that he (or she) is treading into "information overload" territory.

Originally Posted by HiBC

Why not leave the student excited to explore ballistics,rather than saying "Thats useless"! Its not,by the way. Its just that there are people who limit other people for some reason.(If we let them)

She didn't say she was excited. It sounded to me more like she was (and probably is) still confused. I'm not at all interested in limiting anyone, but I am also not in favor of overloading beginners with advanced stuff that is useless to them at the early stages of learning to shoot.

Originally Posted by HiBC

So the OP asked about ballistic programs.She asked. I did not tell her her trainer was off. He (or she) might be superb. I don't know David Tubbs,but David Tubbs might start a student with a ballistic calculator.

He might, but I doubt that he would.

Originally Posted by HiBC

Why would you want to limit anyone eager or curious to learn?

I don't, and I never said that I do.

Originally Posted by HiBC

OP, you might want to research Julie Golob. She rather enjoys teaching people to shoot like a Girl. {She's only a World Champion Shooter for Smith and Wesson)

Thank you, Captain Obvious. I already know who Julie Golob is. I've met her.

[HJ857]

The simple answer, for now, are the apps that can be used on a smartphone. Strelok is good, but more complex, Hornady's is free and works well. If you use an iPhone then iSnipe is also a very good choice.

Just pick one and stick with it until your next session. It will become clearer over time, it's not likely to make a lot of sense at this moment, so just trust the process and have patience.

[FireForged]

Yes, I may very well be. If the instructor is bringing in advanced ballistics before the self-described "newbie" can even shoot, I maintain that he (or she) is treading into "information overload" territory.

I was thinking the same thing

I wont say that its wrong or anything but I am trying to imagine why a ballistics calculator would be something a noob needs to bring to basic firearms class.

Someone please describe this "class".

[HiBC]

There are a lot of assumptions being made about this class.

The OP did not say.

Yesterday on a shooting range my instructor asked me to bring a ballistic calculator with me

It might be wrong to assume this is an "OK,you bought a new gun. This is how you be safe. This is where you put bullets in. This is a picture of a bad guy at 7 yards. Shoot it. Now you are trained"

It just might be that she got a really good instructor. I think we ought not undermine him.
As a matter of fact,to me the sign points to this instructor being a far better instructor than any of his critics could hope to be.
He is starting with ground school. Despite what someone may have experienced in the M-14 era GI Marksmanship,the link to the training film I posted shows WW2 M1 Rifle training. Maybe that worked better.

The instructor starts the class with the question "When do we get to shoot"

The answer was "When you are ready" Then he taught basic trajectory,sight adjustments,MOA and range, elevation adjustments,wind,estimating wind and appropriate sight adjustments.

All that was basic knowledge for recruits. All of it is a foundation for competence . All of it occurred in "Ground school" before going to a range.
All of it helps avoid stupid wrong BS that can be gathered in any number of places.

And for the "Ground school" a FREE ballistic software is a fantastic tool for teaching all the GI instructor was teaching and a lot more.

I'd bet she has a superb instructor and you eople secod guessing and undermining him are doing the OP a grave disservice.

Sandrabsh,If I may make a suggestion, How about if you simply take this thread to your instructor. Let him read the whole thing Give him a chance to talk his face to your face.
See how that goes. Then decide if you want to listen to the "experts" .

I'd say have confidence in your instructor.

[Aguila Blanca]

FWIW, the OP has not been back on the forum since she posted her question.

[HiBC]

Hopefully she put faith in her instructor .

[44 AMP]

Yesterday on a shooting range my instructor asked me to bring a ballistic calculator with me...

I'd say the thing to do in that case is to ask the instructor specifically what is meant. Without knowing what they meant, we're just guessing...

[sandrabsh]

Thank you everyone for such good advices
turned out that he meant something different

I plan to use the Hornady ballistic calculator. It can be downloaded free on your smartphone.https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...alculators/#!/

Personally, I have not used them yet because I am still conducting test loads at the range and then determining my ideal MV with the chronograph before using it.

Here is a website for reviews comparing ballistic calculators. But I think a quick search on long-range hunting or sniper hide would have good reviews too on which to choose.

https://www.range365.com/10-best-bal...lculator-apps/

I hope this helps

thanks a lot mate
my best guess was to google something and bring on range whatever I could find
I even find some old ballistic ruler ( with lots of measurements and stuff ) at Craigslist
Turned out he meant the https://hitxapp.com
this thing never come up on the search results so there was no chance I could have guessed myself
even more, after the whole day at range and even with the help of instructor I couldn't understand even the basics of handling this thing.
Next time he sad that I could bring whatever I find better with me so I will check out your app as well.
Cheers

[FireForged]

Sandra, what are you shooting? A rifle I assume.

What ranges are you shooting? 100-300-1000 yards? or what?

I am still trying to figure out why you are messing around with a ballistics calculator.

[Aguila Blanca]

Welcome back. I was beginning to fear that we had scared you off.

Originally Posted by sandrabsh

Next time he sad that I could bring whatever I find better with me so I will check out your app as well.

The problem is that they all do pretty much the same thing, so if this one is too much for you at this stage in your shooting education, any other app will probably also be too much for you. This is why I posted above that I feared your instructor was feeding you too much, too soon.

Not to replace your instructor but perhaps to supplement him/her, there are some exceptionally well-qualified long-range rifle shooters on this site (not me, I never shoot more than a couple or three hundred yards because we just don't have ranges around here that go that far. I think the longest in the state is -- or was, it may have shut down -- 300 yards, and most are 100 yards) who will probably be very happy to help answer any questions you may have.

It would help us to help you if you would explain what you are shooting, at what distance, what you have for a scope (if you're using a scope), and what your experience level really is. In your opening post you described yourself as a "newbie," but that apparently means different things to different people because I don't think a true newbie should be messing around with ballistic calculators, and others in this discussion disagreed with me (rather strongly).

[Double K]

The newer generations love these technologies, it keeps them interested and they shoot amazingly well when using it.
I'm in my 50's and far from being a Luddite but I like the shooting sports to get away from my phone and computers.
You can't use technology to learn the mental game of winning competitions btw.

[gbclarkson]

If you really want to be a smart ass, just count your shots.