shots stringing

axis223 · July 10, 2016, 08:16 AM

hey guys.

i shot 3 groups of 23.3gr benchmark, cci400,Lc brass, 55gr v max seated to 2.235 and each group looks like this.

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127537

now when i shoot 24gr h335, same brass, cci450 primers, same bullet seat, etc. i get stringers. i shot 5 groups of 3 last night because bullets ran low and each group would string and im aiming at the same point each time. i even had someone else shoot the rifle and it did the same thing. im at a loss.

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127537

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127538

any ideas.

brasscollector · July 10, 2016, 11:22 AM

#1 If those are 100 yd groups then none of them are horrid. I would agree that the first pictured group does look to be the best. IMO you didn't shoot enough rounds in the last two groups to truly tell.

Reloading is going to consume time and materials. I have almost never stumbled across an excellent load by randomly picking components and loading cases. Some powder/primer/bullet/rifle combinations are going to produce excellent results in nearly any configuration. I tend to think that way with my 308 using 150gr bullets and imr4064. Other rifles of mine have needed much more coaxing in order to find a suitable combination, but it gets done regardless.
What I am getting at is perhaps 24grs of H335 isn't the sweet spot, Might want to try some at 23.5gr and some at 24.5gr and see if things improve. Might be that H335 and CCI450 primers aren't going to produce the results you're looking for in your rifle. I start at the bottom and work my way up in 1.5% increments trying to isolate accuracy nodes. Once I find a node I will adjust my seating depth and see if I can fine-tune it any. Many times the combinations do not make it to the fine-tuning part before experimentation ceases.

axis223 · July 10, 2016, 12:10 PM

I worked up from hornady minimum which I think is 20.8 to hornady book max and went up .03gr for each 5 pack but started running low on bullets the other day so had to load 23gr-23.3, 23.6. 24gr in 3 packs and shot them last night. the 24gr was the best out of all. my concern is why they shoot touching but in a perfect line. some say for a savage axis to be happy with the 3 in a row but imo I can get better results.

Longshot4 · July 10, 2016, 12:24 PM

Not bad for the rifle you are using.

brasscollector · July 10, 2016, 12:49 PM

If you think you were feeling good enough to shoot better than the results show then I would check to make sure the scope rings/bases are tight and that the action/receiver screws haven't come loose. If you don't find anything there then I would conclude that benchmark and CCI400 primers were a better combination in your rifle. I've had it happen in my 30-06 and 243 where one powder would produce 4-5" pattern @ 100 yds and simply changing to a more appropriate powder produced 1MOA or better with the same bullets. In your situation you have two appropriate powders and one is showing slightly better results. Just to experiment I would swap the CCI450s for some CCI400s in the H335 load and see if that changes anything.

T. O'Heir · July 10, 2016, 12:51 PM

That's not stringing. Stringing will have the holes in a vertical group that's spread out more. Those are the wee groups you've been after. Nice when it happens with two different powders.

**Unclenick** · July 10, 2016, 01:32 PM

Stringing just means making a straight line. It can happen horizontally or vertically. When it is up and down it is called vertical stringing to distinguish it from either horizontal or diagonal stringing (as happens in a variable side wind due to the bullet corrections into the air stream changing its small amount of lift).

Looking at the two groups that are strung out, I notice one is horizontal and one is diagonal. If you combine them into a single six-shot group, the group gets rounder. So the idea the 3-shot samples are too small to tell the tale would seem to be born out. When you get some more bullets, try 10-shot groups or overlaying two groups of 5 to see the combined group. That will give you more feel for what is happening.

axis223 · July 10, 2016, 01:38 PM

I'm assuming that the stock was good as I shot the benchmark group and 2 days later h335. I will swap out the primers. the reasoning for using mag primers was when it gets cold out. I did this on a recommendation from a veteran 223 loader.

I'm also thinking of scrapping the plastic stock and putting a boyds on it to see if it will help.

My concern was something was wrong with h335 and I wanted to use it cause its cheaper than benchmark.

part of me says save the $150 for powder and buy a good stock and see what works best than.

g.willikers · July 10, 2016, 01:48 PM

The distance between the high and low shots aren't much different in the two photos.
No much apparent stringing as the definition of stringing goes.
Unless you're shooting at gnats, don't sweat it.

849ACSO · July 10, 2016, 01:53 PM

I have a Savage Axis .223. My .5" load at 100 yard is LC cases, WSRP, 24.0gr Benchmark, Sierra #1390 55gr HPBT GameKing, COL at 2.20.

I don't recall the speed that I once Chronographed them at off the top of my head, but with consistent groups at a half inch, I don't really care.

Anyway, Benchmark has been a great powder for my axis, as well as my Marlin 1895GG using 405gr LRNFP.

Bye the way, there's nothing wrong with those groups from a $300 box gun. That's why I started reloading. I want to wring every thing out of my guns that I can, regardless of their cost, but it's pretty cool when your $300 gun can hang with your buddy's $1000 gun.............

brasscollector · July 10, 2016, 03:20 PM

Quote:

the reasoning for using mag primers was when it gets cold out.

Not sure where you're at but cold is going to be more objective than subjective here. Adjusting for the cold for a rifle load for the most part is going to be below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

July 10, 2016, 11:22 AM	#2
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	#1 If those are 100 yd groups then none of them are horrid. I would agree that the first pictured group does look to be the best. IMO you didn't shoot enough rounds in the last two groups to truly tell. Reloading is going to consume time and materials. I have almost never stumbled across an excellent load by randomly picking components and loading cases. Some powder/primer/bullet/rifle combinations are going to produce excellent results in nearly any configuration. I tend to think that way with my 308 using 150gr bullets and imr4064. Other rifles of mine have needed much more coaxing in order to find a suitable combination, but it gets done regardless. What I am getting at is perhaps 24grs of H335 isn't the sweet spot, Might want to try some at 23.5gr and some at 24.5gr and see if things improve. Might be that H335 and CCI450 primers aren't going to produce the results you're looking for in your rifle. I start at the bottom and work my way up in 1.5% increments trying to isolate accuracy nodes. Once I find a node I will adjust my seating depth and see if I can fine-tune it any. Many times the combinations do not make it to the fine-tuning part before experimentation ceases. __________________ He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. -Charlie Daniels

July 10, 2016, 12:49 PM	#5
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	If you think you were feeling good enough to shoot better than the results show then I would check to make sure the scope rings/bases are tight and that the action/receiver screws haven't come loose. If you don't find anything there then I would conclude that benchmark and CCI400 primers were a better combination in your rifle. I've had it happen in my 30-06 and 243 where one powder would produce 4-5" pattern @ 100 yds and simply changing to a more appropriate powder produced 1MOA or better with the same bullets. In your situation you have two appropriate powders and one is showing slightly better results. Just to experiment I would swap the CCI450s for some CCI400s in the H335 load and see if that changes anything. __________________ He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. -Charlie Daniels

July 10, 2016, 12:51 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	That's not stringing. Stringing will have the holes in a vertical group that's spread out more. Those are the wee groups you've been after. Nice when it happens with two different powders. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 10, 2016, 01:32 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Stringing just means making a straight line. It can happen horizontally or vertically. When it is up and down it is called vertical stringing to distinguish it from either horizontal or diagonal stringing (as happens in a variable side wind due to the bullet corrections into the air stream changing its small amount of lift). Looking at the two groups that are strung out, I notice one is horizontal and one is diagonal. If you combine them into a single six-shot group, the group gets rounder. So the idea the 3-shot samples are too small to tell the tale would seem to be born out. When you get some more bullets, try 10-shot groups or overlaying two groups of 5 to see the combined group. That will give you more feel for what is happening. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 10, 2016, 01:48 PM	#9
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The distance between the high and low shots aren't much different in the two photos. No much apparent stringing as the definition of stringing goes. Unless you're shooting at gnats, don't sweat it. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 10, 2016, 08:16 AM	#1
axis223 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2016 Posts: 178	shots stringing hey guys. i shot 3 groups of 23.3gr benchmark, cci400,Lc brass, 55gr v max seated to 2.235 and each group looks like this. http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127537 now when i shoot 24gr h335, same brass, cci450 primers, same bullet seat, etc. i get stringers. i shot 5 groups of 3 last night because bullets ran low and each group would string and im aiming at the same point each time. i even had someone else shoot the rifle and it did the same thing. im at a loss. http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127537 http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/...&1468156127538 any ideas.

July 10, 2016, 12:10 PM	#3
axis223 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2016 Posts: 178	I worked up from hornady minimum which I think is 20.8 to hornady book max and went up .03gr for each 5 pack but started running low on bullets the other day so had to load 23gr-23.3, 23.6. 24gr in 3 packs and shot them last night. the 24gr was the best out of all. my concern is why they shoot touching but in a perfect line. some say for a savage axis to be happy with the 3 in a row but imo I can get better results.

July 10, 2016, 12:24 PM	#4
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	Not bad for the rifle you are using.

July 10, 2016, 01:38 PM	#8
axis223 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2016 Posts: 178	I'm assuming that the stock was good as I shot the benchmark group and 2 days later h335. I will swap out the primers. the reasoning for using mag primers was when it gets cold out. I did this on a recommendation from a veteran 223 loader. I'm also thinking of scrapping the plastic stock and putting a boyds on it to see if it will help. My concern was something was wrong with h335 and I wanted to use it cause its cheaper than benchmark. part of me says save the $150 for powder and buy a good stock and see what works best than.

July 10, 2016, 01:53 PM	#10
849ACSO Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2014 Location: Somewhere in the middle Posts: 629	I have a Savage Axis .223. My .5" load at 100 yard is LC cases, WSRP, 24.0gr Benchmark, Sierra #1390 55gr HPBT GameKing, COL at 2.20. I don't recall the speed that I once Chronographed them at off the top of my head, but with consistent groups at a half inch, I don't really care. Anyway, Benchmark has been a great powder for my axis, as well as my Marlin 1895GG using 405gr LRNFP. Bye the way, there's nothing wrong with those groups from a $300 box gun. That's why I started reloading. I want to wring every thing out of my guns that I can, regardless of their cost, but it's pretty cool when your $300 gun can hang with your buddy's $1000 gun............. __________________ "The day you stop learning SHOULD directly coincide with the day you stop breathing."