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View Poll Results: What less lethal weapons do you carry?
Baton/Club 1 2.38%
Kubaton/Striking Tool 4 9.52%
Flashlight W/Assault Bezel 7 16.67%
Stun Gun 0 0%
Taser 1 2.38%
Pepper Spray 12 28.57%
Other 6 14.29%
I do not carry any less than lethal weapons 20 47.62%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 21, 2017, 07:18 PM   #26
Bill DeShivs
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Pepper spray. Stream type. Fox Labs or Freeze +P.

Spray face, then spray crotch. Tell the cops to look for the screaming snotty guy with no pants and red balls.
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Old August 22, 2017, 08:31 AM   #27
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Glad I finished my coffee before reading that or it'd be all over my iPhone....... Thanks for today's laugh Bill!
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Old August 22, 2017, 01:05 PM   #28
Bill DeShivs
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It works on almost all people. The face is usually the most sensitive and readily targeted. If the face shot doesn't work, in a minute or so the pants will come off once they are soaked through.
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Old August 22, 2017, 07:44 PM   #29
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omg I thought you was joking at first.. Hilarious.
Thanks for the tip.
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Old August 23, 2017, 05:53 PM   #30
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I have used OC/pepper spray and variants on at least 70 documented occasions on violent and uncooperative people over a 10 year span of time. Below is my general consensus regarding their use.

The majority of the people sprayed with at least a 2 second burst to the face resulted in significant secession in active resistance/violence. A very small number were hyper reactive to the spray and needed immediate medical attention. A very small number of people ( mostly female) had little to NO reaction to the spray. Narcotics and Alcohol influence does seem to diminish the effects. Generally speaking, it worked well enough to affect compliance.

Out of 70 applications, I suffered cross contamination about 5 or 6 times due to physical contact, wind , other issues and error.

Style of Spray was the 2 and 4oz high pressure cans with flip top safety ( ballistic stream and foam) all less than 1million SHU

Personally I have faith in its use. My main concern would be the quality of canister. Cheap low pressure novelty items are pure garbage in my estimation but most 2oz and 4oz high pressure cans with a concave bottom are good. My preference is ballistic stream, then foam follow last by conical and fog.
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Old August 23, 2017, 09:15 PM   #31
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I agree that comment that not everything warrants pulling a gun. If someone starts approaching in a somewhat aggressive manner, but has not yet shown they are armed, I think having a less than lethal weapon is justified. As mentioned, Fox Labs puts out some good stuff and can greatly impair someone's ability/will to continue the aggression. At a minimum, it is hard to fight when you can barely see. A good thing about pepper sprays is that you can still use it at a distance.

Unless you are well trained in striking tools or even edged weapons, I don't advise getting that close to an attacker. You may be severely underestimating their capabilities. If your gun comes loose in a struggle, it could end very badly.
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Old August 24, 2017, 10:05 AM   #32
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In a lot of situations, I have Pepper Spray on me, usually the smaller swivel types. And I've used it! All of these rambo types that say "someone punches me, I kill them" really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Talk about a total and complete disregard for human life.

Anyway, I was at a birthday party with my kid. There was me (dad) and a bunch of moms with their kids. An older kinda scrubby guy shows up to the birthday party, starts talking to the kids. I asked the mom of the birthday boy "do you know this guy?" She didn't... I got a piece of cake, gave it to him and said "here's a piece of cake, why don't you take it to go, please." He took the cake and left. Well when we were leaving the party I saw the guy in the parking lot approaching one of the kids and ask to touch her hair. He reached out and touched her hair. I about lost it! Ran up, shoved him, yelled at him, already had my pepper stray out and let him have it. I was carrying, I could have shot him, but the situation did NOT call for that. It called for a less than lethal but serious deterrent. Cops came, arrested the guy (NOT the first time he'd done this) and now he's in prison. I hope he gets the help he needs.
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Old August 24, 2017, 07:12 PM   #33
stephen426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpseraph
In a lot of situations, I have Pepper Spray on me, usually the smaller swivel types. And I've used it! All of these rambo types that say "someone punches me, I kill them" really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Talk about a total and complete disregard for human life.

Anyway, I was at a birthday party with my kid. There was me (dad) and a bunch of moms with their kids. An older kinda scrubby guy shows up to the birthday party, starts talking to the kids. I asked the mom of the birthday boy "do you know this guy?" She didn't... I got a piece of cake, gave it to him and said "here's a piece of cake, why don't you take it to go, please." He took the cake and left. Well when we were leaving the party I saw the guy in the parking lot approaching one of the kids and ask to touch her hair. He reached out and touched her hair. I about lost it! Ran up, shoved him, yelled at him, already had my pepper stray out and let him have it. I was carrying, I could have shot him, but the situation did NOT call for that. It called for a less than lethal but serious deterrent. Cops came, arrested the guy (NOT the first time he'd done this) and now he's in prison. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Exactly what he said.
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Old August 24, 2017, 08:19 PM   #34
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Thanks Fireforge, I think 70 uses is quite a sampling, Im sold.

Im gonna pick up a can of 1.5oz fox labs 5.3, flip top, stream.
Apparently they changed the formula this year due to some sort of regulations, I hope the new formula is just as good apparently the old equivalent was 2oz cans.. not sure how that happens.. but what ever.

A shop im planing on placing a order with very soon as it for a great price.. Im just waiting on some oos items to come in before I place a order to save shipping.

Now I just gotta find me a decent belt pouch, but all the ones I found was either molle or setup for 2 - 2 1/4 duty belts, My belt is only 1.5, May have to just get one and modify it a bit.
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Old August 25, 2017, 01:35 AM   #35
stephen426
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@ JoeSixpack,

I suggest you get something that is convenient enough to carry all the time. Fox Labs has smaller versions that should be easy to pocket carry or clip onto a belt loop. If something is too big or too bulky to carry, you won't carry it. Hope this helps. https://shop.foxlabs.com/collections...l-pocket-units
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Old August 25, 2017, 01:45 AM   #36
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From what I've seen the 1/2 oz cans that you see on key chains and stuff are really only good for one or two quick squirts.

Even the 2oz can's are only good for about 3 seconds of continuous spray.

I don't have any more pocket space so what ever I get will have to go on the belt, the 2oz seemed like a good compromise between the 1/2oz and 4oz can's

Another thing to consider is after doing some research the flip tops are highly recommended, because the swivel tabs that are popular on smaller units are hard to index (get nossle pointed toward attacker).
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Old August 25, 2017, 09:28 AM   #37
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@ JoeSixpack,

Well, the good thing is that it doesn't cost much so you can switch if you decide the larger one is too much to carry. The 2 oz. is about 1.5" in diameter and around 4" tall. https://shop.foxlabs.com/collections...eam-pattern-mg The website says it is good for 16-18 half second bursts. The 15 gram unit is good for 10-12 half second bursts. If you can carry the larger one, I guess it is always better to have more than you need than to need more than you have.
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Old August 25, 2017, 09:44 AM   #38
JoeSixpack
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Ya I think the spray producers lie about how long it lasts & distance.. Everyone of them I looked at did not live up to the hype on youtube.

There was a guy who tested the 2oz fox but only got 7 decent 1/2 second squirts.. he got a few more after that but they was pretty weak.. nothing you'd wanna depend on.

And they pretty much all come up short on distance, Only one I seen tested that actually went as far as It claimed was the mace brand pepper gun aprox 20 feet.. most of the sprays was 8-12ft for steam.

Watch some of the youtube videos of the tests, not the ones where they spray someone but where they shoot at paper plates, or trees or something.. they don't last long.
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Old August 25, 2017, 11:21 AM   #39
roashooter
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Quote:
Im gonna pick up a can of 1.5oz fox labs 5.3, flip top, stream.
Apparently they changed the formula this year due to some sort of regulations, I hope the new formula is just as good apparently the old equivalent was 2oz cans.. not sure how that happens.. but what ever.

 


will ya be giving a range report before too long?
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Old August 25, 2017, 12:35 PM   #40
JoeSixpack
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Probably no need to, There is actually quite a collection of youtube videos of both it's testing and it's use on live subjects already.

Lambo's has it for less then 12 bucks a can, Im just waiting on some other things to come in stock before I place a order to save on the shipping.. So I don't have a definite ETA as to when I'll have it anyway.
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Old August 25, 2017, 01:38 PM   #41
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there is a world of difference between watching something on video....than real world experience ....

ya can watcha video about riding a unicycle and juggling.....does not mean its easy to do

not one of us will carry a firearm WITHOUT range time...to PROVE its reliability...consistency....
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Old August 25, 2017, 01:49 PM   #42
stephen426
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roashooter,

Do you shoot real live people so you can test whether or not the ammo performs as manufacturers claim? People are not made of ballistic gelatin you know. You gotta be safe.

Do you crash you car to make sure the airbags really work? What about the crumple zones?



I'm not picking on you. There are some departments that require officers to get tazed and pepper spayed so they know what it feels like. Officers carry guns and batons as well. Should be be shot and beaten too?
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Old August 25, 2017, 04:37 PM   #43
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I'll mention one thing about OC. Change it out periodically. I had some Fox sprays and after a couple of years, decided to test them against a tree (dangerous tree) - no pressure left in them.
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Old October 8, 2017, 08:58 PM   #44
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Knife.

Not non-lethal, but less lethal than my firearm.
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Old October 8, 2017, 09:20 PM   #45
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Flashlight and "kubotan"....in actuality, a folding knife with an oversized grip and strong liners that allow me to use it as a kubotan while the blade is folded. I may add OC spray to the mix for places where I can't carry my pistol.
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Old October 10, 2017, 03:20 PM   #46
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I have not lived a sheltered life, my wife was helping one of our granddaughters with her home work, the 10 year old granddaughter was asking about help with 'events'; she mentioned one event and for some reason my wife said "your grandpa was there". I never know where her comments come from my granddaughter said "he could have been killed". And then there are my wife's responses (same thing, I never know where her responses come from) but she added "he came closer to getting killed in Houston, and then there was San Antonio and Galveston.

I know the rules, call 911, tell someone to get a lawyer, instruct them to get a restraining order or a divorce etc. but when someone says "help me please" they buy into my program lock, stock and barrel. Anyhow, this lady said "get me out of here, please" and, I said OK, that was the about the time all hell broke loose.

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Old October 10, 2017, 04:59 PM   #47
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I would remember an important factor when considering any of these: reach. In the case of a bad situation that was unavoidable, ask "how could I hit the BG before he can hit me". If he has only fists, any item (depending on arm length and taking skill/training out of the equation) would out reach his. If he has a knife, a baton/stick/staff would out reach that. Kind of like the story where the 13yr old kid broke the arm of a knife wielding assailant with a stick from earlier in this thread. That's why I would rule out up-close-and-personal items like those non-shooting tasers. However, on the other end of the spectrum, a 20-30 year old man walking around with a large walking stick may get you strange looks unless hiking. Though it would definitely outreach any other non-firing items.
I feel like you answered your own question from the start though, since your state has restrictions on things like batons. I would only use the good pepper spray that is really potent and can shoot a fairly accurate stream at a good distance. My wife had one of those key chain pepper sprays. We knew it was crap from the start, but she tested it (shooting the fence in the backyard, not on me haha) and it shot a 1 second stream of maybe 3 feet and then quickly petered off to a drip. Do not buy cheap/crappy pepper sprays!
Also mentioned in the thread was the use of a small yet super bright flashlight for blinding purposes. I completely agree and do carry one of these around...as well as my pistol. But even if I didn't carry a pistol, I think one of those flashlights would be beneficial to have on you.
EDIT: Post got me curious, so did some Googling. An odd-ball choice is a small and sturdy chain. Below is the link for one from Amazon. Seems like a good idea, but would need some training. Harder to swing a chain/rope/whip than a stick.
https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-outdo...VY5BQCXWMJ7VZT

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Old October 28, 2017, 06:50 PM   #48
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I do martial arts. Does that count? I mean, aside from carrying, which you can't do everywhere.. Martial arts I bring with me everywhere.
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Old October 29, 2017, 12:03 PM   #49
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Martial arts can be considered a deadly weapon and the use of any form of technique that can break bones or cause death is considered lethal force.

Having a "less than lethal" alternative is a good idea however, when you choose to use it and are wrong you are in trouble. If you are not in fear of life or limb you can walk away.
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