M1 Carbine Problem

[Mosin-Marauder]

As some of you may know my grandfather owns a Universal M1 Carbine and its seen military use. I cleaned it real well and oiled it for him a while back (during the summer) and I noticed today the crown is completely nonexistant. He never could get it to shoot to well, I don't believe. I'd like to get it back to shooting well, from what I see, the muzzle and maybe a half an inch down (3/4" at the most, will confirm in near future) is eroded. However the lands and grooves are shiny and well defined past that point. The way I see it is I have two options, 1) professional counterbore by a gunsmith 2) proffesional rebarrel by a gunsmith. Which would I be better off doing? The rebarrel would probably be best option but will be the most expensive. $150 for Sarco New production barrels, with work maybe $250 for rebarreling? Maybe $100 for counterbore? What's my best plan of action to get this rifle shooting again? Any help you can provide is appreciated. This would be a gift to my grandfather from me (and my dad).

Thanks,

-Mo.

[Gunfixr]

Easiest and probably cheapest is to backbore the muzzle to get to good rifling. Also preserves the originality of the rifle.
Next in difficulty and expense is to move the front sight back and shorten the barrel sufficiently to get good rifling.
Third is to simply re-barrel the rifle.

[4V50 Gary]

What Gunfixr suggested. Backbore a bit and it should shoot fine.

[Mosin-Marauder]

Okay, I'll call around some gun smiths and see how much a good counterbore would be. If the muzzle is eroded more than an inch it probably wouldn't do much good. I doubt it would be that much, but I need to double check.

[Snyper]

Universal carbines aren't "MILSPEC" so it's doubtful it was ever issued

[4V50 Gary]

Counter bore would remove any distorted rifling.

When the AMU was testing the affect of the flash suppressor on M-14, they found that uneven gas pressure on the base of the bullet gave the bullet a slightly offset oscillation as it flew downrange. The greater the distance, the more the effect. A bad crown does the same thing.

By recrowning and counter boring it, you're negating the effect of the bad crown and worn rifling.

Finally, snyper is right. Universal Carbines are not GI and have never been used by the US Armed Forces. They were produced for the civilian market.

[Mosin-Marauder]

Underwood, not universal. I was looking at M1's earlier and that must have got in my head. It's a Underwood receiver with a Winchester Recoil Plate. My bad. And it was issued.

[James K]

Might I suggest shooting it first before spending a lot of money on it? While muzzle wear or rust (it is not erosion, which does not occur at the muzzle) can interfere with accuracy, the actual problem often cannot be determined without firing the gun on the range.

Jim

[Mosin-Marauder]

My Mosin outshot it using Yugoslavian Machine Gun Heavy Ball ammo at 100 yards. This was when I first started shooting.

[James K]

What does that translate to in terms of group inches at 100 yards?

Jim

[Snyper]

Underwood, not universal

That makes all the difference

I'd only test the Carbine at 50 yds, since it was really designed to replace a handgun anyway

[Mosin-Marauder]

No idea on inches, but the Yugoslavian Heavy Ball is awful ammunition. I will try and get him to come over and let me shoot it sometime. My only range at the current is a 50 yard range.

[RaySendero]

Mosin-Marauder wrote:

As some of you may know my grandfather owns a Universal M1 Carbine and its seen military use. I cleaned it real well and oiled it for him a while back (during the summer) and I noticed today the crown is completely nonexistant. He never could get it to shoot to well, I don't believe. I'd like to get it back to shooting well, from what I see, the muzzle and maybe a half an inch down (3/4" at the most, will confirm in near future) is eroded. However the lands and grooves are shiny and well defined past that point. .....
Thanks,

-Mo.
__________________

Mo, I read 2 different problems above.

If my memory serves, there should be enough metal between the end of the muzzle and the front sight to do a simple, less expensive re-crown job. I know it won't help the erosion but, there's a chance that by itself could fix a good portion of the accuracy loss you describe. May want to ask your GS about this option and get his opinion/price. Maybe worth the risk to try it!

PS:However, if it doesn't help and afterwards you go the more expensive route this re-crown job $$.$$ will be like throw away.

[Mosin-Marauder]

I may have used "eroded" in the wrong context. The muzzle and maybe a half inch or so at most of the rifling is gone. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Dragonflydf]

There is a reason your mosin out shot it 100yrds, the Mosin is shooting a high power rifle round compared to the 30 carbine, which is not much more than a pistol round, bring it in to the range it was designed for and it would give the mosin a run.

[Mosin-Marauder]

I doubt a Carbine could outshoot my Mosin at 50 yards.

[amd6547]

First and foremost, I would do nothing to this carbine until I knew what I had.
Depending how close to original it is, it could be quite valuable.
A good condition carbine is very much a 150yd gun. At 100yds, my Inland from the CMP will easily do a 15 shot softball sized group, without to much effort.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

The .30 Cal round, power wise, from the M-1 Carbine, is about like shooting a .38 special from your shoulder, as it was not too powerful. I would venture a guess that they're pretty close.

I would look into back boring it to good rifling, since 1/2" is not much to clean up. Check to see what it would cost, at least.

[Mosin-Marauder]

It's sort of a mismatch, as I remember. he stock has some dings and the parkerizing is all there. The recoil plate is a Winchester, Receiver is a Underwood, I think the barrelband is an IBM? The Barrel may be a Winchester, I'm not sure though.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

A lot of M-1's came from the ordnance mixed up from different repairs. It would be kind of rare to find one that had all its original parts, especially parts by the same manufacturer.

[Snyper]

With all that mixing of parts, it has little "collector" value.
No modifications you do to it will make it lose any value

[Blindstitch]

One question I have is sense mosin has been all over the place with his shooting maybe he is best to do a Ron Popeil and set it and forget it. Maybe it's you, the shooter, the ammo, or another number of things that needs to be dealt with first.

I know several guys who can shoot a few rifles great but then they pick up one and you wonder what they're doing because the pattern is anything but.

This is probably the reason why every deer season the local hardware store sells a pallet of lead sleds for zeroing rifles.

[Blindstitch]

If possible take some pictures of the problem in question.

[James K]

When discussing muzzle wear on the M1 carbine and M1/M14 rifle, remember that both were normally cleaned from the muzzle with steel rods. While the army cleaning rods are softer than barrel steel (duh!), continued use over decades will destroy the rifling at the muzzle end. This did not especially concern the U.S. Army since a wealthy nation can afford to rebarrel its rifles. Conterboring was normally done by nations whose budgets were tight.

Jim

[Mosin-Marauder]

To be fair my shooting has improved a good bit lately, and the only time I shot this rifle was when I first got my Mosin. So I might need to re-evaluate it.