smallest handgun that reliably penetration a boar skull or other large animaL?

sbaker10 · January 25, 2014, 08:39 PM

assuming you can make an accurate shot but not get right up to line up a ear hole or base of the skull shot what will reliably penetrate the thick part of a boar or deer skull?

Just kind of curious because Ive read about 40sw bouncing off a deer's head from point blank range, a 44 mag not penetrating a boars head and then read about a 380 right between the eyes dropping them dead.

Anyone have any real world experience?

Snyper · January 25, 2014, 08:42 PM

For hunting, I wouldn't use anythling less powerful than a 357 Mag
For just slaughter, a 22 LR will drop them in their tracks

Whoever "bounced" a 40 off a skull simply missed

Deja vu · January 25, 2014, 08:46 PM

When I was working in the slaughter house I would dispatch large bovines with a 22 short. Drops then dead instantly.

virg · January 25, 2014, 08:47 PM

The smallest I can think of is a .38spl snub loaded with either the Gold Dot 135g + P short barrel load or the 158g FBI load.

jmr40 · January 25, 2014, 10:01 PM

Bullet construction and placement are more important than caliber. For years the worlds record Grizzly was held by a native indian woman in Canada who killed one with a 22 rimfire.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1736370/pg1

Quote:

Whoever "bounced" a 40 off a skull simply missed

Animals like boar and bear have sloping skulls that may at times deflect even the most powerful bullets unless they hit at just the right angle. It is like skipping a stone off water. If the angle is right lots of stuff will deflect.

reynolds357 · January 25, 2014, 10:15 PM

As JMR 40 says, A .40 S&W will bounce off a skull. I have both seen it happen and seen the SWAT training film and photos of when it happened.

A deer was hit by a car and laying in the road kicking. I shot it in the head with a SXT from .40 S@W and it hit and bounced.

A SWAT team in Ga shot a woman in the forehead with a .40 fired from a sub-gun and it bounced off.

Big slow bullets do funny things when they strike hard objects at just the proper angle.

Mobuck · January 25, 2014, 10:16 PM

"When I was working in the slaughter house I would dispatch large bovines with a 22 short. Drops then dead instantly"

My experience is that the animal is only stunned and blood loss from cutting the throat is what actually causes death.

sbaker10 · January 25, 2014, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deja vu

When I was working in the slaughter house I would dispatch large bovines with a 22 short. Drops then dead instantly.

Was it a perfectly aimed shot behind the ear or a shot to the forehead type shot? I know you can kill a bear with a .22 short but I sure wouldn't count on it to do more than annoy it the other 99%

sbaker10 · January 25, 2014, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbaker10

Was it a perfectly aimed shot behind the ear or a shot to the forehead type shot? I know you can kill a bear with a .22 short but I sure wouldn't count on it to do more than annoy it the other 99%

I,m asking more along the lines of a charging pig assuming you actually hit the head or a wounded animal that is not running around but may still be dangerous to get right up next to

Snyper · January 26, 2014, 05:11 AM

Quote:

A deer was hit by a car and laying in the road kicking. I shot it in the head with a SXT from .40 S@W and it hit and bounced.

A SWAT team in Ga shot a woman in the forehead with a .40 fired from a sub-gun and it bounced off.

A good hit would never bounce off
They simply missed and grazed them

The laws of physics won't let it happen

jmr40 · January 26, 2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

The laws of physics won't let it happen

Someone needs to go back to school.

The front of military tanks have been designed with sloping armor since WW-2 in order to deflect shells. It works, and has been working for decades. When a bear or boar is coming directly at you the front of their skull is sloped in the same way. You simply don't aim for the head because there is a very good chance that the bullet could deflect unless you are good enough, or lucky enough, to hit the sinus cavity or an eye socket..

Now if you can get the bear to stop and give you a broadside shot into the side of his head you will probably get the penetration you want. Same reason why it is easier to take out a tank with a shot into the side rather than the front.

buck460XVR · January 26, 2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted bySYNper:

A good hit would never bounce off
They simply missed and grazed them

The laws of physics won't let it happen

Since the OP was talking about this, the odds of a poor shot are much greater than those of a making a good shot.

Quote:

Originally posted bysbaker 10:

I,m asking more along the lines of a charging pig assuming you actually hit the head or a wounded animal that is not running around but may still be dangerous to get right up next to

In the case of the charging pig, I'd tend to go for the largest caliber I could accurately shoot, not the smallest caliber that might work. In the case of any animals that are wounded while hunting and need to be put down. Use your damn primary weapon....sheesh.

kraigwy · January 26, 2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Whoever "bounced" a 40 off a skull simply missed

I bounced a 357 off a buffalos head, I didn't miss. Second shot was 2 in lower and 1 inch to the right, killed it.

I've had to put down a lot of moose with a 357 in my APD days. A shot below the base of the skull, where the brain and spine connect is more effective then a front on skull shot.

HiBC · January 26, 2014, 02:08 PM

I once went to a dump where someone had left the head of a hog neatly sawed off.It was pretty fresh and invited little ballistic experimentation.

I leaned it against a piece of of plywood and fired a wheel from my 44 mag Super Blackhawk into the forehead of the hog.

I am not sure which bullet it was,but I know it was a 240grjacketed expanding bullet.I suspect it was a Remington with the thin scalloped jacket.

It was interesting that there was a pile of bullet fragments on the ground in front of the plywood.Nothing penetrated the plywood.

That is not complaint,the bullet was made to expand.Probably would perform great going through ribs ito a chest cavity.

But for hog stopping it would be a poor choice.

Had I fired a hard cast Keith 240 gr I believe every bullet would have penetrated the plywood and then some.

For your purpose,most expanding jacketed bullets will compromise penetration.

reynolds357 · January 26, 2014, 03:47 PM

Snyper, the deer was not grazed. it was hit and hit good.
I believe your understanding of physics is in error.

mete · January 26, 2014, 04:54 PM

Mobuck is correct. To get good quality meat the animal is only knocked out with the bullet and the animal 'bled out ' .Otherwise you get edible but not palatable meat.

manta49 · January 26, 2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

To get good quality meat the animal is only knocked out with the bullet and the animal 'bled out

How can you shoot an animal to only knock it out. ?

Snyper · January 26, 2014, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Snyper, the deer was not grazed. it was hit and hit good.
I believe your understanding of physics is in error.

You can think that if you like.
I still call it a miss if you don't hit it well enough to penetrate

Willie Lowman · January 26, 2014, 07:14 PM

A miss if it does not hit well to penetrate?

At first it seemed you did not understand physics but now it appears you are mistaking one term for another.

Glancing (adjective)
1 striking someone or something at an angle rather than directly and with full force
2 hit something at an angle and bounce off obliquely

Miss (verb)
1 fail to hit, reach, or come into contact with (something aimed at)
2 pass by without touching

I recall reading a story a TFL member posted about a .30-30 round glancing off the skull of a large sow.

image borrowed from THR

Panfisher · January 27, 2014, 08:53 AM

When butchering critters (have done hogs, sheep, and beef), the angle of the shot make all the difference, I've killed them with .22 LR pistol, .22 WMR, and .45 ACP, all did just fine from a few feet a way shooting at a downward angle, and the bullet placed correctly. None of that applies to a hog in charge mode. I wuld personally choose at a minimum a .357 and 158 gr. bullet, maybe a hard cast bullet, up to .44 Mag or larger PROVIDED you can shoot it well. A well placed 158 gr. bullet from a .357 is many times better than a miss from a .500 S&W.

JERRYS. · January 27, 2014, 09:01 AM

Seecamp .32acp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q80ij77NU68

Snyper · January 27, 2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Miss (verb)
1 fail to hit, reach, or come into contact with (something aimed at)
2 pass by without touching

I consider it a "miss' if your shot placement is so poor the bullet bounces off.

They didn't "come into contact" with anything that would kill the animal, and it was poor shot selection rather than a ballistic failure

kraigwy · January 27, 2014, 10:29 AM

Quote:

How can you shoot an animal to only knock it out. ?

I and another officer were sent to chase a bull moose out of a guy's back yard. It was tearing the crap out of the place.

I climbed on the fence in time to see the other officer searching the yard and saw the moose break out of the hedges and started chasing him. He ran toward the fence throwing a shot over his shoulder toward the moose.

To both our surprise, the bull went down. The other officer walked back to examine the moose and then put his foot on the horn then with a big smile acted like he was blowing the smoke out of his revolver's barrel looked back at me.

At that time the moose came to, jumped up flipping the cop, who bounced once the flew over the fence.

Apparently the "lucky" shot hit the base of the horns stunning the bull, knocking it out.

I was laughing so hard I couldn't have stopped the moose if I had a bazooka.

Yup, you can knock out an animal without killing it.

Art Eatman · January 27, 2014, 11:27 AM

Depending on the angle of impact, most any bullet can glance off a skull.

With a nearly-perpendicular impact, even pipsqueak-cartridge bullets can penetrate a skull.

In general, bigger is better.

So what's to argue about?

mete · January 27, 2014, 04:14 PM

Manta , Lines drawn from the horns to the opposite eye give you an X and you shoot at the intersection of the lines.
Sometimes things happen !

I helped slaughter and butcher a large calf , approaching 600 lbs. I shot the animal in the approved place and it immediately it dropped .I holstered my 9mm drew my knife to slit it's throat .As I approached the animal it suddenly it jumped up and charged me !

Never having had that happen to me I was unprepared and the only thing that saved me was that it was still chained .The owner was of no help as he was laughing too hard .

January 25, 2014, 08:39 PM	#1
sbaker10 Member Join Date: December 10, 2013 Posts: 73	smallest handgun that reliably penetration a boar skull or other large animaL? assuming you can make an accurate shot but not get right up to line up a ear hole or base of the skull shot what will reliably penetrate the thick part of a boar or deer skull? Just kind of curious because Ive read about 40sw bouncing off a deer's head from point blank range, a 44 mag not penetrating a boars head and then read about a 380 right between the eyes dropping them dead. Anyone have any real world experience?

January 25, 2014, 08:42 PM	#2
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	For hunting, I wouldn't use anythling less powerful than a 357 Mag For just slaughter, a 22 LR will drop them in their tracks Whoever "bounced" a 40 off a skull simply missed __________________ One shot, one kill Last edited by Snyper; January 25, 2014 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Eye kint tipe 2 gud

January 25, 2014, 08:46 PM	#3
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	When I was working in the slaughter house I would dispatch large bovines with a 22 short. Drops then dead instantly. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

January 26, 2014, 04:54 PM	#16
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Mobuck is correct. To get good quality meat the animal is only knocked out with the bullet and the animal 'bled out ' .Otherwise you get edible but not palatable meat. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 26, 2014, 07:14 PM	#19
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	A miss if it does not hit well to penetrate? At first it seemed you did not understand physics but now it appears you are mistaking one term for another. Glancing (adjective) 1 striking someone or something at an angle rather than directly and with full force 2 hit something at an angle and bounce off obliquely Miss (verb) 1 fail to hit, reach, or come into contact with (something aimed at) 2 pass by without touching I recall reading a story a TFL member posted about a .30-30 round glancing off the skull of a large sow. image borrowed from THR __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

January 25, 2014, 08:47 PM	#4
virg Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2010 Location: SE KY Posts: 131	The smallest I can think of is a .38spl snub loaded with either the Gold Dot 135g + P short barrel load or the 158g FBI load.

January 25, 2014, 10:15 PM	#6
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	As JMR 40 says, A .40 S&W will bounce off a skull. I have both seen it happen and seen the SWAT training film and photos of when it happened. A deer was hit by a car and laying in the road kicking. I shot it in the head with a SXT from .40 S@W and it hit and bounced. A SWAT team in Ga shot a woman in the forehead with a .40 fired from a sub-gun and it bounced off. Big slow bullets do funny things when they strike hard objects at just the proper angle.

January 25, 2014, 10:16 PM	#7
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"When I was working in the slaughter house I would dispatch large bovines with a 22 short. Drops then dead instantly" My experience is that the animal is only stunned and blood loss from cutting the throat is what actually causes death.

January 26, 2014, 02:08 PM	#14
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I once went to a dump where someone had left the head of a hog neatly sawed off.It was pretty fresh and invited little ballistic experimentation. I leaned it against a piece of of plywood and fired a wheel from my 44 mag Super Blackhawk into the forehead of the hog. I am not sure which bullet it was,but I know it was a 240grjacketed expanding bullet.I suspect it was a Remington with the thin scalloped jacket. It was interesting that there was a pile of bullet fragments on the ground in front of the plywood.Nothing penetrated the plywood. That is not complaint,the bullet was made to expand.Probably would perform great going through ribs ito a chest cavity. But for hog stopping it would be a poor choice. Had I fired a hard cast Keith 240 gr I believe every bullet would have penetrated the plywood and then some. For your purpose,most expanding jacketed bullets will compromise penetration.

January 26, 2014, 03:47 PM	#15
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Snyper, the deer was not grazed. it was hit and hit good. I believe your understanding of physics is in error.

January 27, 2014, 08:53 AM	#20
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	When butchering critters (have done hogs, sheep, and beef), the angle of the shot make all the difference, I've killed them with .22 LR pistol, .22 WMR, and .45 ACP, all did just fine from a few feet a way shooting at a downward angle, and the bullet placed correctly. None of that applies to a hog in charge mode. I wuld personally choose at a minimum a .357 and 158 gr. bullet, maybe a hard cast bullet, up to .44 Mag or larger PROVIDED you can shoot it well. A well placed 158 gr. bullet from a .357 is many times better than a miss from a .500 S&W.

January 27, 2014, 09:01 AM	#21
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	Seecamp .32acp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q80ij77NU68

January 27, 2014, 11:27 AM	#24
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Depending on the angle of impact, most any bullet can glance off a skull. With a nearly-perpendicular impact, even pipsqueak-cartridge bullets can penetrate a skull. In general, bigger is better. So what's to argue about?

January 27, 2014, 04:14 PM	#25
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Manta , Lines drawn from the horns to the opposite eye give you an X and you shoot at the intersection of the lines. Sometimes things happen ! I helped slaughter and butcher a large calf , approaching 600 lbs. I shot the animal in the approved place and it immediately it dropped .I holstered my 9mm drew my knife to slit it's throat .As I approached the animal it suddenly it jumped up and charged me ! Never having had that happen to me I was unprepared and the only thing that saved me was that it was still chained .The owner was of no help as he was laughing too hard . __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !