Legality of short perc. fowler

ebr-lvr · March 16, 2010, 08:26 AM

Hello folks, this is my first thread start so kindly advise me If I'm not doing it correctly.

I have a Navy Arms/Pietta Dbl. bbl. with two sets of bbls. One is very nice and the other is FUBARED 14" up from the muzzle.
My question is may I cut the damaged bbls down to 14" as It's percussion and not be in violation of having an unregistered SBR ? I am thinking that I would be GTG, but would like to hear opinion here before I plug in the chop saw. Thanks in advance, and glad to be here.

Thanks again..question # 2.
Since a damascus barreled pre-1899 ctg. shotgun is an "antique" in legal eyes, would the same hold true for it?

noelf2 · March 16, 2010, 10:56 AM

Since it's a "muzzleloading" percussion shotgun, it's not a firearm. In fact, the Pedersoli Howdah pistol (in 20ga double) has barrel lengths of about 12 inches and is perfectly legal.

Tom2 · March 16, 2010, 03:16 PM

The howdah looks like a ML pistol, is all. If your double gives the appearance of maybe a modern SXS from a distance, you still might have the nuisance of having to explain things alot regardless of the legality. Like maybe wandering around with a "dummy" replica, realistic MG. It might attract attention even though legal. Or attract the know it alls that think it is illegal and you are wrong, etc. PITA?(as in pain in...not bunny huggers)

ebr-lvr · March 16, 2010, 05:02 PM

Thanks folks, I needed a bit of re-assurance is all and you came through in an
excellent fashion.

noelf2 · March 16, 2010, 06:49 PM

Post a pic when you're done so we can turn you in for a reward.

ebr-lvr · March 19, 2010, 04:00 AM

Thanks again..question # 2.
Since a damascus barreled pre-1899 ctg. shotgun is an "antique" in legal eyes, would the same hold true for it?
__________________

noelf2 · March 19, 2010, 02:02 PM

No, you can't do that. Making and attaching a short barrel to a pre-1899 cartridge rifle or shotgun will bring it into federal jurisdiction. It would violate GCA 68 and NFA.

Also, it would be a good idea to read GCA 68 and the NFA. Check state and local laws as well.

noelf2 · March 19, 2010, 02:13 PM

Also, check out this link: http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

I could be wrong about sawing off a muzzleloader replica. Now the legality of the Howdah has me confused

J.A.D. · March 19, 2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Thanks again..question # 2.
Since a damascus barreled pre-1899 ctg. shotgun is an "antique" in legal eyes, would the same hold true for it?

Modifying the pre-1899 antique into an NFA regulated configuration is regulated. Doing it requires the same tax/registration/pre-approval as hacking a shotgun that was made yesterday.

A cartridge SBS that was cut-down (or left the factory) before 1899 may or may not fall under the scope of regulation. The NFA definition of an "antique" is a little more stringent than the GCA definition. When we are dealing with cartridge guns, the NFA requires that the firearm not only have been made before 1JAN1899 to be exempt from regulation, but also that it not be capable of firing centerfire or rimfire fixed ammunition that is readily available through commercial trade (ATF gets to decide what is or isn't readily available. For example, in the past (relating to GCA, but the same principal, they determined that the unique bottleneck 14ga Martini shotgun [not an sbs- the decision was made because of the GCA clause that allows certain firearms made after 1JAN1899 to be given antique status based on the same ammunition basis] round qualified---though of course, after Sportsmans Guide sold bunch of those guns, I believe that OWS or somebody made a run of ammunition for them)). The ATF does maintain a list of select models (and individual weapons) that have been removed from the NFA. Some of those have been removed and are considered antique. Others have been removed from NFA status, but still retain title I regulation as curios and relics.

26USC1845 (NFA definition of antique)

Quote:

(g) Antique firearm
The term "antique firearm" means any firearm not designed or
redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition
with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including
any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of
ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured
before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed
ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is
no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily
available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

ebr-lvr · March 19, 2010, 03:29 PM

Well thanks fellas, good accurate information is much appreciated.

March 16, 2010, 08:26 AM	#1
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	Legality of short perc. fowler (Question # 2 added) Hello folks, this is my first thread start so kindly advise me If I'm not doing it correctly. I have a Navy Arms/Pietta Dbl. bbl. with two sets of bbls. One is very nice and the other is FUBARED 14" up from the muzzle. My question is may I cut the damaged bbls down to 14" as It's percussion and not be in violation of having an unregistered SBR ? I am thinking that I would be GTG, but would like to hear opinion here before I plug in the chop saw. Thanks in advance, and glad to be here. Thanks again..question # 2. Since a damascus barreled pre-1899 ctg. shotgun is an "antique" in legal eyes, would the same hold true for it? __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training" Last edited by ebr-lvr; March 19, 2010 at 03:59 AM. Reason: more/different but related info

March 16, 2010, 10:56 AM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Since it's a "muzzleloading" percussion shotgun, it's not a firearm. In fact, the Pedersoli Howdah pistol (in 20ga double) has barrel lengths of about 12 inches and is perfectly legal. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 16, 2010, 03:16 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	The howdah looks like a ML pistol, is all. If your double gives the appearance of maybe a modern SXS from a distance, you still might have the nuisance of having to explain things alot regardless of the legality. Like maybe wandering around with a "dummy" replica, realistic MG. It might attract attention even though legal. Or attract the know it alls that think it is illegal and you are wrong, etc. PITA?(as in pain in...not bunny huggers) __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 16, 2010, 05:02 PM	#4
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	Many Thanks Thanks folks, I needed a bit of re-assurance is all and you came through in an excellent fashion. __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training"

March 16, 2010, 06:49 PM	#5
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Post a pic when you're done so we can turn you in for a reward. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 19, 2010, 04:00 AM	#6
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	Question @ 2 Thanks again..question # 2. Since a damascus barreled pre-1899 ctg. shotgun is an "antique" in legal eyes, would the same hold true for it? __________________ __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training"

March 19, 2010, 02:02 PM	#7
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	No, you can't do that. Making and attaching a short barrel to a pre-1899 cartridge rifle or shotgun will bring it into federal jurisdiction. It would violate GCA 68 and NFA. Also, it would be a good idea to read GCA 68 and the NFA. Check state and local laws as well. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither. Last edited by noelf2; March 19, 2010 at 02:08 PM.

March 19, 2010, 02:13 PM	#8
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Also, check out this link: http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html I could be wrong about sawing off a muzzleloader replica. Now the legality of the Howdah has me confused __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 19, 2010, 03:29 PM	#10
ebr-lvr Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: missouri hollar Posts: 56	Well thanks fellas, good accurate information is much appreciated. __________________ Col. Jeff Cooper..remembered When a deadly situation presents,One will not "rise to the occasion" but will " default to his highest level of training"