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Old May 15, 2020, 03:39 AM   #1
chrisintexas
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Unruly dog not on leash, owner behaving aggressively

I was walking in a public park just before the virus spread and a big dog without leash was behaving aggressively as I was passing by on the walking path in the park and as I looked apprehensively towards the dog the owner began to make eye contact with me and made aggressive gestures at me! The park has a policy that states dogs cannot be without leash in the park. How should one deal with such situation? Is it legal to use pepper spray on the dog if it attacked me? How should one deal with aggressive, unfriendly owner of the dog?
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Old May 15, 2020, 04:06 AM   #2
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Whether or not it's legal to use pepper spray on an aggressive, unleashed dog is determined by the laws of the state. From your screen name I assume you are in Texas -- look up the Texas statutes on the use of pepper spray for self defense.

Same thing for the dog's owner.
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Old May 15, 2020, 06:59 AM   #3
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https://www.uslawshield.com/can-i-be...-dog-in-texas/

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/...-thing-7182096

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D...SAFETYCODE.pdf

Then again....https://www.fox4news.com/news/armed-...rlington-woman
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Old May 15, 2020, 07:01 AM   #4
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Look up what happened to Harold Fish.
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Old May 15, 2020, 10:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kozak6
Look up what happened to Harold Fish.
The Harold Fish case was in Arizona, not Texas, and therefore irrelevant.
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Old May 15, 2020, 05:45 PM   #6
chrisintexas
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Only asking if use of pepper spray is alright according to the law. Found texas law says that pepper spray bottle size is limited to key chain type small pepper spray bottle and pepper spray should be made specifically only for use on aggressive dogs.
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Old May 15, 2020, 07:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisintexas
Found texas law says that pepper spray bottle size is limited to key chain type small pepper spray bottle and pepper spray should be made specifically only for use on aggressive dogs.
For the benefit of others who may have the same question, please post a link to the relevant statute or statutes.
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Old May 15, 2020, 07:50 PM   #8
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Poession legal
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PE.46.htm Subpara (14)
But it says nothing about use, much less anything specifically against dogs or other entities
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Old May 16, 2020, 01:56 PM   #9
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For the person, Chapter 9 of the TX penal code would be a primary source.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
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Old May 18, 2020, 05:38 PM   #10
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Gotta ask; how did you survive this encounter unscathed?
Repeating that behavior in the future might be your best bet if something similar happens again.
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Old May 18, 2020, 09:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
chrisintexas I was walking in a public park just before the virus spread and a big dog without leash was behaving aggressively as I was passing by on the walking path in the park and as I looked apprehensively towards the dog the owner began to make eye contact with me and made aggressive gestures at me!
What exactly are "aggressive gestures"? Googly eyes? Snarl? Boxers stance? Karate kicks?

Quote:
The park has a policy that states dogs cannot be without leash in the park. How should one deal with such situation?
You got a cell phone? Use it. Call 911 and tell them "aggressive dog off leash in the park and the owner has a snarl".


Quote:
Is it legal to use pepper spray on the dog if it attacked me?
Big stick, pepper spray, swords or even a firearm can legally be used to defend yourself. But you darn well better have a way to show that you/your dog were actually attacked.


Quote:
How should one deal with aggressive, unfriendly owner of the dog?
The same way you would deal with a that person if they didn't have a dog.
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Old May 18, 2020, 10:32 PM   #12
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I bet the USPS has an answer to your question...
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Old May 19, 2020, 02:52 AM   #13
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The OP hasn't been back to TFL since May 15, and he hasn't answered the question I asked in post #7. Let's wait and see if he is still interested in continuing this discussion.
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Old May 21, 2020, 11:52 AM   #14
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If I'm CCWing all legal with my wife and baby, and on the up and up and doggie is being a threat , my hand goes to the butt of the weapon.
Owner-boy gets the warning, if doggie attacks , doggie is gonna die.

Owner has the next move, He needs to holster his weapon.
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Old May 26, 2020, 10:42 AM   #15
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How does one define "attack?"

I think if the animal was actually making physical contact, trying to bite you then whatever you do at that point become self defense. Spray it, shoot it, kick it. I punched a dog once when it tried to grab restaurant left overs out of my hand.

But if the dog is still a few feet away and barking agressively . . . is that an attack?

Life is good.
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Old May 26, 2020, 11:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Young
I think if the animal was actually making physical contact, trying to bite you then whatever you do at that point become self defense. Spray it, shoot it, kick it. I punched a dog once when it tried to grab restaurant left overs out of my hand.

But if the dog is still a few feet away and barking agressively . . . is that an attack?
Check your state's statutes on the use of force, and deadly force. In general, statutes start off by prohibiting the use of force, and then they add some exceptions under which the use of force or deadly force is allowed. It's never a good idea to generalize ... so I'll proceed to do just that. Let's say that a "common theme" I have seen in those deadly force statutes I've looked at (which doesn't come close to covering all fifty states) is that you (the "actor" as some statutes phrase it) are allowed to use force and deadly force [against other people] if you believe that you are in "imminent" danger of death or serious bodily injury.

My layman's view is that, if I'm allowed to shoot a person when I [legitimately] fear that he may kill or injure me, I'm certainly allowed to shoot a dog under the same conditions. If the dog is acting aggressively, is a large enough breed that it could do some serious damage (not a Toy Poodle, for example), and isn't on a leash (especially in places where leashes are required) ... then I think I would be justified in shooting if the dog advances toward me.

Anyone who knows dogs should know that they can move quickly. A long, long time ago, when I was a teenager or maybe even pre-teen, we were very friendly with our next door neighbors, but not with there rather large and aggressive dog. One day my brother and I were standing in their driveway talking to the husband. The dog was present, but on a very heavy rope that held him out of reach. Except that the rope ran around a tree. The *&%&# dog was smart enough to figure out that if he circled behind the tree, the rope would be long enough to let him get at us. He did just that and, in the blink of an eye, he had taken a chunk out of my brother's posterior.
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Old May 27, 2020, 07:58 PM   #17
TheGlimmerMan
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Unruly dog not on leash, owner behaving aggressively

Don't express fear the dog can sense it. Let dog pass and report owner to 911 if needed. If dog attacks defend yourself proportionately.
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Old May 28, 2020, 09:10 AM   #18
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My brother walks his dog every night. He carries a innocent looking golf club he got at Good Will for $2.00. Carrying a club or sword could raise a few eyebrows. Golf club nobody gives a second look.
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Old May 28, 2020, 04:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luger fan
My brother walks his dog every night. He carries a innocent looking golf club he got at Good Will for $2.00. Carrying a club or sword could raise a few eyebrows. Golf club nobody gives a second look.
Rest assured that if your brother used a gold club to beat someone, he would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon and the golf club would be cited as a weapon.

Hammers and crowbars are tools of the trade for carpenters, but when they are found in the back seat of a gang banger's car along with Suzie Soccermom's family jewels they are miraculously transformed into "burglary tools."

It's all in the context, and when you use anything as a club the context is that you used whatever it is as a club.
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Old May 28, 2020, 04:38 PM   #20
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If you are seen walking with a hammer of crowbar chances are HIGH you will get a visit from LEO's. Not so much with a golf club............well not in the ghetto but where people play golf.
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Old May 28, 2020, 08:36 PM   #21
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I don't live in a ghetto. I live in a liberal enclave comprised mostly of doctors, lawyers, and professors. (They didn't let me in -- my family was here a couple of hundred years before they arrived). I assure you, a person strolling down the road with one golf club in his hand would raise suspicions, and might well result in the police being called to have a chat with the pedestrian.
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Old May 29, 2020, 07:51 AM   #22
luger fan
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Hi Aguila,

Guess that is the difference in where we live. HERE people in their yards with a gap wedge, chipping, is a common site.

p.s. in all fairness I live 1 mile from a course where the PGA hold annual tournaments.

Guess is like those living next to Whittington. Firearms ARE a common site.

Last edited by luger fan; May 29, 2020 at 07:57 AM.
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Old May 29, 2020, 08:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luger fan View Post
Hi Aguila,

Guess that is the difference in where we live. HERE people in their yards with a gap wedge, chipping, is a common site.

p.s. in all fairness I live 1 mile from a course where the PGA hold annual tournaments.

Guess is like those living next to Whittington. Firearms ARE a common site.
His point stands though. This is why pepper spray is popular. Plus its not permanent so if you have to use it on another doggie its not going to hurt that doggie, just drive them off, which is what you want. I have had to do that in the past to drive off a Husky. No one is hurt, except for a strange desire for fajitas...
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Old May 31, 2020, 10:19 AM   #24
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Certainly best advice was given to look at criminal law aspects in a given state's code and case law. But one should also consider there could be civil liability as well.
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Old May 31, 2020, 11:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luger fan
Guess that is the difference in where we live. HERE people in their yards with a gap wedge, chipping, is a common site.
Chipping or putting their yards is a different issue than walking down a public street or road, a couple of miles from home so someone who sees you probably doesn't know you, with a potential weapon in your hand. I've had the police called on me when I was walking, in daylight, in my neighborhood, and I didn't have anything in my hands.
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