Who makes the hottest .380 ball? - Page 2

American Man · December 23, 2019, 09:48 AM

I've used +P in the LCP and P3AT. I was just letting him know he needs to check his manuals, if anything just to know what they say about using +P. One of them said not to use it at all while the other shouldn't get a steady diet. I just shoot standard power nowadays so I forgot which is which.

Cheapshooter · December 23, 2019, 11:01 AM

Quote:

I've used +P in the LCP and P3AT. I was just letting him know he needs to check his manuals, if anything just to know what they say about using +P. One of them said not to use it at all while the other shouldn't get a steady diet. I just shoot standard power nowadays so I forgot which is which

Ruger says do not use +P in red, bold print in the LCP manual
I think Kel-Tec says it's OK
For the OP's Beretta, don't know. But as stated earlier....Why?
Standard pressure ammo is going to do anything as well as hyped up falsly titled +p.

Geezerbiker · December 23, 2019, 11:44 AM

IS Corbon still around? They used to make pretty hot ammo in most pistol cartridges. I remember buying some in .380 but that was a long time ago...

Tony

TruthTellers · December 23, 2019, 02:58 PM

If you want the highest velocity, I'd look at the Inceptor ammo that shoots a 60 grain bullet at 1200 fps.

rodfac · December 26, 2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

I'll start the response thread with Buffalo Bore's +P traveling at 1150 fps.

Holy cow! What length bbl. were they using for that velocity....and at what pressures? I've run some pretty hot handloads through my S&W Bodyguard380 and have yet to see 900+fps wink out on my chronograph.

It's my opinion that all ammunition manufacturers publish VERY optimistic muzzle velocities for their ammunition...and that covers all calibers too.

YMMv Rod

wild cat mccane · December 26, 2019, 10:42 AM

Corbon was bought by the Freedom Group (Remington). Corbon stock seems to come and go. Barnes (also Freedom Group bought) was/is the bullet in Corbon. Barnes is Freedom's big bullet name.

Corbon 80gr in 380 was the gold standard back in the day when it was just the P3AT.

Bullet is more important, not just in 380. Since the Hornady XTP was designed to penetrate more than expand. Hornady (maker of the XTP) states it's made with "controlled expansion." That is different than Federal/CCI (Vista Outdoors owns both) HST or Gold Dot which is set total expansion.

XTP seems to be a good bullet in 380. It expands to XTP's maximum expansion point and hits 12" in the 380 without high +P pressure.

stinkeypete · December 26, 2019, 01:13 PM

While I agree with most of what CheapShooter has said, my Berra Thunder is remarkably accurate with a surprisingly good trigger. While it’s not a bullseye gun, I could shoot it at Club League and not be close to last place.

I’m still working on perfecting a load, but the Winchester bullets are decided on.

TBM900 · December 26, 2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP-44

Thanks!!

I can "second" both S&B & Prvi Partisan

I carry PPU ball in the 380EZ and get excellent penetration
No need to waste money on boutique HP's as they simply do not penetrate far enough if they open
Penetration is far more important than expansion*

*

(yes I said it... que the haters)

Cheapshooter · December 26, 2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Penetration is far more important than expansion

Penetration is just one part of the equation.
Shot placement being the most critical.
Penetration without hitting "important stuff" can be much less effective than lesser penetration, but tearing up some goodies.

TBM900 · December 26, 2019, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

Penetration is just one part of the equation.
Shot placement being the most critical.
Penetration without hitting "important stuff" can be much less effective than lesser penetration, but tearing up some goodies.

Cleary you've never seen my "3 P's" mantra

Practice
Placement
Penetration

In typical self-defense scenarios
Using common service caliber handguns
The 3 P's trump all of the common arguments

wild cat mccane · December 26, 2019, 09:23 PM

FMJ 380 really shouldn't perform worse than 9mm FMJ.

Indeed, gel tests show in the 20s".

I don't think anyone would recommend 9mm doing that.
Myself, I wouldn't say 380 FMJ is the way to go based on that.

zoo · December 26, 2019, 09:29 PM

Close up, .380 should do whatever you need keeping in mind the limitations of a light pistol load.

gbclarkson · December 27, 2019, 12:42 PM

Quote:

I'll start the response thread with Buffalo Bore's +P traveling at 1150 fps.

Quote:

Holy cow! What length bbl. were they using for that velocity....and at what pressures? I've run some pretty hot handloads through my S&W Bodyguard380 and have yet to see 900+fps wink out on my chronograph.

According to Buffalo Bore's website:

"Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action)."

"➤ 1,160 fps -- BDA 3.75-inch barrel
➤ 1,149 fps -- Walther PPK 3.5-inch barrel
➤ 1,072 fps -- Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel
➤ 1,061 fps -- Keltec"

Cheapshooter · December 27, 2019, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Cleary you've never seen my "3 P's" mantra

Practice
Placement
Penetration

In typical self-defense scenarios
Using common service caliber handguns
The 3 P's trump all of the common arguments

Except for the fact that an assailant isn't going to be a piece of paper, stapled to a stationary stand. More likely a moving, jumping, running, slashing, stabbing, kicking, grabbing target.
That's when Murphy's law trumps all the training you have under your belt.
Not to say that practice isn't needed, or helpfull. But in the final result, luck has almost as much to do with hitting that tiny area of the spine that will immediately incapacitate a human as all the practice, and training.
Without that perfect hit to the CNS you are then hoping for one of the less sure ways that a human is incapacitated. Physical pain from being shot. In which a more destructive item passing through tissue would be helpful. Or mental shock from the fact they have been shot. Again, more tissue damage than a small hole poked through could be helpful. But maybe not. Mental shock, fainting, can be seriously effected by state of mind, adrenalin, or drugs.

TBM900 · December 27, 2019, 01:08 PM

What is the point of the extra recoil, blast, flash, pressure, and cost needed to get an extra 100-200fps out of 380 ball, when a standard pressure ball will easily fully penetrate the torso of a fully clothed adult.

Take the extra cost and apply it to simply shooting more and that practice will trump any perceived advantage of the expensive boutique cartridge.

Practice
Placement
Penetration

TBM900 · December 27, 2019, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

Except for the fact that an assailant isn't going to be a piece of paper, stapled to a stationary stand.

Except for the fact that...

Cite where I said a word about any such thing, one way or the other...

Quote:

More likely a moving, jumping, running, slashing, stabbing, kicking, grabbing target.
That's when Murphy's law trumps all the training you have under your belt.
Not to say that practice isn't needed, or helpfull. But in the final result, luck has almost as much to do with hitting that tiny area of the spine that will immediately incapacitate a human as all the practice, and training.
Without that perfect hit to the CNS you are then hoping for one of the less sure ways that a human is incapacitated. Physical pain from being shot. In which a more destructive item passing through tissue would be helpful. Or mental shock from the fact they have been shot. Again, more tissue damage than a small hole poked through could be helpful. But maybe not. Mental shock, fainting, can be seriously effected by state of mind, adrenalin, or drugs.

I have literally no clue what you are trying to say as it relates to my statement, all I see is a whole bunch of random non sequitur. Feel free to explain how any of that in any way even relates to my statement, let alone negates it, I'm all ears....

cjwils · December 27, 2019, 02:20 PM

I think the more important question is not which ammo is hottest, but which ammo never jams in your gun

MP-44 · December 27, 2019, 03:18 PM

I just asked a simple question and you would think I asked about the meaning of life

wild cat mccane · December 27, 2019, 10:57 PM

380 FMJ goes 18-22"

The hottest "+P" 380 FMJ goes 18-22"

Look for a +P in Underwood or BB.

Just know you're not getting what you think you are out of it.

SHR970 · December 28, 2019, 10:02 AM

MP-44 is using a Beretta 80 series 380. They are rated for CIP spec. ammo. CIP 380 ammo is beyond what SAAMI would call +P by a bit. MP-44's decision to run ball is his alone. That said, Euro Ball ammo will almost certainly run flawlessly in his gun.

Cheapshooter · December 28, 2019, 10:57 AM

Quote:

I have literally no clue what you are trying to say as it relates to my statement, all I see is a whole bunch of random non sequitur. Feel free to explain how any of that in any way even relates to my statement, let alone negates it, I'm all ears....

Quote:

Take the extra cost and apply it to simply shooting more and that practice will trump any perceived advantage of the expensive boutique cartridge.

Practice
Placement
Penetration

Because that practice, and perfect placement is on a paper target, stuck to a stationary stand.
I guess if you can talk that bag guy coming after you to stand there like a papervtarget, you'll be guaranteed that perfect placement. Otherwise it's as much luck as it is proficiency.
When that perfect placement isn't achieved, a bullet with more potential to do tissue damage can help in stopping an attack.

MP-44 · December 28, 2019, 12:56 PM

LOL. My next thread is going to be how accurate can a .380 be so I can get no answer to my question but a lot of replies telling me it's not a target pistol caliber

Cheapshooter · December 28, 2019, 02:13 PM

As accurate as the shooter.

It's not so much the round. More to do with the guns it's chambered in. Generally small, self defense oriented "pocket" pistols.

MP-44 · December 28, 2019, 03:33 PM

https://youtu.be/MxtN0xxzfsw

stinkeypete · December 28, 2019, 03:40 PM

Answer: check out Maxxtech, then Gecko for “hottest fmj loads”
Riff no.1: load your own and know what you are getting
Riff no.2: ... if the goal is “hot”, that’s why they make 9mm
Riff no.3: once you have overpenetrated, why overpenetrate more?
Riff no.4: in purchased ammo, I like Aguila for cheap/good and Winchester white box for irritatingly excellent accurate in my Bersa and it’s got a stouter kick and it hurts to pay twice as much as the Aguilla but it really groups well. I shoot at paper. Still working up hand loads.

December 23, 2019, 02:58 PM	#29
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	If you want the highest velocity, I'd look at the Inceptor ammo that shoots a 60 grain bullet at 1200 fps. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

December 27, 2019, 01:08 PM	#40
TBM900 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 777	What is the point of the extra recoil, blast, flash, pressure, and cost needed to get an extra 100-200fps out of 380 ball, when a standard pressure ball will easily fully penetrate the torso of a fully clothed adult. Take the extra cost and apply it to simply shooting more and that practice will trump any perceived advantage of the expensive boutique cartridge. Practice Placement Penetration __________________ Playboy billionaire Retired Colonial Marine 1st to walk on the moon without a spacesuit

December 28, 2019, 02:13 PM	#48
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	As accurate as the shooter. It's not so much the round. More to do with the guns it's chambered in. Generally small, self defense oriented "pocket" pistols. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

December 23, 2019, 09:48 AM	#26
American Man Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2018 Posts: 218	I've used +P in the LCP and P3AT. I was just letting him know he needs to check his manuals, if anything just to know what they say about using +P. One of them said not to use it at all while the other shouldn't get a steady diet. I just shoot standard power nowadays so I forgot which is which.

December 23, 2019, 11:44 AM	#28
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	IS Corbon still around? They used to make pretty hot ammo in most pistol cartridges. I remember buying some in .380 but that was a long time ago... Tony

December 26, 2019, 10:42 AM	#31
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	Corbon was bought by the Freedom Group (Remington). Corbon stock seems to come and go. Barnes (also Freedom Group bought) was/is the bullet in Corbon. Barnes is Freedom's big bullet name. Corbon 80gr in 380 was the gold standard back in the day when it was just the P3AT. Bullet is more important, not just in 380. Since the Hornady XTP was designed to penetrate more than expand. Hornady (maker of the XTP) states it's made with "controlled expansion." That is different than Federal/CCI (Vista Outdoors owns both) HST or Gold Dot which is set total expansion. XTP seems to be a good bullet in 380. It expands to XTP's maximum expansion point and hits 12" in the 380 without high +P pressure.

December 26, 2019, 01:13 PM	#32
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	While I agree with most of what CheapShooter has said, my Berra Thunder is remarkably accurate with a surprisingly good trigger. While it’s not a bullseye gun, I could shoot it at Club League and not be close to last place. I’m still working on perfecting a load, but the Winchester bullets are decided on.

December 26, 2019, 09:23 PM	#36
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	FMJ 380 really shouldn't perform worse than 9mm FMJ. Indeed, gel tests show in the 20s". I don't think anyone would recommend 9mm doing that. Myself, I wouldn't say 380 FMJ is the way to go based on that.

December 26, 2019, 09:29 PM	#37
zoo member Join Date: October 2, 2019 Posts: 414	Close up, .380 should do whatever you need keeping in mind the limitations of a light pistol load.

December 27, 2019, 02:20 PM	#42
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	I think the more important question is not which ammo is hottest, but which ammo never jams in your gun

December 27, 2019, 03:18 PM	#43
MP-44 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: VA Posts: 396	I just asked a simple question and you would think I asked about the meaning of life

December 27, 2019, 10:57 PM	#44
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	380 FMJ goes 18-22" The hottest "+P" 380 FMJ goes 18-22" Look for a +P in Underwood or BB. Just know you're not getting what you think you are out of it.

December 28, 2019, 10:02 AM	#45
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	MP-44 is using a Beretta 80 series 380. They are rated for CIP spec. ammo. CIP 380 ammo is beyond what SAAMI would call +P by a bit. MP-44's decision to run ball is his alone. That said, Euro Ball ammo will almost certainly run flawlessly in his gun.

December 28, 2019, 12:56 PM	#47
MP-44 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: VA Posts: 396	LOL. My next thread is going to be how accurate can a .380 be so I can get no answer to my question but a lot of replies telling me it's not a target pistol caliber

December 28, 2019, 03:33 PM	#49
MP-44 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: VA Posts: 396	https://youtu.be/MxtN0xxzfsw

December 28, 2019, 03:40 PM	#50
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	Answer: check out Maxxtech, then Gecko for “hottest fmj loads” Riff no.1: load your own and know what you are getting Riff no.2: ... if the goal is “hot”, that’s why they make 9mm Riff no.3: once you have overpenetrated, why overpenetrate more? Riff no.4: in purchased ammo, I like Aguila for cheap/good and Winchester white box for irritatingly excellent accurate in my Bersa and it’s got a stouter kick and it hurts to pay twice as much as the Aguilla but it really groups well. I shoot at paper. Still working up hand loads.