Home defense rounds

[xMINORxTHREATx]

When I first got my Mossberg for home defense, I kept Winchester SuperX 3 inch shell, 000 shot.

Since then I have read a lot of articles about over penetration in hand gun rounds, and pellets missing their target and hitting by standers, or penetrating walls and hitting bystanders, etc etc.

I was about to invest in the PDX1, when I thought about the over penetration issue.

I've tested birdshot rounds at close range against some home made ballistics gel, and was impressed, but then I added a leather jacket over the gel and decided to stay away from birdshot.

So what do you guys use? Any suggestions?
Any one make a low velocity slug?

[4runnerman]

45 ACP with a 300 gn Manstopper and 5.0 gn unique. Custom made by a friend of mine.

[xMINORxTHREATx]

That bullet looks sweet, but I meant for a shotgun.

Too bad they don't make that round in 9mm for my handgun.

[spacecoast]

Standard 2-3/4" 00 Buck. Here's 2 shots at 20 feet from my 12-gauge Wingmaster with a 18.5" barrel. Ignore the circled shots (different gun) -

[Skadoosh]

Any one make a low velocity slug?

Many makers make low-recoil shotgun rounds in slug and buckshot.

[pabuckslayer08]

Those rangers are pretty sweet, I however do load birdshot in my defense guns. Even with a leather jacket inside the house they are toast. Even with a kevlar jacket they are in trouble. Only need for a ranger is outdoors and I wouldnt ever take a shot once the target leaves the house

[zip22]

I however do load birdshot in my defense guns. Even with a leather jacket inside the house they are toast. Even with a kevlar jacket they are in trouble.

do you have any proof of this? birdshot is always rejected for defense as it does not have the penetration required.

two weeks ago, this intruder was shot 4 times.

"Police think the suspect was not more seriously injured because he was wearing heavy clothing that stopped some of the birdshot."
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi...ner_fires.html

I think when I get a shotgun, I'll go with #1 buckshot
http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

[pabuckslayer08]

I know im not standing at 15 yards looking down my barrel at it in a leather coat.

[zip22]

what?

[pabuckslayer08]

Sorry Zip, I re read that and wow, bad grammer. I meant that im not going to try it on myself shooting birdshot. No I dont have any type of proof or tests beside shooting it outdoors at cans, bottles, etc. Even shot a TV once and it definently was one angry TV

[zip22]

I wouldn't want to be shot at with a paintball gun, but that doesn't mean I would trust it as a defensive weapon. Why go with much weaker birdshot when there are much better - proven - options?

birdshot was enough to make the drunk guy in the article above leave, but he was probably more scared by the loud noise than the physical injury. if this guy's face can stop birdshot without serious injury, I doubt it would get through kevlar
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...151839728.html

[pabuckslayer08]

Your most definently correct, but I guess its just personal preference. No doubt that ranger would rip the target up and would be a A+ round. I guess I just never really thought I would ever need more power than birdshot from a 16ga, also I guarentee it wouldnt go through Kevlar but I was meaning it will spread out better and enter in different areas of the body of the target did have kevlar on

[Alden]

A LEO buddy recommended 2&3/4 inch #4 buckshot, so that is what mine is loaded with.

Lots of pellets, more punch than birdshot, less than 00 buck. Just right.

[Irish B]

#1 Buck

[Yung.gunr]

We have heard a lot of recommendations on what to keep in your home defense shotgun but I think we are all assuming it's a 12ga. Please clarify the gauge and barrel length. I know on the Winchester site they give some of the ballistics for their ammo but we don't know your specifics to make an informed suggestion.

Thanks....

[jmortimer]

Pictures are worth a thousand words. All testing that I have seen (Many many tests) clearly show that # 4 Buckshot is the minimum and that # 1 is even better and OO is better and so on - here are pictures/results in ballistic gelatin from Robert Farargo "Shotgun Penetration With Various Rounds" dated 2-27-2010 from the Truth About Guns site. Hopefully, we will someday stop hearing anyone recommend "birdshot" as it is really bad advice. http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02...arious-rounds/

[zippy13]

xMINORxTHREATx,

4runnerman may be on the right track -- we don't know. I appreciate your dilemma. Each of us has to make our HD gun/ammo decision based upon our own environment, shooting ability and defensive scenario/plan. What works for me probably won't for you. Obviously, it doesn't make sense to barricade yourself in a safe room if you have children sleeping in another part of your house. I'm in a masonry home in a rural area and not concerned with over-penetration; but, you may in a dense urban setting with neighbors on the other side of stud-framed party walls.

Don't trust your HD decisions to forum members who don't have a clue about your specific requirements and environment. Typically, these open ended threads on "what ammo for HD" evolve into two camps: Buckshot and birdshot with a smattering of slugs and duplex loads thrown in for variety. After you've established your HD criteria, then it's time to ask specific questions.

Good luck -- there are no easy answers.

[xMINORxTHREATx]

Zippy, just to clarify.

Right now I live in a standard stud framed house with plaster walls upstairs, and dry wall down stairs. There are three adults and two kids, 7 & 9 years old.

I'm using a 12guage Mossberg, 20'' barrel, 8 shot tube.

I'm about to move and wanna leave the shotgun here with my mother until I can get her a pistol. There is a Remington 11-87 slug gun thats here also, but the pump action is more grab and go for her than the 11-87 is.


I'm looking for something that won't over penetrate, and if she misses, won't destroy the house.

I have seen first hand that birdshot won't do jack to a leather jacket. I've already experimented myself.

I'm always wanting something thats low recoil / low velocity cause I don't want my mom to blow her ear drums out. She's already deaf in one ear, so I don't wanna make her deaf in both.

[Double Naught Spy]

Zanoletti Double Impact. It is a larger range big bird round with 2 one ounce shot cups with shot about double the size of bird shot. The first cup opens almost immediately and the second shot cup stays together for about 30-50 yards.

Your most definently correct, but I guess its just personal preference. No doubt that ranger would rip the target up and would be a A+ round. I guess I just never really thought I would ever need more power than birdshot from a 16ga, also I guarentee it wouldnt go through Kevlar but I was meaning it will spread out better and enter in different areas of the body of the target did have kevlar on

Somehow, I just don't think I would want to count on a few flyers that maybe strike an arm or belly and then don't penetrate very far to be substantial enough to convince the intruder to break off the attack. That is what you are talking about, convincing him to leave, not getting an actual physiological stop.

[zippy13]

Thanks for the heads-up, now you can go from the generic to the specific:
You want recommendations/info on a HD round for your mother to use in 8-shot M'berg pump with a 11-87 as possible back-up.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about over-penetration if your only concern is damaging your home. Typically, it's injuring the neighbors that's of concern -- it's easier to patch plaster and drywall than people.

So, you'd like to know about something with smaller pellets than a typical 00-Buck Mil/LE load. It should pass the leather jacket test, be quieter and possibly low recoil/velocity. It's barrel length that has a lot to do with blast noise, the laws of physics say the shorter the barrel on your HD gun, the bigger the boom -- let's see what the members can recommend within your criteria… Double Naught Spy has an interesting idea.

[rude robert]

second on the #4

[pabuckslayer08]

You guys are most definently correct about the heavier load. Just to clarify I shoot high brass bird shot and not low brass. 2 3/4 high brass bird shot from a 16 gauge. The idea of birdshot mixed with a few roundballs is a very lethal load

[markj]

I keep slugs in mine, at 10 feet the load will not open up so I just keep them slugs in there. I do have some 00 buck in 3in mag works on yotes just fine. I also keep a box of no. 2 copper plated goose loads, seen a deer get hit with one and it went right down, dont understand why he had those.......

[xMINORxTHREATx]

I'm not concerned with damage to the house, as I am pellets passing through a wall and hitting another member of my family. It's not just her in the house most of the time.

[4runnerman]

I'm not concerned with damage to the house, as I am pellets passing through a wall and hitting another member of my family. It's not just her in the house most of the time

How true,The house is just sheetrock,tv's,ect. The other senerio i could not live with..