3.5" vs 3"

[Super-Dave]

I have been thinking of getting either a supermagnum or Benneli or even the new 887.

Does anybody really need a 3.5"?

Is there anything that a 3.5" can do that I cannot get done with a 3"?

[jmr40]

The only reason to consider the 3 1/2 in my opinion is if you hunt geese a lot. The smaller shells do just fine on ducks, turkey and most anything else you hunt. You can get more of the large steel shot in the 3 1/2" shell.

If geese are rarely hunted you can still do pretty good with 3" shells. You may have to pass up a few shots that you probably shouldn't take anyway. Or shell out the money for the more expensive non-toxic shot.

I cannot think of any advantage the lead shot 3 1/2" shells have that would be worth the brutal recoil. The steel shot loads are stout, but tolerable.

[globemaster3]

I respectfully disagree with "needing" the 3.5 for geese. Two separate assignments, WA and OK, I hunted geese with abandon. In both situations I used 2-3/4" BB and took plenty of limits of greaters, lessers, specks and snows both over water and in the fields. I never had a want for more. I shot a limited amount (probably a case) of 3" in my pump, and it does OK, but I have not noticed an appreciable improvement in how dead the bird was when it hit the water or the number of cripples I got.

Now, let me add some conditions: I hunt over dekes, take birds either coming into dekes or close passing shots, and I do not sky bust. Nothing gets my goat more than seeing someone sky bust a flock at 90 yards that someone else is working with a call. I also spent untold hours on the range with my shotgun shooting trap and skeet and had a great understanding of how that gun shot.

I have not hunted turkey, but my understanding from talking to some who do is the 3.5 really shines when you are trying to get that denser pattern for the head shot. Makes sense since you are adding some more shot, assuming you keep the choke and the distance the same.

[oletymer]

All I use is 2 3/4 loads and have killed all the geese, ducks and turkies that went after. I still load for my brother for turkeys in 2 3/4 and he limits out every year. If you know hunting and are a good shot that is all you need.

[Jimbow1965]

First, There is only one shotgun Benelli SBE2.
And the 3 1/2 is the best thing to happen to a 12ga since
shotgun shells were invented.
Turkeys and waterfowl.
( I know...but thru the years I have owned them all and always felt something was missing....and there was...A SBE2.....ohhh it makes me smile just thinking about it.)
So....3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5.......................YESSSS

[BigJimP]

No, 3" is plenty even for waterfowl.

[Brian Pfleuger]

If your shoulder benefits from a little extra wallop every so often then get the 3.5.
Mine never has, I stay "small".

[Jimbow1965]

It makes me smile so wide when I say...........3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5.........AAAAHHHHAAaaaahahahah
The madness...the madness,...hahahhaahhahaaa

3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5ahahhahhahhhhhhaaaaaa

[Ruger4570]

I personally don't own a 3.5 and I know it will never happen. I get all the "tenderizing" my shoulder needs with a 3".
I shoot Canada geese every year with my 3" Berreta and it works just fine. I don't try across the pond shots either.

[Dave McC]

I haven't needed a 3.5" shell yet to hunt anything in North America yet, but then I'm only 62.

3" shells picked for a mission work.

[Lee Lapin]

If you reeeeeeeeeally do think you need a 3.5" 12 gauge- what you really actually need is a 10 gauge. It's a question of effective payload delivery, and the 10 launches heavier shot loads more effectively than the 12.

Personally, I don't even need a 3" 12 gauge- but then, I don't hunt ducks or turkeys.

lpl

[bejay]

you will get a little more effective killing range out of the 3.5 but as mentioned by many even a standard 2 3/4 or 3 inch is plenty enough to kill turkeys or geese if they are close enough so the 3.5 inch does offer a little advantage over 3 inch if your hunting with others that are using a 3.5 inch shells and your using 3 inch im sure you will notice the difference.

[levrluvr]

I've also never needed anything over my lifetime but the good old 2 3/4. The Magnum Turkey loads work just fine, and I've certainly never needed anything more for pheasant or duck. I don't hunt geese, but I would think 3's would be plenty. Know your gun, practice with it alot, and don't take shots beyond its capability and load.

[Jimbow1965]

Ok enough fooling around.
yadayadayada...we all know you can kill an elephant with a 2 3/4 # 12 shot.
BlaBlaBla. Thats not what the 3.5 was for. we all know this.
I hunt in the northeast...its like hunting at the mall....too many people.
And what that does is make the ones that got away a little smarter. They fly sooner or the run a little faster. Steel as we all know...stinks...2 sizes bigger..you all know the deal. more shot better with steel.And no I can't afford hevi-shot all season
I know, I know..."If you were a better woodsman"...ok now back to what I was talking about. For turkeys...the 3.5 shines..if you can get'em with a BB gun...good for you...Me and maybe others? I need all the help I can get. Recoil...I traded 5 guns to get my SBE2 so I could take the recoil, an AR, a Ruger red lable, a winchester 1500 semi auto, mossburg 500, and a....gun I can't remember...the 3.5 in this gun has less recoil than 3" shells in my ruger.
This is my opinion.
If I wanted to make the grouse and pheasent I hunt a wet blob on the field, I would have bought a 10 ga. I hunt them all from grays to Canadas to turkeys...Heck I even took the SBE2 deer hunting this year. So that in a rather large nut shell is why I...yes I...like the 3.5. its there if you need it(or want it) and if you don't want to use it....don't it shoots 2 3/4 or 3s just as well.
Thanks for reading my minds wonderings...Jimbow.

[Brad Clodfelter]

I would say that a 3.5 2 and 1/4oz turkey load will kill more effectively than a 3" 2oz load. Pattern percentage is all fine and dandy, but you have to take in consideration that more shot means more killing power at farther distances providing if that the majority of that extra shot shoots inside of a 30" circle at 40yds or even 50yds. My findings are from the guns I have tested on cardboard that the extra shot makes a difference on the amount of shot you can put inside a 30" circle at 40yds or farther. So pattern % vs # of shot is not always the key to killing at farther distances. Some say that pattern % is increased when you go down in the actual weight of the shot charge. Well I say maybe so for the most part, but that is not what kills effectivley as more shot in a circle at 40yds either. Simply put I will take a 90% pattern in a 30" cirle at 40yds with a 2 and 1/4oz #4 turkey load over a 3" 1 and 3/4oz or 2oz load any day. The same can be said about shot size. I would much rather have a gun that shoots 90% patterns with #4 turkey loads than one that shoots 90% patterns with #5 or #6 turkey loads especially if a big gobbler is hanging up at 50yds or farther. My Mossberg actually shoots 90% patterns with all 3 shot sizes, but #4's go in my gun.

If it were me, I would buy a Mossberg 835 28" barrel and top it off with a .695 Hunters Specialties Undertaker choke tube if I was wanting to turkey hunt. Use Winchester Supreme 12GA 2 and 1/4oz turkey loads with #4 shot. You can kill turkeys consistantly out to 55yds from my findings. I have killed one at 59yds. I had a Browning Gold 3.5" Auto that I sold because the Mossberg shot the #4 shot better. Some guys are sold on 5 shot or 6 shot, but the 4 shot is simply a lot more effective at putting turkeys to the ground at 50yds are farther. I have killed enough turkeys to know what does a better job of putting birds on the ground for good.

[Brad Clodfelter]

Also the Mossberg 835 .775 backbored barrel will shoot your larger shot sizes better than your regular .730 backbored barrels which is typical of most factory barrel shotguns. Now Remington, Benelli, etc will deny that claim, but I'm telling you I can prove them wrong. Larger shot size even in lead shot(#4's or bigger) will simply put shoot better out of a bigger backbored barrel most of the time. Very few turkey guns with a standard backbored barrel of around .730 or so will shoot 90% patterns at 40yds in a 30" circle using #4 turkey loads that are 1 and 3/4oz or bigger. My Mossberg 835 with the Undertaker choke and the Win loads I mentioned will consistently shoot 90% patterns at 40yds. And it will consistently put turkey after turkey to the ground standing at 50yds or slightly farther. Very few shotguns can make that claim.

[535shooter]

well i have your same dilemma and i sat and wondered and did my research so I decided to buy the mossberg 535. It gives you all the range you need from the 2 3/4 up to the 3.5. Maybe i'll never need to load it with a 3.5 but maybe I will.. It has the capability to shoot it if I need it..

[Swampghost]

2-3/4" have worked for me for almost 50 yrs. Barrel lengths and chokes make the difference. I'm also getting too old for 'shoulder cannons', the 10 ga. hasn't seen action in 15 yrs.

[Brad Clodfelter]

Yes, for the most part you are correct about barrel lengths and choke tubes. But I can tell you that 2 and 3/4in shells aren't very effective on turkeys at 40yds like the 3" turkey loads or 3.5" turkey loads are.

[oletymer]

Brad, bullsh**t you have been fed. If you are on target at 40 yds. the turkey is dead. I am thawing out one now for dinner.

[Brad Clodfelter]

1 and 5/8oz is about the maximum shot charge that I am aware of with a factory Fedreral offering. I noticed I said the words aren't very effective and I should have said are not as effective, so I thank you for correcting me on my choice of words. But I can telll you through personal experience that 3" and 3.5" heavy turkey loads will be a lot more effective at killing turkeys at farther distances and that is no bull. I'll take 2oz of lead or 2 and 1/4oz of lead anyday on shooting turkeys closer to the 50yd marker or just a little farther.

[levrluvr]

Brad- your math is sound, and I see your point. A heavier load, longer shell with more powder will definitely extend your range if needed. I do marvel a little at how well some of the newer dedicated turkey-barrel equipped guns can reach out.
I'm a little old fashioned, and as 'swampghost' posted above, I've had good success on turkeys for decades without jumping on the bandwagon of buying new camo shotguns with ultra-turkey barrels or whatever at exorbitant prices.
I'm getting a little old for shoulder punches, and even thought I own two shotguns that will chamber 3" shells, I still hunt with 2 3/4" magnums #4 shot with success. I rarely get skunked. Hard to change at my age when something works, and it will only cost me more money. Dead turkey is still dead turkey to me.
I guess I should rethink my tactics and stop letting the turkeys get so close.

[Brad Clodfelter]

Hey thanks for the comments.

No need to change what has been working for you. I just like the fact that I know I have one of the farthest reaching turkey shotguns on the market with the right loads and choke. I didn't get it by guessing at what works, but rather testing different shotguns I owned and trying out what actually works on cardboard at 40 and 50yds and seeing how the results actually work on the turkeys in the woods which by the way is what counts. But testing on big sheets of cardboard at 40yds with different loads, shot size, and chokes tubes with various constriction gives you a precise idea of what works in the real world. Like I said, in a perfect world there would be no need to shoot a turkey at say 50yds, but again we don't live in a perfect world. I know for a fact that my Mossberg 835 will drop dang near every single gobbler in his tracks at 50yds with the loads and choke tube I have. And if he was lucky enough to manage to not go down immediately he wouldn't be able to probably walk or run off. The best he could do would be to flop a few feet in all likelihood. When you have a gun that will consistently and I do mean consistently shoot 90% patterns with 2 and 1/4oz of #4 shot, it simply is devastation on a turkey at 50yds and even a little farther from my findings. Like I said, I have shot 2 birds with my 835 since switching over to it from a Browning Gold auto 3.5" and 1 was at 53yds, and one was at 59yds using heavy #4 loads and both went straight down and was immobilized to where they couldn't move or fly. Now that is killing power. I actually showed my son a few days later where I shot the bird at 59yds. I had him stay at the tree I shot the bird from and I went to where the feathers were on the ground in the field. He couldn't believe that a shotgun could kill a turkey that far. Now I don't recommend everyone to try this, but you have to know your shotgun and its capabilities.

[Brad Clodfelter]

I'll give you guys a little tidbit of info on brands of turkey loads and how they pattern in relation to shot size. And I can't really explain this, other than it may boil down to the actual roundness of shot the manufacturers are using or the buffering material used or maybe even the type of wad used or the material used to make the wad. Now that is a guess on my part, and remember every shotgun barrel may be a little different even from the same manufacturer, but my testing shows them to be consistent from barrel to barrel from gun to gun from the same manufacturer. The same can be said for the same make of choke tubes with the same constriction. They all are basically about the same in the way they shoot when using the same type loads from them.

Now back to my point. And these are based on copper plated or lead shot heavy turkey loads. In the shotguns I have tested using either factory barrels from Remington 870 shotguns, a Browning Gold 3.5" auto, or a Mossberg 835, all have seemed to prefer Winchester Supreme loads when using #4 shot. And on #5 shot, it's a toss up from Federal or Winchester loads. And on #6 shot Federal Premium is the hands down winner in every gun I have tested. The #6 Winchester loads do seem to have a tendency to shoot a heavier concentration of shot toward the center of the pattern at 40yds, but the pattern % inside the 30" circle goes to the Federal loads. And, too, the Winchester loads seem to not be as consistent with the this tighter center-span of shot meaning sometimes they won't do it. Another reason why I like the Federal #6 loads and their overall pattern consistency.

On another note, some of the best plain lead shot loads I have found were the Remington Nitro 3" 1 and 7/8oz # 6 loads. They shoot nice dense evenly spread patterns at 40yds. I have tried the Kent turkey loads with the nickel plated shot, and I wasn't impressed.

[NightSleeper]

I've fired some 3.5" shells through mine. Never again. I'd maybe use a 3.5" as my first shot while turkey hunting, but not for HD. I use 2.75" for that, either 00 buck or #4. That's more than enough to take down a 2-legged predator. In an HD situation, I think follow-up shots are more important than relying on just one big blaaast and an achy-breaky shoulder to get the job done.