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Old September 13, 2017, 10:32 PM   #1
Emerson Biggies
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AR barrel a dirt sponge?

I've just bought and began re-loading for my new AR15 in 5.56/223. After firing an initial 30 rounds of LC17 Federal ammo, I quickly learned how to take it down and clean it. I always start with a bronze brush wet with Hoppies. Then wait a few minutes before running patches through the bore. This initial firing took about 20 patches in order to get down to the "GRAY" patch level of clean.
Then I shot up about 30 of my hand loads. After running the wet bronze brush 3 times with MPRO7 and Hoppies and about 30 patches, they are still coming out black!
I have many rifles and pistols, but this one takes the cake for holding on to fouling in the bore. Maybe it has something to do with the high velocity of the ammo? Powder was 19.0 gr. IMR4198 With Hornady 55g FMJ.
Maybe I oughta' try using wooden bullets?
Why doesn't someone invent "cleaning bullets" that you fire when done shooting regular ammo!????
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Old September 14, 2017, 06:39 AM   #2
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New barrel may be a little rough inside and hopefully will smooth out requiring less cleaning effort in the future.
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Old September 14, 2017, 08:28 AM   #3
hdwhit
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I use IMR-4198 in most of my 223 loadings and do not experience this sort of problem. Once through with the brush and then three or four patches are all that is required.
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Old September 14, 2017, 08:55 AM   #4
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I have not had a barrel that bad ever, even with over 500 rounds down range in one afternoon, interesting.
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Old September 14, 2017, 03:40 PM   #5
bfoosh006
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What finish is the inside of your barrel ?

Chrome Lined ?

Nitrated ?

Stainless Steel ?

Sometimes you are just polishing bores ( IE those patches will never be super clean ) , rather then cleaning...

And is your barrel hand lapped ?

A less expensive ( rougher ) barrel ?
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Old September 14, 2017, 07:28 PM   #6
Emerson Biggies
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Mine is a Del-Ton, a cheapie ($400), but I have to say it is well made and very functional. I have absolutely no complaints about the accuracy or function of the piece. I believe the model is an "ECHO 316." I got it through CDNN sports.
The barrel may be coated with used beer cans as far as I know. Looking down the bore shows me shiny metal, but you can't see much in a 22 caliber bore. One may as well look thru a BB gun bore.
I took it to the range today and shot up about 40 rounds with 55 grain bullets loaded with both H335 and IMR4198. Maybe the bore will get broken in and smoothed out soon. Someone told me to get a copper cleaner for the bore. Sheesh I have $24 invested in bore cleaners already.
My LAR 50 caliber cleans up quicker than this beast.
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Old September 14, 2017, 08:52 PM   #7
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"Maybe the bore will get broken in and smoothed out soon."
Probably not by just blowing bullets down the tube 40 at a time. Every one has their own opinion about "barrel break-in".
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Old September 14, 2017, 09:07 PM   #8
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Sometimes/often new guns come with the bore lined with "protective" grease in order to protect it from premature rust etc. I've seen a few of these take quite a few patches to clear.
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Old September 16, 2017, 02:16 PM   #9
ed308
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I usually clean my barrel before shooting for the first time to get all the crud left behind. But after that initially cleaning, I don't clean them all that much. More at first since they tend to pickup copper until they are seasoned with carbon. Carbon is not that big of a deal. But copper is since it will reduce accuracy. So when I notice accuracy fall off, I clean. I also clean before a match if the AR, pistol or shotgun is dirty and I'm worried about a malfunction. And especially if I shoot cheap steel case ammo through my AR or pistol.
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Old September 16, 2017, 03:25 PM   #10
243winxb
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5.56mm & 223 Remington

I have used old data of 21.5 gr of IMR 4198 & 55 GR Win fmjbt bullets in many different brands of brass.

More pressure may get a cleaner burn?

Last edited by 243winxb; September 16, 2017 at 04:32 PM.
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Old September 16, 2017, 04:30 PM   #11
243winxb
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Copper eraser in smokeless powders. Some use Tin Dioxide.

Use powder like
CFE 223 contains Copper Fouling Eraser ingredient, originally used in military propellant, which greatly deters copper fouling and contributes to longer periods of top accuracy with less barrel cleaning time ,for rifles.

Reloder powders have it, except 17.


All Vihtavuori reloading powders produced today have an added decoppering agent, also called anti-fouling agent.
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Old September 18, 2017, 09:03 AM   #12
Mr. Hill
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You might want to try a foaming bore cleaner in it.

Or, if it shoots well, just accept that she's a dirty girl, and that's just fine. Use it as a justification for less cleaning, and only deep clean when accuracy suffers.
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Old September 18, 2017, 12:01 PM   #13
bfoosh006
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I suspect the bore is kind of rough ( not in a crap way, just not finely honed. ) ... it will smooth out slowly... until then it will "collect" fouling in the less then perfect spots down the bore.
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Old September 20, 2017, 10:40 PM   #14
Emerson Biggies
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I did the wet bore brush then broke my nylon split end jag on the first patch. The bore soaked for 5-6 days while my new jag came in the mail from Midsouth.
About 5 patches made it come out to a nice gray color.

THEN! ran the bronze bore brush thru it again and WHAT! the blackened patches started to emerge again. This lasted for 5 patches and then one more time the bronze bore brush caused the black fouling to appear again. Then all was clean. The bronze brush was definitely breaking free more crud for 3 passes..
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Old September 20, 2017, 11:10 PM   #15
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Buy them, inspect & clean them, oil & lube them, then shoot shoot shoot them until it starts malfunctioning. Then spray clean them(pressurized air and or pressurized gun cleaning solvent), bore snake the barrel oil & lube them then shoot shoot shoot them & repeat. Copper build up causing pressure spikes is something to watch for over time, over less time with a roughed up barrel .
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Old September 23, 2017, 07:05 AM   #16
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Keep in mind, if you dont flush the brush, youre probably putting crap back in the barrel for the patches to pick up.

Just sayin.

But I know what you mean, and I go through the same thing. I usually sloppy wet patch the barrel until the loose crud is out, then wet brush it and let it sit. The I do the rest of the upper, lower, and BC group. Then I go back to the barrel and dry patch and brush until the patches start coming out fairly clean. Patches are usually pretty close to "light grey/white" by then when run through dry.

All my AR's take awhile to get clean. It just is what it is.

Im always amazed by the "all it takes is a couple of brush strokes and 5 patches" guys. I suppose we all have a different idea as to what "clean" is.

Then you have the "I never clean mine" guys.

Hey, whatever, I clean mine.
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Old September 23, 2017, 11:38 AM   #17
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Just my opinion and experience, others mileage may vary. "Clean enough" is still accurate still reliable & with no signs of high pressure issues. All I ever clean an AR barrel with is a snake and various wonder solvents oils & grease. Having said that, I do wash my snakes about once a year & also have some snakes with no brush in them as well I stopped wasting my time and patches and stopped using a cleaning rod on my Glocks and AR's years back, I'd bet more barrels have been ruined from over/improper cleaning than from not cleaning.
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Old September 24, 2017, 08:22 AM   #18
Mr. Hill
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Glk, to an extent I agree with you, although I use a jag and patches. I don't need a perfectly clean bore, but I am wary of copper and carbon build up, because when that stuff (especially copper) accumulates, it's a pain to remove. So I use jag & patch every time. I never used to use a bore brush, but a recent experience with carbon build up has convinced me that it is necessary, at least periodically. Nevertheless, I go easy on the bore when cleaning, simply because of McMillan's warnings about abusing a bore by cleaning aggressively.
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Old September 24, 2017, 09:20 AM   #19
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For less expensive bore cleaning solvents, try
Janitor's ammonia- cut 6:1 with water swab it out right away.
Vinegar
Dawn about 6:1 with water-use this right before lightly oiling the barrel.

If you do mag dumps, or fire in excess of 10 or so rounds, barrels are going to
tend to need more attention.
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Old September 24, 2017, 04:26 PM   #20
Emerson Biggies
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My AR15 bore dirt sponge has fixed itself! After today's shooting of 40 rounds the patches got to the gray level in about 7 passes. Application of the bronze bore brush did not dislodge any more crap as it had been in the past. The gun has gone to sleep.
BLess you all for your suggestions and help! I'm going to neglect cleaning the machine for quite a while now and follow your timely suggestions. I will look for inaccuracy or malfunction to govern my future cleanings.
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Old September 25, 2017, 09:29 PM   #21
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Try a different cleaner--accelerator and wipeout..
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