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Old September 10, 2017, 08:55 PM   #1
zrx4me
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any M1 carbine experts here?

Dad passed away last year and left me a walther/mauser P-38 he took off a dead german officer and a M1 carbine he picked up at a gun show back in the '80's or 90's.was cleaning the carbine tonight to keep busy during hurricane and noticed a lot of markings on it:
Behind rear sight: inland Div 5096361
On top of breach: US carbine M1
A "P" stamped on stock behind trigger
"Underwood 1-43" with a flaming bomb behind front sight
One magazine that says only 1A and two that say KSG
Some one scratched "FGE" on bottom of trigger guard,im guessing a one time owner/soldier

any insights appreciated.I know inlands are pretty common.
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Old September 10, 2017, 09:40 PM   #2
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That is what's know in the circle as a "mix master" gun.

If I were you, I'd hunt down different parts to make it all correct. The goal is to have a rifle with all the parts made at the same factory. This increases value and makes the guns as they were during the War.
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Old September 10, 2017, 10:05 PM   #3
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That would be a goal that some aspire to. Some folks spend lots of time and money looking for the "Correct" parts for U.S. issued firearms. U.S. issued weapons such as the M1 Carbine never had serial numbered parts that were matched to the gun.

If you actually go and look at the books and find all of the correct drawing number parts that might have been in that firearm when it was issued, it's going to take a while and some dollars. If you look at all of the possible substitutions where one company that had a lot of hammers or slides sent them to a company that was short, you will find there are a lot of possibilities that may be "Correct."

If you track down all of those parts, it might now be "Correct," but it's not original.

There are very few military issue weapons that have not ever been serviced and had a part replaced. Not one Armorer or D.S. level Small Arms Repairman ever worried about was this the "Correct" part for this particular weapon. They worried about was this a proper part within specifications to return this weapon to proper functioning and serviceability.

Most all of these weapons that were ever issued went through a depot level refurbishing at some point. The people that serviced those weapons never worried about "Correct" parts either.

Anyone can chase the Unicorn if they want to and there is nothing wrong with that. I would submit that most nearly all "Correct" guns would more "Correctly" be called "Parts" guns. They just happen to have the "Correct" parts.

Your Carbine may be 100% "as issued" as of the last time it left a U.S. Army arms room, shop, depot, or armory. Nobody knows.
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Old September 10, 2017, 10:44 PM   #4
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I would not attemp to make the carbine all Inland as you would need to get not only Inland parts but the correct era for those parts but the biggest problem is the barrel is already an Underwood replacement. As your carbine is currently configured you can get many hours of fun shooting...it was good enough for dad so keep it as is.
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Old September 10, 2017, 11:56 PM   #5
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I'm not an M-1 carbine expert,and I might be all wet,but my understanding is the approach to M-1 Carbine production was a little different.
1903's,M-1 Garands,etc ...if I have this correct,were built start to finish in one arsenal.
I think the carbine was contracted out as parts. A supplier did not have to make entire guns.TRW might make bolts,Saginaw might make slides,etc.
A brand new M-1 carbine off the line might have 4 different contractor parts in it.
Seems like I read that someplace.It MIGHT even be true!!
I'm sure there were one plant start to finish carbines,but its not a for sure.
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Old September 11, 2017, 10:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
zrx4me wrote:
[A]ny insights appreciated.
Take it out, shoot it, enjoy it and savor the memories it evokes.

As others have already pointed out, even if you chase down the parts to make it appear "correct", it still won't be original and unless you're familiar with the foibles of assembling one of these rifles you run the risk of creating a "correct" rifle that won't work. And since it will no longer be "Dad's" rifle you'll have destroyed the sentimental value in the process.

And if you're looking to its value as a collector's piece, keep in mind the people most interested in this rifle (whether "as is" or with all parts stamped the same) are from the World War II, Korea and early-Vietnam generations and they're dying off at the rate of thousands per day.

My father is 93 and is a World War II, Korea and Vietnam veteran. He carried an M1 (or M2) Carbine throughout each. In the 1970's he very much wanted an M1 Carbine and ended up buying two. By the mid-1980s he had replaced them with Ruger Mini-14s. Today, he has no interest in an M1 Carbine at any price. I doubt he is alone.
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Old September 11, 2017, 12:27 PM   #7
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"...the carbine was contracted out as parts..." Sort of. There were 9 Carbine makers, none of whom made all 60 something parts. Some just made receivers. Saginaw Steering Gear(GM) made no barrels at all. Some IBM Carbines had Auto-Ordnance made receivers. Hordes of small shops all over the eastern U.S. made Carbine parts. So there's no such thing as an "all Correct" Carbine.
Underwood made the most at 35 including the receiver. Inland(also GM) made 9 including receivers.
In any case, after W.W. II, 99.99% of all Carbines went through an arsenal rebuild to bring 'em all up to date with all the Wartime changes. Stuff like adjustable sights, bayonet lug and other minor changes. No weapons tech, then or now, cares who made the parts he puts into any weapon. They come out of a bin.
As to ammo, there's is no reliable sources for milsurp ammo. French made ammo is corrosively primed too. Reloading is your friend. .30 Carbine is reloaded just like a pistol cartridge using a carbide sizer die. Highly recommend 110 grain SP's or HP's(been using Speer's for eons myself) with IMR4227 at 1.680" OAL.
"...hunt down different parts to make it all correct..." Colossal waste of time and money. Especially as you cannot.
Anyway, the best Carbine site on the net is here. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/
"...parts that were matched to the gun..." Only U.S. issued weapon that had parts fitted to the individual weapon was the Reising SMG, manufactured by Harrington & Richardson. Friggin' nightmare when they get mixed too. Also why the Reising was not officially adopted.
The "P" stamped on the stock is just a proof mark. Means the thing was factory tested and passed. Mind you, that doesn't mean that stock was originally on that Carbine.
"...replaced them with Ruger Mini-14s..." A Carbine will shoot circles around any Mini-14.
"...and they're dying off..." Nope. Supply is low. The demand for Carbines is not. That's why there are several commercially made copies and some just plain commercial Carbines. The odd time the CMP gets a few in, they're sold out almost immediately.
Oh and all those stories you hear about frozen Chinese quilted jackets stopping .30 Carbine bullets in Korea are nonsense. At -40F a frozen jacket meant you died.
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Old September 11, 2017, 05:52 PM   #8
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thanks for the replies.I just wanted to make sure I did not have something so rare that I would be better off not shooting it(like the P-38 which is all matching and never laid hands on by anybody after dad took it off the dead officer).I plan on shooting that carbine.she is a sweet little baby to add to the gun vault.
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Old September 11, 2017, 07:01 PM   #9
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Your P-38 is not "Unfired,new in box"
I think if it was clean and lightly lubricated it would not hurt a thing to go to WalMart,buy a 100 box of Winchester cheap hardball and have some fun once in a while.
Just put it back in the safe clean and lightly lubed.Its a robust handgun.

I would suggest quality factory loaded brass case hardball ammo.
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Old September 11, 2017, 07:11 PM   #10
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You have 2 priceless heirloom firearms. Enjoy them with fond memories of who gave them to you. Dollars can never replace these ever.
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Old September 11, 2017, 07:48 PM   #11
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no worries Tony.That walther/mauser P-38 will never leave my hands until death.Too much family history.When dad was disembarking the ship coming back to NYC from europe they were confiscating guns from the GI's.Dad saw his uncle (who was a longshoreman)as he was coming down the gangway and handed the P-38 to him.quite a bit of luck.I rarely ever got to see the gun until I was in my late teens. he was getting a little mentally off in the last year before he died and almost sold the gun to some hustler.Luck would have it that I called him that day and said"I don't care if you dont leave me anything in the will,but I want that gun to stay in the family."He kept it.
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Old September 11, 2017, 09:35 PM   #12
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I wish I had an M-1 Carbine. Just too many other rifles to be had. Glad you got some nice rifles from your dad.
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Old September 12, 2017, 09:05 AM   #13
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Oh and all those stories you hear about frozen Chinese quilted jackets stopping .30 Carbine bullets in Korea are nonsense.
Aye. A lot of those stories have been put to bed since YouTube came of age and people started testing them on video. I forget exactly who did it; IV8888 maybe; but he stacked an overkill's worth of winter clothing over a gel block and went right through all of it.

Out to 300 yards or so, the .30 is a potent little round. And the carbine, itself, is a hell of a hoot to shoot. Just plain old fun.
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Old September 12, 2017, 10:00 AM   #14
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There were about 20? different Mfg's making the M1 Carbine during WWII. I have an IBM. As far as parts are concerned, all made the parts to the same requirements, so interchanging parts would not be a problem. My guess is your Carbine may have been refurbished and used in the Korean War. Many of the Korean War issues were made from whatever parts were available.
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Old September 12, 2017, 11:30 AM   #15
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YouTube proves nothing. You'll still see guys, some supposedly Korean vets, but usually just some guy who heard from an uncle's 3rd cousin who knew a guy saying he witnessed a Carbine round bouncing off a frozen ChiCom quilted jacket. If you're wet or wearing frozen clothing at even 10 below, you die.
"...were about 20?..." Nope. 9. Listed on the .30 Carbine site.
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Old September 12, 2017, 05:35 PM   #16
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A Carbine will shoot circles around any Mini-14.
I would like to see the 30 Carbine that can shoot circles around the group posted by rickyrick in post #81. I don't think it can be done.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=589498&page=4
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Old September 12, 2017, 06:07 PM   #17
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If you track down all of those parts, it might now be "Correct," but it's not original.
Exactly. If the gun has been unaltered since it left the custody of Uncle Sam, it's as original as it's ever going to be.

If you're going to shoot it, and you're not facing a zombie apocalypse, I'd recommend 15rd mags; all of my 15s are reliable, but 30s are a crap-shoot.

The Carbine rates very high as a "fun gun", easy to shoot, fits people of all sizes, isn't especially loud, doesn't recoil much.

And, it's a decent weapon. There are some modern, high-performance rounds, and it's a lot easier to hit with than a pistol, even if it's not much of a rifle (not surprising, since it was designed to replace a pistol, not a rifle).

Quote:
A brand new M-1 carbine off the line might have 4 different contractor parts in it.
My gun is a Quality Hardware, and even though they were considered a prime contractor, they made only receivers; every other part was made by someone else. Mine has a Rock-Ola barrel. The gun was subsequently rebuilt with M2 stock, twist safety, adjustable rear sight, bayonet lug, etc., etc., as most Carbines were. I suspect that the barrel is original to the receiver, but perhaps every other part was replaced.
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Old September 13, 2017, 07:04 AM   #18
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The temperature at the Chosin Reservoir dropped to as low as -35. Frostbite injuries were rampant, but at least those who were wounded didn't bleed...
I would have doubted the stories about the 30 Carbine failures, but I read some histories on the subject...especially "last stand of Fox Company", which tells the story of the Marines stopping the Chinese at Toktong Pass.
They experienced many failures with the carbine. This was close range fighting, with Chinese in the perimeter. The carbine failure were so common, the marines even checked over bodies to see what was going on. They did find woven vests under those frozen padded coats.
Word was passed down the line "men with carbines, aim for the head".
My own feeling is that it was an ammo issue. Ammo that spent WWII in the holds of hot transport ships and ammo dumps on islands, then was stored in Japan, finally issued for Korea.
Many Marines dumped their carbines and picked up Thompson SMGs the Chinese had, or M1 Garands from the dead and wounded.

The Marines used frozen Chinese bodies for sandbags. Why not? They had plenty, and it was easier than digging into the frozen ground.

Many veterans of that battle suffered from frostbite injuries for the rest of their lives...like a high school friends dad who was a navy corpman with the Marines at Chosin. Plasma had to be carried under the armpit to keep it liquid. Likewise, morphine ampules were carried in the mouth.
My friends dad went on to be a Cleveland cop, and served during the riots in the '60's. He carried an M1 Carbine during the riots, and kept it at home till he died
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Old September 13, 2017, 11:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
YouTube proves nothing.
In and of itself, no, YouTube does not 'prove anything.' It's a website.

However, a video on said website of a non-scientific test which I can view with my own eyes; that gives me solid information upon which to draw conclusions. Unsure how that would be debatable.
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Old September 16, 2017, 09:15 PM   #20
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Love the M1 Carbine For a short range defensive weapon I am quite content with mine...only about a dozen left out of a one time High of 50 in the collection but a smaller number is easier to feed.
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Old September 18, 2017, 08:08 AM   #21
tony pasley
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I carry a M-1 carbine with folding stock in a withers bag when trail riding in the back country of the mountains.
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Old September 22, 2017, 03:10 AM   #22
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ammo

Great post on the .30 carbine effectiveness by amd6547 regards ammo
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Old October 9, 2017, 08:10 AM   #23
Ibmikey
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I have shot several Texas hogs with one of mine and with correct shot placement and limited range they go down quite nicely.
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