Flintlock problems

[Robinson]

I'm getting lots of flash in the pan in my new brown bess. I'm priming with 4f. I've tried 3 grains, 6 grains and nothing seems to work. Has anyone put priming powder directly into the vent hole itself?

[noelf2]

You can, but you'll get slow ignition. Better than no ignition, but you may want to find out what the real problem is. Are you using real black powder in the pan and the bore (no substitutes like pyrodex, 777, bh209, etc...)? I don't know much about your gun, i.e. is it "new" or just new to you? Have you cleaned it, and picked the flash hole? If brand new, you may have some grease in the bore and clocking the flash hole. Who makes the gun (in case there are common problems)?

[Robinson]

Yes, real blackpowder Goex brand. It is a new pedersoli. I totally cleaned and wiped clean all grease. I've cleaned the vent hole clear every shot. I'm using tom fuller english flints.

[ligonierbill]

Don't put too much priming in the pan, just enough to barely fill it. Your flashhole may be too small. Get a tap handle and manually run a drill bit that just fits, than one just a little bigger if that doesn't do the trick. What charge are you running?

[Robinson]

I'm using 70 grains on the main charge for now.

[mehavey]

Out of curiosity, how did you clean the barrel ahead of time, and are you SURE that you have clean/dry/unfouled powder all the way down to/past the vent hole ?

Worse comes to worse, get one of these:
http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Shoo...arger/4225.uts
(IT works -- ask me how I know)



postscript:
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=551324
They are the bomb -- and very reliable when you check-6 on the powder-past-the-vent issue above)

postpostscript: Once you get the big problem figured out, just fill the pan to the point that the surface of the pan/powder is just level with the bottom of the vent hole, You want the flame front to dance through the vent, not burn its way through like a fuse.

[Model12Win]

I've not dealt a lot with flinters, but get yourself a vent pick. Also the hole might need to be drilled out. The military muskets do better with a larger hole. Hell, some models had a hole so big they were "self priming" as it were. Powder would come out the vent hole after loading the barrel and the flint would ignite it. I don't recommend that big a hole though because it can cause inaccurate shooting.

Do what someone else recommended and enlarge the hole slightly. Also don't flood the pan and do not cover the hole with powder! Put a layer down on the bottom of the pan, not too much.

[Hawg]

don't flood the pan and do not cover the hole with powder! Put a layer down on the bottom of the pan, not too much.

What he said.

[Robinson]

I swab the barrel with 2 dry patches to dry the bore before starting. Then I use a vent pick to clear out the vent. Maybe I have some bore butter still left in the gun. I'll do better job next time. Plus I will prime as mehavy states. Thanks for the help.

[Robinson]

Actually using a bore light I can see the very bottom of the barrel. It doesn't look smooth and I wonder if bore butter is somewhat stuck in the tiny crevices causing powder contamination.

[mehavey]

Pull the barrel (no big deal) and drop the vent end into a pot of hot water w/ a drop of liquid dish soap. Use a reasonably tight patch** to geeeently pump some soapy water in/out of the bottom of the barrel/vent (melt/dissolve any "bore butter").

From this point on, don't use bore butter or anything like it. If you patch the ball, use a lightly dampened "spit" patch -- nothing more.
Use a damp spit patch to cleaning between shots too. Nothing more.

Get a 75-caliber one of these and use it at the end of each shooting session
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/579/1 ***

If you don't already have it, get this (or a) non-rotating steel rod and **put a true 75-cal jag on it so as not to lose a patch down the barrel. This rod will also let you twist the scraper.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...RAMROD-C-29-10

(but get one of these anyway...)
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/WORM-CORK-10

You may already have this stuff and I'm preaching to a well-experienced choir...
...but it not, they save a lotta headache.




***Turn the barrel upside down after shooting and before putting any solvent/moose milk in it to clean the bore. Use the scraper to scrape the dry crud from the breech and it will fall out the muzzle like charcoal rain. Then you can clean normally. (Note: you can also put a patch over the end/on the scraper after that and it really cleans things up)

[l.cutler]

Are you just lubing patches with bore butter or coating the barrel after cleaning? Bore butter can be a good patch lube, but not so good as a rust preventative in the barrel. Ditch the Bore butter and I think you will be good.

[Old Stony]

Hard for me to imagine enough bore butter sitting against the breech to block the touch hole. I guess if a guy really slathered it on a patch and seated the ball...maybe. I use the common windex/murphy's mix to both clean the bore and lube patches, and it removes any bore butter or such from the bore. If a guy scrubs the bore and breech face with a mix like this and still has ignition problems, I would say the problem lies elsewhere.

[mehavey]

`Just went down and measured the position of the breech end in relation to the vent on my Pedersoli Bess. Using a marked cleaning rod, it comes out to 3/32 inch. (i.e., the vent ignites column very close to its end).

If bore butter or the like is used on a patch in cleaning/storing, it can/will build up on that square breech face -- layer by layer. and at 3/32, that layer's edge doesn't need to round up much to begin affecting vent ignition. This is especially the case if powder-burn products interact w/ the residual bore butter on the breech face to produce slowly-building sludge/goo bordering on concrete after awhile. Only a squared-faced scraper on a rod that can be twisted will cut through such sludge and clean the face off all the way out to the breech/vent edges will routinely prevent that. (and that same scraper can have a patch over it afterward to dry off the breech face.)

I again suggest the OP get/use these (if he doesn't already have them)
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/579/1 ***
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...RAMROD-C-29-10

[Robinson]

Nope I don't have those yet but will order those right away. I will also pull the barrel to clean it in hot soapy water. I was using bore butter to lube patches and using it as a final protectant/not anymore. I will spit lube my patches, however what kind of oil should I use to protect the bore during storage?

[Hawg]

what kind of oil should I use to protect the bore during storage?

I use Bore Butter but I do fire a blank charge to burn it out before I load it. By blank I don't mean a compressed charge with a wad. I don't try to get it to settle to the bottom. I just pour 30-40 grains down the bore and keeping the bore elevated set it off.

[mehavey]

I use plain old BreakFree/patch on the scraper head -- which acts like a standard jag when going up and down the barrel -- and then twist it around when at the end of the breech to coat the bottom.

Before firing I simply run a dry patch on the that same scraper/plug, twisting it around on the bottom to dry things out.

No blank charge req'd (which because it burns loosely, really leaves a lot of fouling).
Just charge the pan once, fire it off to clean out/burn off anything in the lock/vent interface... and go for it.

[Hawg]

No blank charge req'd (which because it burns loosely, really leaves a lot of fouling).

Dunno about a lot but it does leave some but it's not a problem. I don't like firing from a clean bore anyway. When the bore is clean that first shot is always off. That's with my percussion Hawken tho.

[Rookie21]

I shoot flint pistol about every week. Fill pan with 4F up to touch hole but do not cover it. When loading, I use a welding tip rod cleaner stuck in the touch hole. Once loaded I remove the "pin". This insures that my vent hole is clear of any carbon that may have been pushed into the touch hole while loading.

[bedbugbilly]

All great suggestions and hope you get it figured out. One thing to check is to make sure that your vent holes properly located - it should be at the top of the ban and not below - the priming charge should "jump up" and not "burn down".

You are using 4F for priming. Once you eliminate that you don't have a plugged vent, vent is proper size and location, etc. - switch to the powder you are using for your main charge. I'm assuming you are using 2F. Some may disatree but every gun is different and unique.

iMilitary muskets were loaded with paper wrapped cartridges, part of the main charge reserved for the priming. I know it may not make sense, but sometimes a coarser grade of real BP works better - especially in a large musket lock. I have a French Fusil-de-Chasse .62 smoothbore that has a large trade lock on it that I built. I don't know if your BB has a vent liner or not, but I have always used a vent liner when building flintlock that is recessed on the inside. When I first built it, I used 4F as priming - it shot Ok> and ignition was O.K. but then I tried some 2F that I used in my charge - directly from the same horn. I was amazed at how much quicker and better the ignition of the charge was. I've never gone back to 4F. I experienced the same thing on a Virginia Style rifle I built using a Durrs Egg lock - on that particular rifle (a .36 cal.) I found that the 3F of the main charge worked better in the pan than 4F.

Just a thought anti it isn't going to cost anything to try. Good luck!

[Robinson]

Fantastic advice I've gotten here. I'm waiting on the fouling scraper and better ramrod from track of the wolf. Bedbugbilly, yes I was using 2f and you make a good point about the military priming with the same powder with the paper cartridges. Next time I go out next Sunday Ill try a charge or two. I've only used modern inline muzzleloaders and to be honest with ya didn't realize the art form that goes into this. But should I get things together I plan on hunting everything with this musket from rabbits to deer.

[mehavey]

Sidelocks... and especially Flintlocks, put you in an exclusive club.

Walking onto a modern shooting range with a flintlock
musket designed/used more than 250 years ago is a bit
like bringing a pet dinosaur to a dog show

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by mehavey

Sidelocks... and especially Flintlocks, put you in an exclusive club.

Walking onto a modern shooting range with a flintlock
musket designed/used more than 250 years ago is a bit
like bringing a pet dinosaur to a dog show

+1

You shouldn't consider yourself a real muzzle loader unless you shoot a flintlock. They are the "bee's knees" as it were.

[B.L.E.]

what kind of oil should I use to protect the bore during storage?

Here's what I use.