Pietta 1863 Remington Pocket - Couple Questions

[johnm1]

So, I bought an 1863 Remington pocket revolver last weekend. "Another hole in your head" was what my boss said when I showed it to him. But I wanted one. I have no idea why though.

That said, I shot it this morning and have a couple of things I need to do to make it more than a single shot. First, the .310 round ball available at the local Sportsman's/Cabellas is too small to either cut a ring or even hold the ball remotely tight. I've read that people use .315-.319 round ball.

1. What are your recommendations for diameter of ball?

I can't find my calipers to measure but will as soon as I locate them.

Number 10 caps won't fit and #11's are difficult to push on all the way. As it is now, in order to ignite the cap it takes 2 hammer strikes. One to seat the cap and then one to ignite it. Using an empty chamber I can successfully push them on with enough force so they will ignite mostly reliably. But I'm concerned about pushing that hard on a cap on a loaded cylinder. It just seems like a bad idea. Maybe I'm being overly conservative but I don't want an accident. In reality to put them on hard enough for reliable ignition it takes a tool of some sort. I've read on the internet that some will reduce the diameter of the nipples by sanding so the caps fit better.

2. Is that a realistic thing to do?

The gun seems to either never been fired or fired once and cleaned really well. It is reasonably accurate. Shoots high like everybody reports, but even with balls of varying degrees of tightness held a decent group at 7 yards.

[rodwhaincamo]

I've often seen that a ball of .320" or larger is better as the chambers are way too small for the bore and that giving it longer bearing surfaces adds to what can obturate. Check out how just increasing the ball size effected it:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

I've also read of people using buck shot as it's cheaper.

Are you using CCI caps? I don't have a .31 Remington but my NMA .44 works great with Rem #10's. My ROA has ToTW nipples that state are designed for standard (non magnum) CCI #11's but I can't find those and see the Rem #10's do work great. I'd try one of those.

I've read of people slowly sanding nipples to make them work with a type of cap.

I push the caps on by hand. Haven't had an issue. It's said caps take a heavy strike to ignite, that pressure won't do it.

[rodwhaincamo]

Oh, and I've been a bit enamored with them (steel frame) also. But it's quite low on my list of needs.

[johnm1]

Thanks.

It looks like single-aught buckshot measures .320. I've read others using .319 and buckshot. I can give that a try. I can also use that to test a Colt Lightning in 32-20 that is shot out and would need a .320 bullet to reach the grooves.


I looked at these several years ago when they were $150 for the brass frame. But never did it. The brass one goes for close to $250 now and the only ones I've seen at shows were more expensive than new. Got this one for $180.

It seems that the smallest diameter of the cylinders is at the leading edge. With the .310 balls I can feel a slight resistance as the largest diameter of the ball contacts the leading edge of the cylinder but once in the cylinder the ball rolls free. So the inside of the chambers/cylinder is larger than the leading edge.

Do others see this and is that normal?

[johnm1]

That was a very interesting article.

From http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

The testing of the .31 pocket pistol emphasizes the importance of a tight fit.
Using Zero Buck which is .32 cal is a very good and cheap option.

(Edit to remove most of the text copied previously).

[johnm1]

The #11 caps I was using were Remington. The #10's that didn't fit were CCI. I'll see if I can find some CCI #11's before I do anything permanent.

[rodwhaincamo]

Or Rem #10's. Those seem easy enough to find.

Odd that the leading edge would be a smaller diameter.

If I ever buy one I'll slug the bore and open up the chambers close to that.

[Model12Win]

I believe The Preacher carried one.

Nuff said.

[johnm1]

Pale Rider?

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by johnm1

Pale Rider?

If it's good enough for The Preacher (Eastwood), it's good enough for OP (or anybody).

[johnm1]

Hah....... I got the reference. I never get the reference.

It will be fun once I get the ball size and cap issues fixed. Wasn't much fun shooting it as a single shot. Give you a clue of how small the .310 balls were. First time firing so I started loading a single chamber, then loaded two chambers. I never got to load three chambers as the second ball would fall out when I fired the first round.

[rodwhaincamo]

Did your 2nd chamber not ignite also when the ball rolled out?

[rodwhaincamo]

Oh, I've also read that the loading lever assembly is rather weak and has broken on at least one person's pistol. Make sure any projectile you use is near pure lead.

What powder charge were you using?

[Hawg]

Buckshot is going to be too hard. A lot of people use the hammer to seat the caps. Caps won't fire from pressure. You can put them in a vise and tighten them as hard as you can and they won't fire.

[johnm1]

The second chamber didn't fire. Used a greased wad over 12.5 Grains of Pyrodex FFFG. I was still experimenting when I began loading single shot.

I had read about th weak loading lever and don't have a loading block. So I tried to use a wad to push deeper. I understand that the loading lever is only long enough to push the ball flush no matter how hard you push. Although I measured the powder charge (depth) I wasn't sure the 12.5 grains plus wad plus ball would be the correct depth. Experimenting ended pretty quick though.

(Edited for fat fingers on my phone).

[johnm1]

Glad you chimed in Hawg. I assumed buckshot would be pure lead. I can look for .315 - .320 lead balls. I bet Track of th Wolf has something.

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by johnm1

Glad you chimed in Hawg. I assumed buckshot would be pure lead. I can look for .315 - .320 lead balls. I bet Track of th Wolf has something.

I bet they do, too.

I love Track, just not sure what they have to do with wolves.

[johnm1]

I always end up spending a lot more than I intended to whenever I go to their website. I can always use some more 58 caliber minnie balls and 69 caliber round balls. Although I have never bought one, I drool when I look at their kits.

[Hawg]

I assumed buckshot would be pure lead.

I think hardness varies from brand to brand but it all has antimony in it. I know some of it tests at 14 BHN which is right there with clip on wheel weights.

[johnm1]

I'll find the appropriate size pure lead ball. I'd prefer not to break the loading lever. I expect I'll buy a loading block while I'm at Track.

[TruthTellers]

Hornady makes a .315" ball, it's a cheap option to try. I think Cabela's has it in their stores, if not, they have it online. Midway too.

If that's not satisfactory, Dixie gun works makes a .318 or .319 ball. Shipping will set u back a lot.

Final option is 0 Buck. I don't know if the lead is harder than black powder balls are, but it probably is. That will make it tougher to seat the ball with that stubby lever that I heard can break easily.

I had considered getting one of these a couple years ago, but decided that the oversize ball and chambers and everything else wasn't worth it and I didn't want to spend that much money on an inaccurate gun. I'd rather spend the money on an 1862 pocket made by Uberti and buy a spare barrel and chop it down. .375" balls and conicals will work just fine and those are easy as cake to find.

[johnm1]

I need to find my calipers and measure the chambers. I swear they are smaller at the mouth ( leading edge ). I really don't care what size ball I have to use. So long as it is larger than the bore diameter when it leaves the chamber.

[swathdiver]

Who made that one? Pietta or ASM? Palmetto used a different front sight.

A .315 or smaller round ball is a rifle ball, not for a cap and ball revolver.

.319 is the bare minimum for a Pietta made gun. .320 and .321 are better.

They are a pain to continually reload on the gun.

They disappear in a pocket and shoot way high.

Loaded too lightly, the rounds can bounce off steel or wood target stands and come back at you! We use 9-10 grains of 4F, that's all that fits under the ball of our Palmetto.

[roashooter]

It seems that the smallest diameter of the cylinders is at the leading edge. With the .310 balls I can feel a slight resistance as the largest diameter of the ball contacts the leading edge of the cylinder but once in the cylinder the ball rolls free. So the inside of the chambers/cylinder is larger than the leading edge.

I have encountered this on a couple of bp revolvers....so I used a RCBS chamfering tool to lightly chamfer the chambers...bringing the opening to the same size(dia) of the chambers. Loading ease was much more consistent, the balls had no more creep when firing, really improved the revolver.

[johnm1]

That is a Pietta. I was unaware that .315 and smaller were for rifles.

Interesting idea using the chamfer tool. I need to measure/slug before I do anything.

Thanks.