July 16, 2017, 04:27 AM | #1 |
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Are these cases ruined?
Hi. Quick question, are these cases damaged from heat? I tried drying them in the oven at 185f for 30min. I'll attach some pictures. I though I'd try the oven drying on a few before a whole batch(glad I did)
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July 16, 2017, 04:45 AM | #2 |
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Someone else can comment on heat damage.
Here is your answer. Less than $20. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Corn...QAAOSw-3FZM4Oc https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...g+tray&_sop=15 . load on cookie sheet, dial in medium temp, let it sit. You can also use a coffee pot warmer and round cake pans. If you have to, put a tile over the coffee hot plate to hold the heat down a bit.
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July 16, 2017, 04:54 AM | #3 |
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That should be OK .Serious annealing starts at about 450 F .185 is in the stress relieving temps.
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July 16, 2017, 05:34 AM | #4 |
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My dehydrator's max temp is about 185 and that is what I use to dry my brass (and jerky) ... should be fine.
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July 16, 2017, 05:55 AM | #5 |
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Darn, the pictures didn't post.
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July 16, 2017, 06:04 AM | #6 |
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Thanks for the feedback. The brass is kind of shiny with a hint of blue on the side touching the glass tray they were in.
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July 16, 2017, 06:48 AM | #7 |
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At 185 you're not even a bad day on a tank deck in the Iraqi summer sun.
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July 16, 2017, 09:43 AM | #8 |
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A dehydrator would work well. Is it smaller than a can and a hot plate for a coffee pot? If size matters, either way will provide enough low heat to dry a load of brass. The l o w temp dehydrator would be slower, I think.
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July 16, 2017, 09:48 AM | #9 |
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I have given up on reloaders understanding before and again after. When reloaders decide to form cases for a chamber they do not have cases for they choose cases they do not need. It matters not that there is such a thing as a bad choice. A bad choice would be a case that has been work hardened.
Work hardened cases are difficult to neck up, I know, there are expanders that make it easier, that does not change the fact the cases are worked hardened. In the perfect world forming cases start with new/unfired cases and then there are once fired. POINT? ! Before drying your cases you did not determine how easy and or difficult the case necks were to neck up, you did not save cases for comparison after drying. If your cases had been damaged by too much heat the case necks would have soften meaning the cases would be easier to form and or size. I am the fan of rules and factors. When it comes to heat and drying I believe it is a bad habit. I dry cases with heat but I control the temperature with pressure, I can not get water hotter than 212 degree at sea level and then there is that part when I find it necessary to dry cases with heat. I clean the worst of cases with acid, I have increased the amount of time required by reducing the percentage of acid. Heat could be hidden, my heat is hidden in the water when I rinse. I try to rinse twice, again, the rinse water has a maximum temperature of 212 at sea level. When it comes to heating the case I avoid heating the case head with the exception of rinsing, one more time, if I rinse with water and I heat the water at sea lever and I do not use a pressure cooker when heating the water the temperature should max out at 212 degree unless I am in the center of a hurricane. F. Guffey |
July 16, 2017, 10:33 AM | #10 |
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Thread drift can either be entertaining or boring. The OP just asked if 185 degrees for 30 minutes would ruin his brass...
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July 16, 2017, 10:50 AM | #11 |
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I truly doubt it. Pm jeep hammer.
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July 16, 2017, 10:57 AM | #12 |
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I don't think 185 would harm brass no matter how long you left it...
All kinds of brass parts that work at those temps and still function for years without issues. Brass pressure bellows comes to mind immediately, and a ton of brass springs. |
July 16, 2017, 11:06 AM | #13 | |
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mikid, I understand I will never please your with my answers, I do believe I can explain to the OP methods and or techniques he should have understood before he threw the cases into the oven, closed the over and then turned on the heat.
I do not want you to misunderstand, I honestly believe reloaders are coming up with many cute little ways of annealing, sizing etc. One saying invented by internet reloaders is the one about bumping the shoulder, that one goes beyond cute to silly. Quote:
F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; July 16, 2017 at 11:55 AM. Reason: add e |
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July 16, 2017, 12:17 PM | #14 |
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Mr. Guffey: You have drifted well off the OP question and topic
He was DRYING brass not annealing, not asking about moving his shoulders back and saluting. |
July 16, 2017, 12:58 PM | #15 |
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Your cases are fine. 185 F isn't hot enough to do anything but dry 'em really well and make 'em really hot to the touch. 15 minutes is plenty. And another 15 for 'em to cool.
When you get to drying a bunch of cases, use a cookie sheet. A foil one from a dollar store will do nicely. Gets more done at once. "...pictures didn't post..." Easiest is to use one of the free picture posting sites and post a link.
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July 16, 2017, 12:58 PM | #16 |
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Jeep hammer, I really should have thought of that myself, all of the brass fittings in high temperature engines would be running at hundreds of degrees.
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July 16, 2017, 02:17 PM | #17 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I believe it is cute to dry cases in the over, again I believe drying cases in the over is a bad habit, again, I do not want to heat the head of the case. When I decided to anneal cases I did a little research, I decided there were rules and factors, there is nothing complicated about annealing. That is my opinion, I understand there has to be 10 miles of responses on annealing, it seems with all of the responses posted on this forum the OP should have been able to find enough information in the annealing threads to answer his own question. Problem, the answers are still coming and we do not know why he stuck his cases in the over and he does not understand why I rinse cases in boiling water. F. Guffey |
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July 16, 2017, 05:00 PM | #18 |
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I use a food dehydration device I picked up at Wally world on the cheap. Cases are dry quickly. If it's a really big batch, like a few thousand, I air dry them for 3-4 days.
But to the op Question. I have dried them in the oven many times. 200 degrees for 1 hour. Annealing begins around 450.....200 degrees for several hours would do nothing to your brass. And the funny color means you have harder water, or used too much lemneshine. |
July 16, 2017, 05:36 PM | #19 |
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Brass fittings would be a different issue,
What about the brass diaphragm in an EGR valve that works for 40 years without giving up? Easily 200 degree operating temps under the hood and EGR valves normally give up because the plunger carbons up or the iron/steel parts rust together. Every single one of the old shop air compressors had a brass spring in the overpressure valves, couple hundred degree discharge air temp, still working 70 or 80 years later. Some pressure canners from the turn of the century into the 70s had brass springs in the overpressure valves and still work fine. I check my canners (some dating back to the turn of the century) every year before using them and the spring pressure hasn't been effected by the years of use or the heat involved, over 250*F. for 100 years! People wonder why I make 'Widgets' in my shop for 'Obsolete' equipment, it works another 100+ years when the design is good and the parts are QUALITY! Let's see 'China' do that! |
July 16, 2017, 07:43 PM | #20 |
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China provided the motor of my coffee grinder with brushes exactly as long as it would take them to wear out in a year. Granted, my dremel has worn out a few, but they are replaceable.
That's what's nice about guns. No circuitry.
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July 17, 2017, 08:48 AM | #21 |
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The only difference between a brass cartridge case and a brass spring is that the brass spring isn't holding back upwards 60,000 PSI of face-rearranging powder gas.
If the brass spring or diaphragm fails it's generally not that big of an issue. If a cartridge case fails, it might not be an issue at all (neck split), or it might be one of the most memorable days of your life (case head failure). That said, 185 deg. F isn't high enough to start the annealing process, which begins around 500 deg. F. At that temperature it takes (from what I'm finding) an hour or more for the physical structure to being annealing. I dry my cases by spreading them on an old bed sheet in front of my dehumidifier in the basement and leaving them for a couple of days. Never had an issue.
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July 17, 2017, 09:27 AM | #22 | |
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Quote:
Because I am not hard headed I could have been loading those cases in two hours, that is the time required to clean those cases in vinegar but there is a problem with vinegar. I insist on rinsing cases after 15 minutes in vinegar, and then there comes that 'and then' moment. After rinsing and drying there is a residue left on the cases, because I do not want anything between the case and chamber but air there is no room for residue. What does that mean? I tumble after rinsing. F. Guffey |
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July 17, 2017, 10:05 AM | #23 |
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Mr. Guffy,
Did you consider using a base (like baking soda) to nutralize the acid (vinegar)? A lot of metals are cleaned/polished with calcium carbonate and calcium bicarbonate, can't see where it would hurt to use that as a tumbling medium in the first place. Dirt cheap (pun intended!). |
July 17, 2017, 10:23 AM | #24 |
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Quite often, newer reloaders asking simple questions are flooded with advanced techniques or theories in long rambling posts that may or may not pertain to the original question. I would much rather see a simple question answered simply and then, if the OP asks, advanced processes/theories can be explained. Otherwise confusion is the only thing some of these answers supply...
(Brass temperature thread has morphed into "cleaning, polishing, processing and brass springs" "discussion" )
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July 17, 2017, 10:52 AM | #25 | |
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Quote:
Also, be aware that the temperature inside a household oven is not consistent because of convection within the oven cavity. I don't use an oven to dry brass, I simply set it on a towel in the sun. But, if you are going to use an oven to dry brass, use it on its lowest heat setting, use a metal cookie sheet/banking pan, line the bottom of the pan with parchment paper and remove the brass about every five minutes and agitate the pan to ensure a different part of the case is contacting the cookie sheet/baking pan. |
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