June 18, 2012, 11:20 PM | #2251 |
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Re this entire rotten business, the following comes to mind.
1. Obama is full of it. 2. Ditto Holder. 3. Ditto the "ATF" 4. Ditto the "news media", with very few exceptions. 5. Lest I forget, Ditto the Democratic Republican leadership. Have I overlooked any salient factors? |
June 19, 2012, 06:35 AM | #2252 | |
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June 19, 2012, 08:11 AM | #2253 | |
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From #2239...
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He is quick to come forward with opinion based in truth as far as I can see of him... Brent |
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June 19, 2012, 10:40 AM | #2254 |
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You can go back a year before this story broke and find instances where Holder, Panetta, Mexico's President and others were blaming the border state gun shops for providing a channel for cartels to get guns and ammo. This was clearly a setup to undermined the second amendment. If they had not done such a poor job we would be seeing these same gun store owners on trial right now.
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June 19, 2012, 10:42 AM | #2255 |
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Interesting Development
Sipsey Street Irregulars is reporting that Agent Jaime Zapata (the ICE Agent murdered in Mexico) had filled out a Report of Investigation dated August 2010 in which he indicated he was investigating the smuggling of weapons from Phoenix, AZ and San Antonio, TX. He described 80 weapons seized in interdiction (50 of which belonged to Fast & Furious).
Source: http://www.examiner.com/article/blog...ast-and-furiou On February 15, 2011, a few months after the Fast & Furious story broke and about a month after the first inquiry from Congress, Jaime Zapata was murdered at a fake roadblock ambush. At least one of the weapons recovered at the scene was traced to an El Paso firearms trafficking ring that ATF had been watching for at least six months prior to the shooting (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_1...in;contentBody) However, one reason this is bigger news is that when Janet Napolitano was questioned by Congress about DHS's role in Fast and Furious and whether the Zapata murder was linked to this, she testified "“I have no information to that effect, no. I don’t know one way or the other." If the Agent who had been murdered had filled out a Report of Investigation that dealt with 50 recovered Fast and Furious weapons, that would seem to be the type of link that Congress might expect to be informed of. Apparently this particular piece of paperwork came to Congress through whatever network of insiders is helping expose the higher ups in DOJ and DHS. |
June 19, 2012, 11:18 AM | #2256 | |
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A second Fast and Furious gun was linked to the Jaime Zapata murder: Peddled by a second gun runner being watched by the BATFE. The family of Zapata was not informed that Manuel Barba was prosecuted.
http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/2...rder-turns-up/ Quote:
Last edited by thallub; June 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM. |
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June 19, 2012, 12:07 PM | #2257 |
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Janet Napolitano testimony before House Homeland Security commitee
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Secreta...10737428328-1/
At 39 minutes Michael McCaul brings up the Jaime Zapata murder. Rep Patrick Meehan brings up F&F again at 1:14 and trys to get at the existence of reports. Ed Hammel was the ICE agent assigned to F&F. There were some rumors, that Ed raised objections to gun walsking and he was replaced by Layne France. I think there must be some records on Ed's work. He must have filed reports I would think. I find it hard to beleive that those reports never went to Janet Napolitano. She did have the information. Napolitano's only defense would be the Holder defense "I didn't read the memo." Last edited by Luger_carbine; June 19, 2012 at 12:42 PM. |
June 19, 2012, 01:56 PM | #2258 | |
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June 19, 2012, 04:27 PM | #2259 |
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NRA members may be an important factor in the contempt proceedings
http://video.foxnews.com/v/169690558...t-eric-holder/
William La Jeunesse mentions that the NRA wants the contempt vote to move forward and may factor it in the grades it assigns representatives. |
June 19, 2012, 04:44 PM | #2260 |
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My bet is (While the meeting is supposed to be underway) there will be few if any documents and the ones selected will not reveal anything we dont already know about... The good old washington two step, round and round we go...
Mr. Holder might as well plead the 5th due to his potential criminal conduct and take the contempt and move on.. I dont think Mr. Holder will fold, contempt or not, he seems to feel superior and its about ideals with him (IMHO) not laws and certainly not about the constitution.. And as a After meeting Edit - yes I was right he turned over absolutely nothing.... Dont know how this problem gets solved but obviously for this level of stonewalling something bad must be in the documents requested.. Might be anything from mild inappropriate conduct to who knows....
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June 19, 2012, 05:11 PM | #2261 |
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Fox News pundits have started calling him Eric Witholder.
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June 19, 2012, 10:40 PM | #2262 | |
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June 20, 2012, 12:51 AM | #2263 |
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Very sad.
Although I'm curious as to how the prosecutors do sentencing... |
June 20, 2012, 12:59 AM | #2264 |
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The 17,000 member National Border Patrol Council is calling for Holder's resignation.
Good interview with George McCubbin III on Cam and Company. VIDEO LINK
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June 20, 2012, 07:54 AM | #2265 | |
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June 20, 2012, 08:28 AM | #2266 |
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That is a good interview with George McCubbin III.
Does anyone know if they poll their membership or if the members vote on something like this, or is it just a decision that the National Border Patrol Council leadership makes? |
June 20, 2012, 09:11 AM | #2267 |
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Obama invokes executive privilege over DOJ documents
and Obama Grants Holder Request for Executive Privilege on 'Fast and Furious' Documents This should get VERY interesting. |
June 20, 2012, 09:16 AM | #2268 |
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Obama just gave Holder Executive Privilege on this...The Obama administration must really be dirty on this whole F&F thing, I would have guessed Obama throws Holder under the bus long ago but I guess the expanse of this whole F&F thing must be much deeper into his Administration than Holder.
I really hope that politicians in Washington have the fortitude to call Obama out on this, to demand answers in a case where Americans have died because of numerous government screw ups. Last edited by Tom Servo; June 20, 2012 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Language |
June 20, 2012, 09:38 AM | #2269 |
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OK, how does the legal system get around this "Executive Privilege" issue?
Does a lawsuit get filed? Do we need to get Agent Terry's family to file a criminal complaint against A.G. Holder or even President Obama? How do the people get justice here?
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June 20, 2012, 09:51 AM | #2270 |
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I am trying to make sense out of this decision.
Up till now there has not been enough concrete evidence to tie the president directly to F&F. By exerting executive privledge, President Obama has tied himself directly to F&F. It only makes sense if the documents contain evidence that is so damaging to Holder that it forces his ouster AND having his AG resign damages the president to the extent that it ruins his re-election chances or The documents contain evidence that tie the president directly to F&F and either are grounds for impeachment or are so damaging that it ruins his re-election chances. Axelrod is supposedly one of the most politically astute advisors in the country. It leads me to believe that the documents are extremely damaging to this administration. I think this also tips the scales in the contempt proceedings. People who wanted to negotiate and head off a confrontation have just had the rug yanked out from under them. The adminstration has basically slapped the House of Representatives in the face. President Obama has thrown down the gauntlet. I also think it changes some attitudes in the GOP. I think they smell blood in the water now, just my opinion. |
June 20, 2012, 10:13 AM | #2271 |
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As far as asserting Executive Privilege, it basically just means that there will be one more legal layer to dig through before the conflict can be resolved.
For all practical purposes, it will not be possible to resolve this issue before the November elections unless the parties suddenly come to an agreement after having failed to do so (or really even attempt it) several previous times. At this point, I almost think the Democrats welcome the contempt vote. They are going to play it as politically motivated (as evidenced by comments from Rep. Elijah Cummings, Sen. Pat Leahy, and now the President) and hope that it distracts people from some of the other issues where they are doing poorly in public opinion. Based on past examples, they can easily delay this past the November elections, so if they were the only source of the documents, then it makes sense to sit on them. The wildcard is that there is clearly one or more people who are handing over sensitive documents to the Oversight Committee. If those people hand over something earth-shattering (or have already done so), then this strategy could blow up in the Administration's face very quickly. Barring something like that, I would guess you'll see a Oversight Committee vote that falls on party lines. After that, they will attempt to negotiate/stall again and you'll see a floor vote in the House with a few Democratic crossovers. After that vote, the House will recommend it to DOJ for prosecution. DOJ will investigate as long as they can and then decline prosecution. The House will file a civil contempt motion and the whole thing will go to court, where it will easily drag out past November. |
June 20, 2012, 10:20 AM | #2272 | |
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A couple of definitions:
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Invoking the privilege at this late date does tend to link the White House to any supposed cover-up. |
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June 20, 2012, 11:02 AM | #2273 |
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How can the White House assert executive privilege on items it has denied any knowledge of?
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June 20, 2012, 11:04 AM | #2274 | ||
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Let's remember that the President was making denials about F&F in a Univision interview in February of 2011, while the Attorney General claimed not to have heard about it until April or so. However, the documents being witheld involve internal discussions since then, and I wonder if the committe doesn't have enough evidence to go forward already.
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June 20, 2012, 11:41 AM | #2275 | |
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Practically, it mean Obama and Holder have won. Boehner will kill the whole investigation. The alleged "rule of law" is now dead in this country because it officially does not apply to the rulers.
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