Effective 870 police work

Tom2 · December 10, 2004, 03:16 PM

I read today in the Columbus paper, that the nutbar that shot the guitarist at the Col. concert, and went nuts, was useing a 9MM Beretta. He thought the band stole his songs! Wrote them off an album onto a notepad and thought they were his! But the arriving Columbus officer responded to the smallbore shooter with a decisive advantage-One blast from a police Rem. 870 from 20 feet! Nice gun for the money. Who cannot afford such inexpensive but formidable life insurance?

Greg Bell · December 10, 2004, 07:54 PM

Ah the ol' 12 gauge Hamburger helper! Gotta love it.

Tom2 · December 11, 2004, 06:15 PM

I heard today that it was a head shot with the 870 at 20 feet. Heard the officer had special training of some sort about how to terminate this kind of conflict abruptly without much discussion. Wonder when they decided to shift from center of mass shooting, or was this officer just showing initiative?

NSO_w/_SIG · December 11, 2004, 06:19 PM

Buck Shot I am assuming?

Tom2 · December 12, 2004, 02:03 PM

I assume it was, as they did not say anything about slugs or searching for the bad guys head! :barf:

Bob Freddy · December 13, 2004, 12:37 AM

They do some training with head shots in case someone is wearing some armor.
Handgun- 2 to the body, 1 to the head. Shotgun- just go for the HEAD

Was glad to read someone showed up that could put a quick end to the situation.

BOB

gordo b. · December 13, 2004, 10:53 AM

He musta gone to Louis Awerbuck shotty class as the chief said "the best training of this type available"

abelew · December 13, 2004, 05:37 PM

I would imagine that a HS with buck at 20 yds is a helluva lot easier than hitting center mass with a pistol, just aim a bit and shoot.

NSO_w/_SIG · December 13, 2004, 07:49 PM

Yup just aim at the upper chest area and you cant go wrong, from my experience at that range with buckshot you will end up with serval pellets in the head region.

gordo b. · December 13, 2004, 08:21 PM

Perp was holding hostage in Head lock at his side, prolly was a slug-any bets?

Tom2 · December 14, 2004, 07:33 PM

I was assuming they carried buck on duty, how long would it take to access the situation and change loads in a Remington? I heard he let go of the hostage or something so they had clearance to shoot, but how big of a group are we talking at that distance anyway?

GunsnRovers · December 14, 2004, 07:43 PM

20 feet is pretty darn close. I can get 8~9" groups at 15 yards using Federal 00 buck and that's over twice the distance away. I think you're talking about one big hole at 20'. I have never shot a target that close before.

What cracks me up is the folks that buy shotguns thinking you don't have to aim them.

EricO · December 20, 2004, 05:44 AM

Around 20 ft/7 yds, I believe my inexpensive training round (S&B 00buck) can place them close enough to cover completely with my hand curled into a fist, say smaller than a 4" group, perhaps smaller (it's been awhile). This from a Rem870 stock Marine Mag barrel, Improved Cylinder I think.

I don't know the situation at the time of the shot, but one thing that may have been prudent would be going to one knee quickly, or lower oneself so that any shot, missed or penetrated, could possibly avoid anyone behind the target.

EricO

Old NFO · December 20, 2004, 10:18 PM

At 20 feet/7 yds the pattern should be 3-4" in diameter. Sounds like this officer had done the patterning and knew what his window of effectiveness was. Also, no chance of a miss at that range and "instant" cessitation of the BG's intentions. I'm guessing here, but I'd bet the officer never even unholstered the pistol. One look, instant situation analysis and one shot. I watched a VA State Trooper trying to find a good 00 round for his 870 last weekend. He had 5-6 different manufacturers rounds and was shooting at 5, 10 and 15 yards. The S&B he was using was lousy- 4" at 5 yds, 6-7" at 10 yds, only 6 pellets on the target at 15 yds.

Bob Freddy · December 20, 2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

The S&B he was using was lousy- 4" at 5 yds, 6-7" at 10 yds, only 6 pellets on the target at 15 yds.

I also had bad results with the S&B 00 in my 870. I tried the same ammo in my buddies mossberg and had even worse results. At 25 yards out I can hit 2 or 3 BG's with a few pellets each

.

Now, on the other end of the spectrum is the Winchester low recoil 00. Nice tight patterns in the 870. I actually did a headshot at 7 yards that made a perfect happy face. 2 eyes and 7 pellets in a perfect smile! I wish I had saved the target or taken a picture of it.

I am sure if the LEO was using buckshot he had some high quality "duty" ammo. Maybe even a VANG-COMPED barrel!

Damn tight pattern @ 25 yards.

BOB

December 10, 2004, 03:16 PM	#1
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Effective 870 police work I read today in the Columbus paper, that the nutbar that shot the guitarist at the Col. concert, and went nuts, was useing a 9MM Beretta. He thought the band stole his songs! Wrote them off an album onto a notepad and thought they were his! But the arriving Columbus officer responded to the smallbore shooter with a decisive advantage-One blast from a police Rem. 870 from 20 feet! Nice gun for the money. Who cannot afford such inexpensive but formidable life insurance?

December 10, 2004, 07:54 PM	#2
Greg Bell Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,053	Ah the ol' 12 gauge Hamburger helper! Gotta love it. __________________ Correct anwers to gun questions to save time... Carry: j-frame Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2

December 11, 2004, 06:15 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	New info on shot I heard today that it was a head shot with the 870 at 20 feet. Heard the officer had special training of some sort about how to terminate this kind of conflict abruptly without much discussion. Wonder when they decided to shift from center of mass shooting, or was this officer just showing initiative?

December 12, 2004, 02:03 PM	#5
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I don't know..... I assume it was, as they did not say anything about slugs or searching for the bad guys head! :barf:

December 13, 2004, 05:37 PM	#8
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	I would imagine that a HS with buck at 20 yds is a helluva lot easier than hitting center mass with a pistol, just aim a bit and shoot. __________________ "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." ~ Mohatma Gandhi

December 11, 2004, 06:19 PM	#4
NSO_w/_SIG Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 553	Buck Shot I am assuming?

December 13, 2004, 12:37 AM	#6
Bob Freddy Member Join Date: June 26, 2004 Location: Far SS Chicago Posts: 84	They do some training with head shots in case someone is wearing some armor. Handgun- 2 to the body, 1 to the head. Shotgun- just go for the HEAD Was glad to read someone showed up that could put a quick end to the situation. BOB

December 13, 2004, 10:53 AM	#7
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	He musta gone to Louis Awerbuck shotty class as the chief said "the best training of this type available"

December 13, 2004, 07:49 PM	#9
NSO_w/_SIG Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 553	Yup just aim at the upper chest area and you cant go wrong, from my experience at that range with buckshot you will end up with serval pellets in the head region.

December 13, 2004, 08:21 PM	#10
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	Perp was holding hostage in Head lock at his side, prolly was a slug-any bets?

December 14, 2004, 07:33 PM	#11
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Buckshot? I was assuming they carried buck on duty, how long would it take to access the situation and change loads in a Remington? I heard he let go of the hostage or something so they had clearance to shoot, but how big of a group are we talking at that distance anyway?

December 14, 2004, 07:43 PM	#12
GunsnRovers Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 781	20 feet is pretty darn close. I can get 8~9" groups at 15 yards using Federal 00 buck and that's over twice the distance away. I think you're talking about one big hole at 20'. I have never shot a target that close before. What cracks me up is the folks that buy shotguns thinking you don't have to aim them. __________________ Jeff The reason we're all here is that we're not all there.

December 20, 2004, 05:44 AM	#13
EricO Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Posts: 124	Around 20 ft/7 yds, I believe my inexpensive training round (S&B 00buck) can place them close enough to cover completely with my hand curled into a fist, say smaller than a 4" group, perhaps smaller (it's been awhile). This from a Rem870 stock Marine Mag barrel, Improved Cylinder I think. I don't know the situation at the time of the shot, but one thing that may have been prudent would be going to one knee quickly, or lower oneself so that any shot, missed or penetrated, could possibly avoid anyone behind the target. EricO

December 20, 2004, 10:18 PM	#14
Old NFO Junior Member Join Date: December 20, 2004 Posts: 8	You're right Erico At 20 feet/7 yds the pattern should be 3-4" in diameter. Sounds like this officer had done the patterning and knew what his window of effectiveness was. Also, no chance of a miss at that range and "instant" cessitation of the BG's intentions. I'm guessing here, but I'd bet the officer never even unholstered the pistol. One look, instant situation analysis and one shot. I watched a VA State Trooper trying to find a good 00 round for his 870 last weekend. He had 5-6 different manufacturers rounds and was shooting at 5, 10 and 15 yards. The S&B he was using was lousy- 4" at 5 yds, 6-7" at 10 yds, only 6 pellets on the target at 15 yds. __________________ Old NFO "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand, pretzels in the other -- body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming - WOO HOO! What a ride!" Illegitimi Non Carborundum