Best "surrogate" for pistol training

OhioGuy · October 4, 2016, 02:20 PM

I've found a lot of realistic replica BB guns that cycle the slide and generally work the way real pistols would. I found a M&P replica at cabela that feels like the rea thing.

Such a gun, for just about $100 and some cheap BB ammo, seems like it would afford a lot of cheap target practice. But is it realistic enough? I could also shoot at home, even in my garage or basement.

My other thought was to get a .22lr pistol (probably also an M&P) for range use where I can get 2:1 advantage in ammo quantity for the cost vs 9mm. That's about a $360 investment in a gun.

Or I could just shoot 9mm and look for ammo sales where I can and figure the cost of another gun is better spent on ammo or classes!

In the future I'd like to take some tactical training where ammo needs are 500+ rounds in a day, and that's where I'd take the price savings of .22 much more seriously.

Thoughts and experiences?

Lohman446 · October 4, 2016, 02:26 PM

With a pistol as long as you are not shooting at ranges that require elevating the sights I doubt it really matters. That being said there is some concern that cycling between too many substantially different firearms may influence muscle memory in the event of using one under stress

FITASC · October 4, 2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

My other thought was to get a .22lr pistol (probably also an M&P) for range use where I can get 2:1 advantage in ammo quantity for the cost vs 9mm. That's about a $360 investment in a gun.

Or I could just shoot 9mm and look for ammo sales where I can and figure the cost of another gun is better spent on ammo or classes!

OR, you could learn to reload 9mm for about the cost of .22.....just sayin'

OhioGuy · October 4, 2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

OR, you could learn to reload 9mm for about the cost of .22.....just sayin'

Yeah really! I would like to. However every range within an hour of me prohibits any reloaded ammo.

aarondhgraham · October 4, 2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

In the future I'd like to take some tactical training where ammo needs are 500+ rounds in a day, and that's where I'd take the price savings of .22 much more seriously.

Will any of the tactical training centers allow the use of a .22 pistol?

I asked that place in Nevada if I could use my CZ-75B Kadet,,,
They said no, they only allow centerfire pistols.

Now having said that, I'm a proponent of matching rimfire/centerfire guns,,,
But I learned very quickly that you need to shoot the centerfire as often as the rimfire.

My routine is five cylinders of rimfire and one cylinder of centerfire,,,
Or five 10 round mags of rimfire and a 16 round mag of 9mm.

I'm still saving a little bit on ammo,,,
And my wrist doesn't get as fatigued.

Aarond

.

MarkCO · October 4, 2016, 03:19 PM

Look into airsoft. Many top pistol shooters train with airsoft. Mix that with dry-fire on your actual pistol and you will have the vast majority of what you can do without using live fire.

When it comes to retention and takeaway drills, better to use a dummy gun, usually one without a trigger guard so you don't break fingers.

mavracer · October 4, 2016, 04:33 PM

Got an option for all the above.

gunnre · October 4, 2016, 05:46 PM

Bored of semi retirement this summer I found myself a job 15 mins north up the Interstate. Halfway between is my gun range. Dumped the POS P22 for the M&P 22 lr compact. How Blessed!!! I either do a range lunch or a 1/2 hr after work 3-4 times a week plus every other weekend to throw in a long rifle session. Really see improvement with my EDC Shield 9. As Aarond suggested, I think this is a good rimfire/centerfire combo. Yes in a half hour session I can casually, thoughtfully spend 40-60 rds 22lr and 32 rds of 9mm, with casual gun play in the eve winding down in front of the tube with the Shield dry firing. Happy with the accuracy and trigger control improvements.
Sometimes methinks that's excessive moderation, wife says NO, so I'll keep plugging along.

OhioGuy · October 4, 2016, 08:48 PM

I really like the M&P22 compact. My primary gun is a Springfield XD9 subcompact. The M&P seems similar enough to practice with.

I can find a full size XDM and full size M&P9 as airsoft guns. Are these realistic enough to do extended target practice at up to 30 yards?

849ACSO · October 5, 2016, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Yeah really! I would like to. However every range within an hour of me prohibits any reloaded ammo.

Seriously??!!

What a sham. That makes me boil just hearing it, much less being subjected to it.

g.willikers · October 5, 2016, 10:53 AM

The range closest to me does the same thing - no reloads.
It supposed to be a safety thing, but maybe not.
Their own ammo for sale is often factory reloads.
Might be a sales gimmick.

As for blow back air pistols, there's some that are so close to a .22 rimfire in every way, they are totally useful for home practice.
The ones I regularly use have a recoil about the same as my .22 autos and, at the distances available (7 to 10 yards) are also about as accurate.
True for all of them - airsoft, pellet and bb gun, with CO2 power.
Definitely look into them.
There's probably one just like your firearm.
The ones I have are so much like my "real" guns that I rarely even do dry fire anymore.
Trigger time is trigger time.

FITASC · October 5, 2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

What a sham. That makes me boil just hearing it

Until someone brings one of his "specials" and blows up his gun and/or hurts folks nearby. By the time the lawsuits are settled, the place is gone.

849ACSO · October 5, 2016, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Until someone brings one of his "specials" and blows up his gun and/or hurts folks nearby. By the time the lawsuits are settled, the place is gone.

It's a firing range. Enter at you own risk.

If the range is inadequate, that's one thing, but what other shooters do isn't necessarily the range owner's problem. Do they inspect the guns you bring too, to make sure they're safe to be fired, or can one roll in there with granddad's Damascus side by side and run smokeless shells through it unnoticed. Same difference.

g.willikers · October 5, 2016, 03:40 PM

We've become a nation of wimps and scaredy cats looking to blame others.
Common sense seemed to be more prevalent in an earlier age.
And walking into a gun show or gun shop with gun in hand wasn't cause for excitement or wire tying it.
Maybe folks used to be more in tune with their tools and understood how they worked a lot better.
Another reason to practice more and airguns do help with that.
My trusty airsoft 1911 works exactly like my real one and definitely helps keep me sharp about it between range days.
And my equally trusty Crosman CO2 pellet revolver keeps my double action revolver skills alive.

October 4, 2016, 02:20 PM	#1
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	Best "surrogate" for pistol training I've found a lot of realistic replica BB guns that cycle the slide and generally work the way real pistols would. I found a M&P replica at cabela that feels like the rea thing. Such a gun, for just about $100 and some cheap BB ammo, seems like it would afford a lot of cheap target practice. But is it realistic enough? I could also shoot at home, even in my garage or basement. My other thought was to get a .22lr pistol (probably also an M&P) for range use where I can get 2:1 advantage in ammo quantity for the cost vs 9mm. That's about a $360 investment in a gun. Or I could just shoot 9mm and look for ammo sales where I can and figure the cost of another gun is better spent on ammo or classes! In the future I'd like to take some tactical training where ammo needs are 500+ rounds in a day, and that's where I'd take the price savings of .22 much more seriously. Thoughts and experiences?

October 4, 2016, 03:19 PM	#6
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Look into airsoft. Many top pistol shooters train with airsoft. Mix that with dry-fire on your actual pistol and you will have the vast majority of what you can do without using live fire. When it comes to retention and takeaway drills, better to use a dummy gun, usually one without a trigger guard so you don't break fingers. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

October 5, 2016, 10:53 AM	#11
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The range closest to me does the same thing - no reloads. It supposed to be a safety thing, but maybe not. Their own ammo for sale is often factory reloads. Might be a sales gimmick. As for blow back air pistols, there's some that are so close to a .22 rimfire in every way, they are totally useful for home practice. The ones I regularly use have a recoil about the same as my .22 autos and, at the distances available (7 to 10 yards) are also about as accurate. True for all of them - airsoft, pellet and bb gun, with CO2 power. Definitely look into them. There's probably one just like your firearm. The ones I have are so much like my "real" guns that I rarely even do dry fire anymore. Trigger time is trigger time. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 5, 2016, 03:40 PM	#14
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	We've become a nation of wimps and scaredy cats looking to blame others. Common sense seemed to be more prevalent in an earlier age. And walking into a gun show or gun shop with gun in hand wasn't cause for excitement or wire tying it. Maybe folks used to be more in tune with their tools and understood how they worked a lot better. Another reason to practice more and airguns do help with that. My trusty airsoft 1911 works exactly like my real one and definitely helps keep me sharp about it between range days. And my equally trusty Crosman CO2 pellet revolver keeps my double action revolver skills alive. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; October 5, 2016 at 04:12 PM.

October 4, 2016, 02:26 PM	#2
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	With a pistol as long as you are not shooting at ranges that require elevating the sights I doubt it really matters. That being said there is some concern that cycling between too many substantially different firearms may influence muscle memory in the event of using one under stress

October 4, 2016, 05:46 PM	#8
gunnre Member Join Date: February 6, 2016 Posts: 83	Bored of semi retirement this summer I found myself a job 15 mins north up the Interstate. Halfway between is my gun range. Dumped the POS P22 for the M&P 22 lr compact. How Blessed!!! I either do a range lunch or a 1/2 hr after work 3-4 times a week plus every other weekend to throw in a long rifle session. Really see improvement with my EDC Shield 9. As Aarond suggested, I think this is a good rimfire/centerfire combo. Yes in a half hour session I can casually, thoughtfully spend 40-60 rds 22lr and 32 rds of 9mm, with casual gun play in the eve winding down in front of the tube with the Shield dry firing. Happy with the accuracy and trigger control improvements. Sometimes methinks that's excessive moderation, wife says NO, so I'll keep plugging along.

October 4, 2016, 08:48 PM	#9
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	I really like the M&P22 compact. My primary gun is a Springfield XD9 subcompact. The M&P seems similar enough to practice with. I can find a full size XDM and full size M&P9 as airsoft guns. Are these realistic enough to do extended target practice at up to 30 yards?